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Certainly one of my biggest pet peeves. If I had a nickel for everybody that got in my ear about "authentic" Mexican food and of course was talking about one pa

Certainly one of my biggest pet peeves. If I had a nickel for everybody that got in my ear about "authentic" Mexican food and of course was talking about one particular regional cuisine: Tex-Mex, Southwest American, Californian Mexican, Mexico City, . . . The search for authenticity in food is a weird obsession anyway since cuisine changes on contact with new ingredients.

taeric 9y ago
Completely agreed on the weird obsession that this is. I get wanting to have something you know, but I don't get dismissing the things you don't. Especially on some pseudo ranking based on "authenticity".
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  Seeking authenticity in cuisine is often about seeking to escape familiar uniformity, rather than avoiding the unfamiliar.
  - taeric 9y ago
    Not always. I'd wager it's more often elite signaling. Sometimes, though, is is just comfort. As an example, the donuts from New Orleans are easy to make at home. Ish. I have yet to have them elsewhere be the same. I'll probably call the ones I do authentic, but I confess it is just to my tastes.
kerkeslager 9y ago
There are tons of examples of this in Japanese food. A friend who spent most of a year in Japan said that they love sauerkraut over there because it has the sour, fermented taste that's emblematic of some of their fine cuisine. Corn (native to North America) is a common topper for ramen. Many Japanese broths and sauces now integrate peanuts (also native to North America).
- PakG1 9y ago
  And how about cheese fondue in South Korea! :) Though apparently they've been making their own cheese since 1959, so at what point may it be considered part of their culture? https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/22701/when-did-cheese-enter-the-korean-diet https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/22701/when-did-c...
- Isamu 9y ago
  Curry is a huge comfort food in Japan. You see it in every anime. They reportedly got it from the British Navy, and it has evolved into something distinctively Japanese. The British of course brought it from India. Japanese curry is sweeter, and has cocoa in it.
  - jordigh 9y ago
    Japanese curry sounds a bit like Pueblan mole! Delicious! :9
    - djrogers 9y ago
      Nope, they're very different flavor profiles. Japanese curries may contain cocoa, but they don't highlight it - it's very much a background flavor.
    - Isamu 9y ago
      Super easy to make - look for "Golden Curry" in most Asian groceries. You will likely see more kinds in a Japanese grocery. Get some good rice while you are at it. My daughter remarked that you can apparently put any random vegetables in Japanese curry and it still tastes awesome.
      - kibwen 9y ago
        Second the recommendation for Golden Curry, it's a staple of my cabinet. And it's not just Asian food stores, I've found it in the "International" sections of small-name grocers, chain grocers, and even in the Wal-Mart of the podunk Appalachian town where I went to college. I also buy it in bulk from Amazon when I need to pad out my order to get the free shipping. Highly recommend.
vanderZwan 9y ago
When I was an exchange student I had a Mexican friend from Puebla and one from... some small place near the north of Mexico, forgot which one. They cannot see eye-to-eye over whether burritos are "real" Mexican food. Obviously, being the good friend I am, I liked to poke and prod this.
- umanwizard 9y ago
  To resolve the debate: I've been to Mexico dozens of times and burritos are very popular among the locals of the places I've been to. Burritos are Sonoran food and Sonora is part of Mexico.
  - lazyasciiart 9y ago
    How do you think "I've been to Mexico" is going to make your answer authoritative to the two people having the debate, given they are both Mexican?
    - umanwizard 9y ago
      What makes you think people from a country know everything about every part of their own country, especially one as large and culturally diverse as Mexico? Sometimes outsiders can know something they don't. Many Americans might not have heard of "crawfish étouffé" and therefore assume it's not American food. A foreign tourist who has visited New Orleans could (quite authoritatively) correct them. Btw, I'd be willing to bet that I have more contact with people from Sonora than the typical person from Puebla has.
      - DoreenMichele 9y ago
        The foreign tourist might happen to be correct this one time, but "I'm a tourist who has been there" is not anything I have ever heard gives one power to be quite authoritative. Visiting one or more times is not remotely on par with "I have a PhD in the subject."
kalcode 9y ago
People are always taken back about how much classic staples didn't exist prior to the discovery of America. On top of that realization is that the food wasn't adopted immediately. Meaning a lot of common dishes didn't exist until after 1700/1800s. Things like tomato sauce and pasta in italian cuisine wasn't until almost 1800. Yet we talk about 'authentic' cuisine we usually use it in context way before 'America'. Yet most cuisine we eat didn't come into existence until AFTER America. Another example is chilis in thai cuisine. Capsicum didn't make it over the ocean until america was discovered. So all the spicy peppers in so many dishes from Thai to Vietnamese food didn't exist in their cooking until it was brought over and eventually incorporated. Potatoes is another one. Originated in Peru. Russian potato vodka? Irish Potatoes? Germans bangers and mash? Nope, nada until America was discovered. Chocolate, Vanilla. Staples of desserts of european cooking...except not until America was discovered. These above ingredients alone are associated with so many traditional recipes but they didn't exist until recently. It really shows how quickly food and traditions change and the idea of 'authenticity' is over blown.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > People are always taken back about how much classic staples didn't exist prior to the discovery of America. > Yet we talk about 'authentic' cuisine we usually use it in context way before 'America'. I can pretty much guarantee that's not true of discussion of authentic cuisine of the Mexican or Tex-Mex varieties, since “Mexico” and “Texas” are both post-Millenial identities, and both identities of the Americas. Sure, it might apply to some views of authenticity of European, Asian, or African cuisines (and if by “America” you actually mean the “European colonization of America”, which some parts of your comment suggest, it might apply to similar views of authenticity of Native American, including Inuit, Aztec, Inca, etc. cuisine. But, even where it might apply, I don't think that is what people usually mean by authenticity; they mostly mean before changes made to support mass commercial distribution or production, and without adaptation to ingredients they are locally cheaper or more popular in places outside of the place where the cuisine originates. (In America, that concern might often be phrased as “before Americanization”, but that's not “before any impacts of the discovery of America”.)
  - 9y ago
valuearb 9y ago
Agreed. Moved to Phoenix from Portland, Oregon and I love Mexican and Tex-Mex. But all the Mexican I've tried here is just good, not great, family style mexican. The closest place to great food is the TeePee, which is about as unassuming as a restaurant can get. The fancier places just crank up the spiciness to uncomfortable levels. The best mexican?/tex-mex? I've ever had is still Chez Jose in Portland, Oregon. I'm really not sure how it's classified, other than awesome. Every trip back we eat there almost every day.
- stoolpigeon 9y ago
  Or could it be that you just prefer what you got at home? I grew up in Phoenix and love going back for the amazing Mexican food. From more established places like Los Dos Molinos to the little out of the way dives, there is no way you can convince me that Phoenix doesn't have good Mexican food. Tex-Mex I don't care about but I've spent plenty of time in Mexico too and Phoenix has great Mexican.
  - dwc 9y ago
    Also note that Los Dos bills itself as New Mexican cuisine (meaning from New Mexico, not Neo-Mexican). At least they used to. I haven't been there in years, though I love it.
    - batbomb 9y ago
      To be fair, Arizona used to be part of New Mexico
      - kgwgk 9y ago
        And New Mexico used to be part of Mexico.
        SiVal 9y ago
        And Mexico used to be part of the Spanish Empire, and Spain...
brandonmenc 9y ago
I feel this. Growing up Italian-American, with relatives who came off the boat cooking things for me, then having a 'merican who did a semester abroad in a single city in Italy tell me the way I cook isn't "authentic."
- galdosdi 9y ago
  Ha! I've had the same experience many times as a Mexican American. Usually with Texans and Californians who visit NYC, try say, some actually authentic mexican tacos, and pronounce them lame and "inauthentic" because they do not resemble americanized texmex they grew up on. Like, what? I'd understand the complaint if we'd gone to a place advertised as texmex. I guess the annoying thing is they misleadingly refer to texmex food as "mexican" which it is not. It is a separate (and also tasty) cuisine that relies on different traditions and ingredients, eg flour instead of corn tortillas. Food is all great, but lets not use confusing terms
solatic 9y ago
Just to echo on the search for authenticity, many places in the US will serve food at a higher level of quality than many places in the country of origin. Abroad, the food comes under the same economic pressure as anything else, and most of what is available cheaply will be mass-produced somewhere and sold out to people who are eking out a living reselling it to consumers. The difference in the country of the origin is that the local industrialized production of the ingredients will make the product cheaper compared to US restaurant prices, and it will be available more widely than the one or two restaurants in the US city who make the food, but it's definitely not as high quality as the US restauranteurs who need to make more of the ingredients from scratch. It's one thing to object to food being sold as a certain style when that style would never include some of the ingredients that are being included, but it's well more important to just make delicious food.
- nostalgeek 9y ago
  > Just to echo on the search for authenticity, many places in the US will serve food at a higher level of quality than many places in the country of origin. Pretty sure it applies neither for French or Italian cuisine.
  - mywittyname 9y ago
    In his biography, Jacque Pepin (famous French chef) talked about how much better the food quality was in the US compared to his native France. He found American supermarket had amazing produce quality compared to the markets in France, where most of the good produce was reserved for elite chefs, leaving the rest of the people to settle for the scraps.
    - nostalgeek 9y ago
      > In his biography, Jacque Pepin (famous French chef) talked about how much better the food quality was in the US compared to his native France. He found American supermarket had amazing produce quality compared to the markets in France, where most of the good produce was reserved for elite chefs, leaving the rest of the people to settle for the scraps. You mean the food quality at Walmart is superior to the the quality of the food you can find in a french organic market? the quality of milks? cheeses? wheat and meats is automatically superior in US? I know Jacque Pepin. I also know the food you can find in US markets is disgusting and low quality when compared to foods for the same price in France. There is a reason why US has an obesity crisis as sever as it is.
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clairity 9y ago
i think it's the crap-ton of processed cheese and beans in many tex-mex dishes that tarnishes it's authenticity. (the long and rambling article mentions this, but i didn't have the patience to figure out what they really thought it was.) i like a good breakfast taco but i'm not generally a fan of most tex-mex. it hits you over the head with lard, carbs and over-cooked meats with no balance to it at all.
- mcguire 9y ago
  Beans, along with maize ("corn") and squash, are staples in pre-Columbian America.
  - vram22 9y ago
    Yes, I read somewhere (Wikipedia probably) that they are called the Three Sisters. They are symbiotic to some extent. The beans, being legumes, do nitrogen fixation in the soil, which benefits the other plants, and the beans grow up and twine around the maize stalks (at least for the creeper kinds of beans).
- bluedino 9y ago
  Beans tarnish the authenticity? It's all about beans. My father was a migrant worker, they came from Mexico to Texas and then whatever state they could find work in. All they ate was beans and tortillas, that's all they could afford.
  - clairity 9y ago
    yes, i was referring to the processed, refried beans that come out of a can (from sysco and the like) used in many restaurants. of course folks eat beans and grains--my fave street taco stand makes their own tortillas and they're great!
  - DoreenMichele 9y ago
    processed cheese and beans Shortened version of processed cheese and processed beans. The adjective processed applies to both of the nouns, though it is easy to interpret it otherwise. It's like saying "The problem is the junk food versions of these foods."
olso4052 9y ago
It might just be a slightly mislabeled desire for new/good food. People probably say "authentic" when what they mean is "something different from what I've been getting in my hometown for the last 20 years". And they probably say "authentic" when they really just want quality preparation and ingredients. Quick, cheap American interpretations of ethnic food has become synonymous with inauthenticity, but obviously that's not always the case. idk, I get what you are saying, it's a bit of an empty cliche, but at the same time, I think there are interesting things people are trying to ask for, just using the wrong words
mcguire 9y ago
I had a friend once who complained about the baby corn in Chinese food not being authentic. I just looked at him. That's like complaining about tomatoes in Italian cooking.
- steve_adams_86 9y ago
  Also what the hell, those little corns are great! I don't care where they came from.
  - bshepard 9y ago
    No way, those baby corns are "objectively" a culinary nightmare.
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derefr 9y ago
Most people who speak of “authenticity” don’t really want “authentic” Mexican food”; what they’re really after is food with a clear regional provenance. They want food with a cultural narrative behind it, where that narrative doesn’t feature their own culture as one of the characters.
- JackMorgan 9y ago
  Having grown up in Costa Rica, and having worked as a tour guide in Mexico - this is extremely true. People love the idea of authentic Costa Rican food, but for me growing up that meant beans and rice 5 dinners a week. It sounds fun and authentic - for meal one...
  - wnissen 9y ago
    No one wants "real" food, that is for sure. We always try to stay and shop in residential neighborhoods when we travel, and if you look at what people have in their baskets, it is pretty boring. I would have gone insane in Puerto Rico eating mofongo (fried plantains, but very starchy) every day of the week, or beans and rice with plain tortillas in Mexico. Or dal (lentils) in India. But a lot of that is relative income, so I think it's more what people would eat if they could afford it. I just heard from a southern Indian colleague of mine that basmati rice is considered "too heavy" for daily consumption and is saved for special occasions. Most of the real highlight dishes in any cuisine are for feast meals, it seems.
colordrops 9y ago
I think people typically mean traditional when they say authentic.
code_duck 9y ago
I moved to northern Minnesota and found that the Mexican food was generally low quality. Not only the recipes and style, but especially preparation, ingredients, presentation, quality standards and just about everything. However when I mentioned this to people there they would immediately say something like “I know it’s not -authentic-, but...”. However my point was that average sit-down family restaurants served food that more resembled a TV dinner or fast food place’s meals, which is not really related to authenticity.
marzell 9y ago
Coming from NorCal, everyone seems to think they are an expert on what 'authentic' Mexican food is, even if they've never been there or only to a resort. There's also a strong tendency toward fetishism of truly crappy food, which people cutely term 'simple' or 'rustic' but which often is in fact poorly prepared and overly salted and made from the cheapest of ingredients. It's a shame, because these people seem to be unaware of how large a country Mexico is, with myriad cultural influences and traditions, regional variations, and a vibrant modern food culture, especially in regards to Mexico City. The taco truck under the BART tracks in Oakland with the $6 heart-attack (and heart-burn) burritos doesn't serve traditional/authentic Mexican food, it serves traditional Cali/NorCal Taco Truck food. If you love it, that's great, but honor it by celebrating what it really is, which is a separate food tradition that is wonderful in it's own way.
- sbussard 9y ago
  > which often is in fact poorly prepared and overly salted and made from the cheapest of ingredients. Like Chico's Tacos! > It's a shame, because these people seem to be unaware of how large a country Mexico is, with myriad cultural influences and traditions, regional variations, and a vibrant modern food culture, especially in regards to Mexico City. Fact! I prefer the style of cuisine that comes from the Chihuahuan desert.
ryanmarsh 9y ago
I had a nickel for everybody that got in my ear about "authentic" Mexican food I liken this obsession with simulacra[0]. People looking for an original of something that never existed. “Greek” or “Mediterranean” food in the US is like this too. Although nothing beats Tex-Mex, fight me. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation
wutbrodo 9y ago
> The search for authenticity in food is a weird obsession anyway since cuisine changes on contact with new ingredients. I strongly disagree; it can be pretty useful in certain contexts. Namely, on contact with US/Western market demand, a lot of cuisines get blander, sweeter, less complex, and sometimes heavier. (The history behind this is pretty interesting, and if you'd like i can pull up a source on this). For those whose palate is used to more flavor and complexity than the Western palate, the difference between the Americanized form of a cuisine and the "authentic" version can be pretty substantial. The latter can be preferred for either reasons of taste or reasons of variety (the difference between American Chinese and American Thai is far tinier than the difference between a given regional Chinese cuisine and a given regional Thai cuisine). Note that this is probably the case in every country: I was born and raised in the US, and I remember finding McDonald's to be pretty bizarre when I'd visit India, because the flavors had been modified to fit the local palate so heavily (this was about 20yrs ago; I gather that the menu has changed a lot since). This isn't a search for authenticity per se, which as you say, is pretty much meaningless. It's just an attempt to avoid the flattening of every cuisine into a similar spectrum of flavors. Unfortunately, restaurants only exist if there's enough demand for them, so food with flavors outside of the country's palate are hard to sustain unless there's an ethnic enclave nearby that can support an "authentic" place.
- weeksie 9y ago
  I get what you're saying but the same is true of any transplanted cuisine. Thai food in Australia is different than in the US is different from wherever but in most cases it's a lot closer than you're giving credit for—which is neither here nor there since a cuisine being a "lot closer" is arbitrary, closer to where? Isan? The south? And of course you get some places like Uncle Boon's in NY that do a tremendous job of recreating Thai street food but wrap it up in a lot of cuisine. I can promise that Uncle Boon's is not frequented by FOB Thai immigrants, but I doubt the menu will lose its flavor profile. As an aside, the "more flavor and complexity than the western palate" stuff is another of those things I have a bit of a problem with. Yeah, American food in some (most) parts of the country is bland but Mexican food (for example) is American, at least if California, Texas, New Mexico are still part of the country. Add BBQ, Cajun, and other regional cuisines and American food has its own complexity. Standard diner fare is pretty bleak but so is street cart pad thai after the thousandth time you've had it. Besides if we're talking about the western palate we're including all of Europe in that, with an incredible diversity of cuisines and tastes.
ChuckMcM 9y ago
Seriously, when is the last time you ate at a good restaurant serving Canadian food. :-) On a more serious note, one of the interesting things about the IBM Watson Cookbook was looking at food not by region but by k-means clustering around a set of spice vectors. It really drove home for me the notion that 'regional' food really was more about the reliable availability of certain flavors and spices than it was around culture or people.
mwfunk 9y ago
Agreed. Whenever I hear people use authenticity as a litmus test for good food, it always comes across as being snobby for the sake of being snobby. Not only is authenticity in food a very fuzzy concept, but it really has nothing to do with quality (it may even suggest lower quality). It's like saying that something that's popular must be bad, or that something that's expensive must be good. I mean, if you're a connoisseur of something, then you inevitably end up learning about the more authentic, less well-known, more exclusive versions of that thing. But saying that those are defining qualities of anything is BS, and only reveals the degree to which someone is a connoisseur because they actually appreciate something, vs. it's just part of the personal image they want to project to other people.
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taeric 9y ago

Completely agreed on the weird obsession that this is. I get wanting to have something you know, but I don't get dismissing the things you don't. Especially on some pseudo ranking based on "authenticity".

dragonwriter 9y ago
Seeking authenticity in cuisine is often about seeking to escape familiar uniformity, rather than avoiding the unfamiliar.
- taeric 9y ago
  Not always. I'd wager it's more often elite signaling. Sometimes, though, is is just comfort. As an example, the donuts from New Orleans are easy to make at home. Ish. I have yet to have them elsewhere be the same. I'll probably call the ones I do authentic, but I confess it is just to my tastes.

kerkeslager 9y ago

There are tons of examples of this in Japanese food. A friend who spent most of a year in Japan said that they love sauerkraut over there because it has the sour, fermented taste that's emblematic of some of their fine cuisine. Corn (native to North America) is a common topper for ramen. Many Japanese broths and sauces now integrate peanuts (also native to North America).

PakG1 9y ago
And how about cheese fondue in South Korea! :) Though apparently they've been making their own cheese since 1959, so at what point may it be considered part of their culture? https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/22701/when-did-cheese-enter-the-korean-diet https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/22701/when-did-c...
Isamu 9y ago
Curry is a huge comfort food in Japan. You see it in every anime. They reportedly got it from the British Navy, and it has evolved into something distinctively Japanese. The British of course brought it from India. Japanese curry is sweeter, and has cocoa in it.
- jordigh 9y ago
  Japanese curry sounds a bit like Pueblan mole! Delicious! :9
  - djrogers 9y ago
    Nope, they're very different flavor profiles. Japanese curries may contain cocoa, but they don't highlight it - it's very much a background flavor.
  - Isamu 9y ago
    Super easy to make - look for "Golden Curry" in most Asian groceries. You will likely see more kinds in a Japanese grocery. Get some good rice while you are at it. My daughter remarked that you can apparently put any random vegetables in Japanese curry and it still tastes awesome.
    - kibwen 9y ago
      Second the recommendation for Golden Curry, it's a staple of my cabinet. And it's not just Asian food stores, I've found it in the "International" sections of small-name grocers, chain grocers, and even in the Wal-Mart of the podunk Appalachian town where I went to college. I also buy it in bulk from Amazon when I need to pad out my order to get the free shipping. Highly recommend.

vanderZwan 9y ago

When I was an exchange student I had a Mexican friend from Puebla and one from... some small place near the north of Mexico, forgot which one. They cannot see eye-to-eye over whether burritos are "real" Mexican food. Obviously, being the good friend I am, I liked to poke and prod this.

umanwizard 9y ago
To resolve the debate: I've been to Mexico dozens of times and burritos are very popular among the locals of the places I've been to. Burritos are Sonoran food and Sonora is part of Mexico.
- lazyasciiart 9y ago
  How do you think "I've been to Mexico" is going to make your answer authoritative to the two people having the debate, given they are both Mexican?
  - umanwizard 9y ago
    What makes you think people from a country know everything about every part of their own country, especially one as large and culturally diverse as Mexico? Sometimes outsiders can know something they don't. Many Americans might not have heard of "crawfish étouffé" and therefore assume it's not American food. A foreign tourist who has visited New Orleans could (quite authoritatively) correct them. Btw, I'd be willing to bet that I have more contact with people from Sonora than the typical person from Puebla has.
    - DoreenMichele 9y ago
      The foreign tourist might happen to be correct this one time, but "I'm a tourist who has been there" is not anything I have ever heard gives one power to be quite authoritative. Visiting one or more times is not remotely on par with "I have a PhD in the subject."

kalcode 9y ago

People are always taken back about how much classic staples didn't exist prior to the discovery of America. On top of that realization is that the food wasn't adopted immediately. Meaning a lot of common dishes didn't exist until after 1700/1800s. Things like tomato sauce and pasta in italian cuisine wasn't until almost 1800. Yet we talk about 'authentic' cuisine we usually use it in context way before 'America'. Yet most cuisine we eat didn't come into existence until AFTER America. Another example is chilis in thai cuisine. Capsicum didn't make it over the ocean until america was discovered. So all the spicy peppers in so many dishes from Thai to Vietnamese food didn't exist in their cooking until it was brought over and eventually incorporated. Potatoes is another one. Originated in Peru. Russian potato vodka? Irish Potatoes? Germans bangers and mash? Nope, nada until America was discovered. Chocolate, Vanilla. Staples of desserts of european cooking...except not until America was discovered. These above ingredients alone are associated with so many traditional recipes but they didn't exist until recently. It really shows how quickly food and traditions change and the idea of 'authenticity' is over blown.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> People are always taken back about how much classic staples didn't exist prior to the discovery of America. > Yet we talk about 'authentic' cuisine we usually use it in context way before 'America'. I can pretty much guarantee that's not true of discussion of authentic cuisine of the Mexican or Tex-Mex varieties, since “Mexico” and “Texas” are both post-Millenial identities, and both identities of the Americas. Sure, it might apply to some views of authenticity of European, Asian, or African cuisines (and if by “America” you actually mean the “European colonization of America”, which some parts of your comment suggest, it might apply to similar views of authenticity of Native American, including Inuit, Aztec, Inca, etc. cuisine. But, even where it might apply, I don't think that is what people usually mean by authenticity; they mostly mean before changes made to support mass commercial distribution or production, and without adaptation to ingredients they are locally cheaper or more popular in places outside of the place where the cuisine originates. (In America, that concern might often be phrased as “before Americanization”, but that's not “before any impacts of the discovery of America”.)
- 9y ago

valuearb 9y ago

Agreed. Moved to Phoenix from Portland, Oregon and I love Mexican and Tex-Mex. But all the Mexican I've tried here is just good, not great, family style mexican. The closest place to great food is the TeePee, which is about as unassuming as a restaurant can get. The fancier places just crank up the spiciness to uncomfortable levels. The best mexican?/tex-mex? I've ever had is still Chez Jose in Portland, Oregon. I'm really not sure how it's classified, other than awesome. Every trip back we eat there almost every day.

stoolpigeon 9y ago
Or could it be that you just prefer what you got at home? I grew up in Phoenix and love going back for the amazing Mexican food. From more established places like Los Dos Molinos to the little out of the way dives, there is no way you can convince me that Phoenix doesn't have good Mexican food. Tex-Mex I don't care about but I've spent plenty of time in Mexico too and Phoenix has great Mexican.
- dwc 9y ago
  Also note that Los Dos bills itself as New Mexican cuisine (meaning from New Mexico, not Neo-Mexican). At least they used to. I haven't been there in years, though I love it.
  - batbomb 9y ago
    To be fair, Arizona used to be part of New Mexico
    - kgwgk 9y ago
      And New Mexico used to be part of Mexico.
      - SiVal 9y ago
        And Mexico used to be part of the Spanish Empire, and Spain...

brandonmenc 9y ago

I feel this. Growing up Italian-American, with relatives who came off the boat cooking things for me, then having a 'merican who did a semester abroad in a single city in Italy tell me the way I cook isn't "authentic."

galdosdi 9y ago
Ha! I've had the same experience many times as a Mexican American. Usually with Texans and Californians who visit NYC, try say, some actually authentic mexican tacos, and pronounce them lame and "inauthentic" because they do not resemble americanized texmex they grew up on. Like, what? I'd understand the complaint if we'd gone to a place advertised as texmex. I guess the annoying thing is they misleadingly refer to texmex food as "mexican" which it is not. It is a separate (and also tasty) cuisine that relies on different traditions and ingredients, eg flour instead of corn tortillas. Food is all great, but lets not use confusing terms

solatic 9y ago

Just to echo on the search for authenticity, many places in the US will serve food at a higher level of quality than many places in the country of origin. Abroad, the food comes under the same economic pressure as anything else, and most of what is available cheaply will be mass-produced somewhere and sold out to people who are eking out a living reselling it to consumers. The difference in the country of the origin is that the local industrialized production of the ingredients will make the product cheaper compared to US restaurant prices, and it will be available more widely than the one or two restaurants in the US city who make the food, but it's definitely not as high quality as the US restauranteurs who need to make more of the ingredients from scratch. It's one thing to object to food being sold as a certain style when that style would never include some of the ingredients that are being included, but it's well more important to just make delicious food.

nostalgeek 9y ago
> Just to echo on the search for authenticity, many places in the US will serve food at a higher level of quality than many places in the country of origin. Pretty sure it applies neither for French or Italian cuisine.
- mywittyname 9y ago
  In his biography, Jacque Pepin (famous French chef) talked about how much better the food quality was in the US compared to his native France. He found American supermarket had amazing produce quality compared to the markets in France, where most of the good produce was reserved for elite chefs, leaving the rest of the people to settle for the scraps.
  - nostalgeek 9y ago
    > In his biography, Jacque Pepin (famous French chef) talked about how much better the food quality was in the US compared to his native France. He found American supermarket had amazing produce quality compared to the markets in France, where most of the good produce was reserved for elite chefs, leaving the rest of the people to settle for the scraps. You mean the food quality at Walmart is superior to the the quality of the food you can find in a french organic market? the quality of milks? cheeses? wheat and meats is automatically superior in US? I know Jacque Pepin. I also know the food you can find in US markets is disgusting and low quality when compared to foods for the same price in France. There is a reason why US has an obesity crisis as sever as it is.

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clairity 9y ago

i think it's the crap-ton of processed cheese and beans in many tex-mex dishes that tarnishes it's authenticity. (the long and rambling article mentions this, but i didn't have the patience to figure out what they really thought it was.) i like a good breakfast taco but i'm not generally a fan of most tex-mex. it hits you over the head with lard, carbs and over-cooked meats with no balance to it at all.

mcguire 9y ago
Beans, along with maize ("corn") and squash, are staples in pre-Columbian America.
- vram22 9y ago
  Yes, I read somewhere (Wikipedia probably) that they are called the Three Sisters. They are symbiotic to some extent. The beans, being legumes, do nitrogen fixation in the soil, which benefits the other plants, and the beans grow up and twine around the maize stalks (at least for the creeper kinds of beans).
bluedino 9y ago
Beans tarnish the authenticity? It's all about beans. My father was a migrant worker, they came from Mexico to Texas and then whatever state they could find work in. All they ate was beans and tortillas, that's all they could afford.
- clairity 9y ago
  yes, i was referring to the processed, refried beans that come out of a can (from sysco and the like) used in many restaurants. of course folks eat beans and grains--my fave street taco stand makes their own tortillas and they're great!
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  processed cheese and beans Shortened version of processed cheese and processed beans. The adjective processed applies to both of the nouns, though it is easy to interpret it otherwise. It's like saying "The problem is the junk food versions of these foods."

olso4052 9y ago

It might just be a slightly mislabeled desire for new/good food. People probably say "authentic" when what they mean is "something different from what I've been getting in my hometown for the last 20 years". And they probably say "authentic" when they really just want quality preparation and ingredients. Quick, cheap American interpretations of ethnic food has become synonymous with inauthenticity, but obviously that's not always the case. idk, I get what you are saying, it's a bit of an empty cliche, but at the same time, I think there are interesting things people are trying to ask for, just using the wrong words

mcguire 9y ago

I had a friend once who complained about the baby corn in Chinese food not being authentic. I just looked at him. That's like complaining about tomatoes in Italian cooking.

steve_adams_86 9y ago
Also what the hell, those little corns are great! I don't care where they came from.
- bshepard 9y ago
  No way, those baby corns are "objectively" a culinary nightmare.

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derefr 9y ago

Most people who speak of “authenticity” don’t really want “authentic” Mexican food”; what they’re really after is food with a clear regional provenance. They want food with a cultural narrative behind it, where that narrative doesn’t feature their own culture as one of the characters.

JackMorgan 9y ago
Having grown up in Costa Rica, and having worked as a tour guide in Mexico - this is extremely true. People love the idea of authentic Costa Rican food, but for me growing up that meant beans and rice 5 dinners a week. It sounds fun and authentic - for meal one...
- wnissen 9y ago
  No one wants "real" food, that is for sure. We always try to stay and shop in residential neighborhoods when we travel, and if you look at what people have in their baskets, it is pretty boring. I would have gone insane in Puerto Rico eating mofongo (fried plantains, but very starchy) every day of the week, or beans and rice with plain tortillas in Mexico. Or dal (lentils) in India. But a lot of that is relative income, so I think it's more what people would eat if they could afford it. I just heard from a southern Indian colleague of mine that basmati rice is considered "too heavy" for daily consumption and is saved for special occasions. Most of the real highlight dishes in any cuisine are for feast meals, it seems.

colordrops 9y ago

I think people typically mean traditional when they say authentic.

code_duck 9y ago

I moved to northern Minnesota and found that the Mexican food was generally low quality. Not only the recipes and style, but especially preparation, ingredients, presentation, quality standards and just about everything. However when I mentioned this to people there they would immediately say something like “I know it’s not -authentic-, but...”. However my point was that average sit-down family restaurants served food that more resembled a TV dinner or fast food place’s meals, which is not really related to authenticity.

marzell 9y ago

Coming from NorCal, everyone seems to think they are an expert on what 'authentic' Mexican food is, even if they've never been there or only to a resort. There's also a strong tendency toward fetishism of truly crappy food, which people cutely term 'simple' or 'rustic' but which often is in fact poorly prepared and overly salted and made from the cheapest of ingredients. It's a shame, because these people seem to be unaware of how large a country Mexico is, with myriad cultural influences and traditions, regional variations, and a vibrant modern food culture, especially in regards to Mexico City. The taco truck under the BART tracks in Oakland with the $6 heart-attack (and heart-burn) burritos doesn't serve traditional/authentic Mexican food, it serves traditional Cali/NorCal Taco Truck food. If you love it, that's great, but honor it by celebrating what it really is, which is a separate food tradition that is wonderful in it's own way.

sbussard 9y ago
> which often is in fact poorly prepared and overly salted and made from the cheapest of ingredients. Like Chico's Tacos! > It's a shame, because these people seem to be unaware of how large a country Mexico is, with myriad cultural influences and traditions, regional variations, and a vibrant modern food culture, especially in regards to Mexico City. Fact! I prefer the style of cuisine that comes from the Chihuahuan desert.

ryanmarsh 9y ago

I had a nickel for everybody that got in my ear about "authentic" Mexican food I liken this obsession with simulacra[0]. People looking for an original of something that never existed. “Greek” or “Mediterranean” food in the US is like this too. Although nothing beats Tex-Mex, fight me. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation

wutbrodo 9y ago

> The search for authenticity in food is a weird obsession anyway since cuisine changes on contact with new ingredients. I strongly disagree; it can be pretty useful in certain contexts. Namely, on contact with US/Western market demand, a lot of cuisines get blander, sweeter, less complex, and sometimes heavier. (The history behind this is pretty interesting, and if you'd like i can pull up a source on this). For those whose palate is used to more flavor and complexity than the Western palate, the difference between the Americanized form of a cuisine and the "authentic" version can be pretty substantial. The latter can be preferred for either reasons of taste or reasons of variety (the difference between American Chinese and American Thai is far tinier than the difference between a given regional Chinese cuisine and a given regional Thai cuisine). Note that this is probably the case in every country: I was born and raised in the US, and I remember finding McDonald's to be pretty bizarre when I'd visit India, because the flavors had been modified to fit the local palate so heavily (this was about 20yrs ago; I gather that the menu has changed a lot since). This isn't a search for authenticity per se, which as you say, is pretty much meaningless. It's just an attempt to avoid the flattening of every cuisine into a similar spectrum of flavors. Unfortunately, restaurants only exist if there's enough demand for them, so food with flavors outside of the country's palate are hard to sustain unless there's an ethnic enclave nearby that can support an "authentic" place.

weeksie 9y ago
I get what you're saying but the same is true of any transplanted cuisine. Thai food in Australia is different than in the US is different from wherever but in most cases it's a lot closer than you're giving credit for—which is neither here nor there since a cuisine being a "lot closer" is arbitrary, closer to where? Isan? The south? And of course you get some places like Uncle Boon's in NY that do a tremendous job of recreating Thai street food but wrap it up in a lot of cuisine. I can promise that Uncle Boon's is not frequented by FOB Thai immigrants, but I doubt the menu will lose its flavor profile. As an aside, the "more flavor and complexity than the western palate" stuff is another of those things I have a bit of a problem with. Yeah, American food in some (most) parts of the country is bland but Mexican food (for example) is American, at least if California, Texas, New Mexico are still part of the country. Add BBQ, Cajun, and other regional cuisines and American food has its own complexity. Standard diner fare is pretty bleak but so is street cart pad thai after the thousandth time you've had it. Besides if we're talking about the western palate we're including all of Europe in that, with an incredible diversity of cuisines and tastes.

ChuckMcM 9y ago

Seriously, when is the last time you ate at a good restaurant serving Canadian food. :-) On a more serious note, one of the interesting things about the IBM Watson Cookbook was looking at food not by region but by k-means clustering around a set of spice vectors. It really drove home for me the notion that 'regional' food really was more about the reliable availability of certain flavors and spices than it was around culture or people.

mwfunk 9y ago

Agreed. Whenever I hear people use authenticity as a litmus test for good food, it always comes across as being snobby for the sake of being snobby. Not only is authenticity in food a very fuzzy concept, but it really has nothing to do with quality (it may even suggest lower quality). It's like saying that something that's popular must be bad, or that something that's expensive must be good. I mean, if you're a connoisseur of something, then you inevitably end up learning about the more authentic, less well-known, more exclusive versions of that thing. But saying that those are defining qualities of anything is BS, and only reveals the degree to which someone is a connoisseur because they actually appreciate something, vs. it's just part of the personal image they want to project to other people.

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