4 ms·

General population don't practice ramming car into crowd. Those are not hobbies. So, when mentally ill people want to cause harm they don't use those methods. I

General population don't practice ramming car into crowd. Those are not hobbies. So, when mentally ill people want to cause harm they don't use those methods. It does not normally comes to mind. But, shooting is common. It's a hobby. A killing machine is normalized and it becomes a culture. So, those mentally ill men feels completely normal to shoot people when they go crazy. Consider this: ramming car into objects becomes a hobby and people starts to do that and take pride in it. They practice it every week. Then, those mentally ills will start using those methods. And then government will ban riding a car. But, this is not happening, just a hypothesis. You can replace car with other objects you can think of here. That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA. There are mentally ill people everywhere, not just in USA. This is the point gun lovers don't understand.

lettergram 9y ago
> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA. First I beg to differ- compare the EU to the U.S. or the U.S. to India, or to China for that matter or the U.S. to Brazil. Not just "countries". The US is one of the largest countries on Earth (by population and landmass), with one of the most diverse sets of population... It's really hard to even find a comparison. And I can tell you've never used a gun, it's not really something you go - "yeah let's kill people for fun today". Most of the cases (literally all the ones I know of) do it for revenge, or how they feel about themselves, don't really think a hobby is playing into it - more likely it's that when guns are used we plaster their names all over every media outlet.
- aaron-lebo 9y ago
  Confused with your statement. Do you mean to suggest that India and Brazil aren't large countries with diverse and large populations? The same with the EU (though not a single country). The comparison isn't favorable to the US.
  - lettergram 9y ago
    I'm saying look at the mass murder rates at countries of that scale. And that's even with a fairly uniform population, when you get to the U.S. you have a large, disperse group, with various ideologies, incentives, etc. Often this makes people feel isolated or ostracized, because they don't fit in or are being out down. Then you get mass murder or murder in general, because I you don't relate. Basically, you have no incentive to care for one another.
    - birksherty 9y ago
      No, USA is not the only country where different groups of people live and feel isolated. India have more diverse groups of people than anywhere else. Language, culture, cast, religion, economy. It's divide from every possible way. Lot of those groups hate each other. Many of them have lower status in society. And millions of people there have mental issues. People don't give shit about mental health there. If guns become normal there, it would be catastrophic.
- birksherty 9y ago
  > it's not really something you go - "yeah let's kill people for fun today" I never said people kill for fun. When mass shooting happens, using gun feels normal. Because they have been using that weapon (gun) like it's supposed to (shooting practices and hunting) for a long time.
- mcintyre1994 9y ago
  Your mass shooters are plastered over every media outlet in other countries too, so that doesn't fully explain it either.
  - CompanionCuuube 9y ago
    Why do they do this? The reason we can't restrict the publicity being offered to mass shooters in the US is due to the first amendment. Those other countries don't have such restrictions. Why are they being complicit in creating copycats?
humanrebar 9y ago
> There are mentally ill people everywhere, not just in USA. This is the point gun lovers don't understand. I want to understand why we're taking another attempt at the sisyphean task of banning guns when less controversial mental healthcare reform is ripe for discussion. In the case of the Parkland shooter, everyone knew the killer was dangerous, but there was no reasonable mechanism for getting an appropriate combination of judges, law enforcement officers, and mental health care officials empowered to do anything about it. Current U.S. law says mental health is only a problem after violence already happens. We need other mechanisms. And we need funding and accountability to make sure people are actually cared for and not just locked up in the prison system. Police officers are not psychiatrists and jails are not hospitals.
saas_co_de 9y ago
> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA Sorry, but this is completely false. I am not going to link to it for reasons of taste, but you can google "encyclopedia dramatica high score" for a very thorough run down on mass shootings. They occur globally and are by no means a phenomenon isolated to the US.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  But when you compare USA to UK or Australia - both of whom banned most gun ownership following mass shootings - you see that USA far outstrips others who have addressed the situation with gun controls. Compare the USA situation to countries at war or with armed insurgencies and, of course, it might seem even tame. If you aspire only to give your citizens the security of a corrupt developing world dictatorship then this comparison is probably useful.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  They occur, but far less frequently.
  - saas_co_de 9y ago
    That is correct but the parent claimed they did not occur at all, which is false.
    - enraged_camel 9y ago
      >>the parent claimed they did not occur at all I read the parent comment again and I don't see the phrase "at all" in there, so the clear implication (at least to me) is that they meant mass murders by gun happen far less often.
- FRex 9y ago
  First of all, ED seems overly focused on USA/West/China, it doesn't list several arson (I assume that's what Fire Emblem means) and stabbing events (Hack'n'Slash) I personally know of. Next, I'm assuming that by "mass shootings" you mean the FPS, Single Player category on there (since the only other FPS aka shootings category is Co-op Mode which seems to be almost exclusively terrorism and gangs, not "common people"). Here is the raw data: https://pastebin.com/rfHy5KUu https://pastebin.com/rfHy5KUu Here is the aggregate by country: https://pastebin.com/NPi3kELY https://pastebin.com/NPi3kELY USA has 'only' 4.3% of global population but 17 out of 50 top ED loner shootings and one third of deaths and almost half of injuries. If that's not a phenomenon then I guess nothing is.
whyever 9y ago
> So, when mentally ill people want to cause harm they don't use those methods. Not sure what you mean by mentally ill, but they have definitely been used for that in Europe.
Tiksi 9y ago
>Consider this: ramming car into objects becomes a hobby and people starts to do that and take pride in it. They practice it every week. So, demolition derbys? Is there a higher rate of murder by car among people that participate in them?
vsl 9y ago
> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA Funny. I live in a country where gun ownership is common-ish. Curiously, per your theory, though - no mass shootings. Gun ownership is not the root of all evil.

lettergram 9y ago

> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA. First I beg to differ- compare the EU to the U.S. or the U.S. to India, or to China for that matter or the U.S. to Brazil. Not just "countries". The US is one of the largest countries on Earth (by population and landmass), with one of the most diverse sets of population... It's really hard to even find a comparison. And I can tell you've never used a gun, it's not really something you go - "yeah let's kill people for fun today". Most of the cases (literally all the ones I know of) do it for revenge, or how they feel about themselves, don't really think a hobby is playing into it - more likely it's that when guns are used we plaster their names all over every media outlet.

aaron-lebo 9y ago
Confused with your statement. Do you mean to suggest that India and Brazil aren't large countries with diverse and large populations? The same with the EU (though not a single country). The comparison isn't favorable to the US.
- lettergram 9y ago
  I'm saying look at the mass murder rates at countries of that scale. And that's even with a fairly uniform population, when you get to the U.S. you have a large, disperse group, with various ideologies, incentives, etc. Often this makes people feel isolated or ostracized, because they don't fit in or are being out down. Then you get mass murder or murder in general, because I you don't relate. Basically, you have no incentive to care for one another.
  - birksherty 9y ago
    No, USA is not the only country where different groups of people live and feel isolated. India have more diverse groups of people than anywhere else. Language, culture, cast, religion, economy. It's divide from every possible way. Lot of those groups hate each other. Many of them have lower status in society. And millions of people there have mental issues. People don't give shit about mental health there. If guns become normal there, it would be catastrophic.
birksherty 9y ago
> it's not really something you go - "yeah let's kill people for fun today" I never said people kill for fun. When mass shooting happens, using gun feels normal. Because they have been using that weapon (gun) like it's supposed to (shooting practices and hunting) for a long time.
mcintyre1994 9y ago
Your mass shooters are plastered over every media outlet in other countries too, so that doesn't fully explain it either.
- CompanionCuuube 9y ago
  Why do they do this? The reason we can't restrict the publicity being offered to mass shooters in the US is due to the first amendment. Those other countries don't have such restrictions. Why are they being complicit in creating copycats?

humanrebar 9y ago

> There are mentally ill people everywhere, not just in USA. This is the point gun lovers don't understand. I want to understand why we're taking another attempt at the sisyphean task of banning guns when less controversial mental healthcare reform is ripe for discussion. In the case of the Parkland shooter, everyone knew the killer was dangerous, but there was no reasonable mechanism for getting an appropriate combination of judges, law enforcement officers, and mental health care officials empowered to do anything about it. Current U.S. law says mental health is only a problem after violence already happens. We need other mechanisms. And we need funding and accountability to make sure people are actually cared for and not just locked up in the prison system. Police officers are not psychiatrists and jails are not hospitals.

saas_co_de 9y ago

> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA Sorry, but this is completely false. I am not going to link to it for reasons of taste, but you can google "encyclopedia dramatica high score" for a very thorough run down on mass shootings. They occur globally and are by no means a phenomenon isolated to the US.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
But when you compare USA to UK or Australia - both of whom banned most gun ownership following mass shootings - you see that USA far outstrips others who have addressed the situation with gun controls. Compare the USA situation to countries at war or with armed insurgencies and, of course, it might seem even tame. If you aspire only to give your citizens the security of a corrupt developing world dictatorship then this comparison is probably useful.
enraged_camel 9y ago
They occur, but far less frequently.
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  That is correct but the parent claimed they did not occur at all, which is false.
  - enraged_camel 9y ago
    >>the parent claimed they did not occur at all I read the parent comment again and I don't see the phrase "at all" in there, so the clear implication (at least to me) is that they meant mass murders by gun happen far less often.
FRex 9y ago
First of all, ED seems overly focused on USA/West/China, it doesn't list several arson (I assume that's what Fire Emblem means) and stabbing events (Hack'n'Slash) I personally know of. Next, I'm assuming that by "mass shootings" you mean the FPS, Single Player category on there (since the only other FPS aka shootings category is Co-op Mode which seems to be almost exclusively terrorism and gangs, not "common people"). Here is the raw data: https://pastebin.com/rfHy5KUu https://pastebin.com/rfHy5KUu Here is the aggregate by country: https://pastebin.com/NPi3kELY https://pastebin.com/NPi3kELY USA has 'only' 4.3% of global population but 17 out of 50 top ED loner shootings and one third of deaths and almost half of injuries. If that's not a phenomenon then I guess nothing is.

whyever 9y ago

> So, when mentally ill people want to cause harm they don't use those methods. Not sure what you mean by mentally ill, but they have definitely been used for that in Europe.

Tiksi 9y ago

>Consider this: ramming car into objects becomes a hobby and people starts to do that and take pride in it. They practice it every week. So, demolition derbys? Is there a higher rate of murder by car among people that participate in them?

vsl 9y ago

> That's why countries where gun are banned for general population, does not have mass murder by "common people" like USA Funny. I live in a country where gun ownership is common-ish. Curiously, per your theory, though - no mass shootings. Gun ownership is not the root of all evil.