7 ms·

No Longer a Secret: How Israel Destroyed Syria's Nuclear Reactor

91 points by myth_drannon 9y ago

brianbreslin 9y ago
Is there any way to find this article not behind a paywall?
- mrcarrot 9y ago
  Googling the title from an incognito mode browser session appears to work.
- myth_drannon 9y ago
  You can read a short article about it on Time.com, but it's a short article not an investigation like Haaretz had done. http://time.com/5208531/israeli-airstrike-syrian-nuclear-site-2007/ http://time.com/5208531/israeli-airstrike-syrian-nuclear-sit...
- JorgeGT 9y ago
  For me the Google cache loaded the full article: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WXaVey807GAJ:https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-no-longer-a-secret-how-israel-destroyed-syria-s-nuclear-reactor-1.5914407 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WXaVey...
- ajr0 9y ago
  click the 'web' link under the link that has enabled my ability to view.
- kencausey 9y ago
  Here it is on archive.is: https://archive.is/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-no-longer-a-secret-how-israel-destroyed-syria-s-nuclear-reactor-1.5914407 https://archive.is/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.prem...
- Scramblejams 9y ago
  https://archive.is/UY1Lv https://archive.is/UY1Lv has the virtue of working with Instapaper, if you need that.
- phyller 9y ago
  For those down-voting this question, keep in mind the FAQs mention that stories can be posted from paywall sites that have work arounds: Are paywalls ok? "It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
  - brianbreslin 9y ago
    This brings up the challenge that it is hard to ask a person to pay for a subscription to a site to read one article. I know a million startups have tried to tackle this, but none have done it right yet.
shaqbert 9y ago
In context, here is a great video from the Belfer center on nuclear bomb making and what are the hard parts [0]. Getting the fission material is the hard part, and in order to get plutonium nukes you need a enrichment plant, i.e. a reactor that is not meant to produce energy but breed plutonium. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhQOhxb1Mc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhQOhxb1Mc (at min 47, he starts talking about the hard parts)
- stcredzero 9y ago
  i.e. a reactor that is not meant to produce energy but breed plutonium. The French demonstrate that it is perfectly practical to run reactors to both produce energy and breed plutonium.
  - shaqbert 9y ago
    Well yes in terms of Plutonium in general, but not the weapon grade P239 kind of material that is very pure... For those you need a specific reactor dedicated to one cause.
CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
The CSS popups on this page are annoying.
justicezyx 9y ago
So in some other context, such activities are labeled "terrorism", now this becomes more neutral. This title is actually fine. But the other ones need to be more objective.
- burkaman 9y ago
  If a government directly does it, it's not called terrorism. I don't think I've ever seen a headline that contradicts that.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > If a government directly does it, it's not called terrorism. Considering that the modern use of “terrorist” and “terrorism” traced back directly to description of actors and actions associated with the Terror in Revolutionary France, that would be erroneous. It's true that much of the modern focus is on international terrorism (which necessarily excludes internal state terrorism, which is a form of intranational terrorism), state terrorism remains a significant thing (both internationally and internally.)
    - burkaman 9y ago
      It's not erroneous, terms evolve. There's no formal definition of terrorism, so we're just talking about how it's used in common conversation and media. Maybe it's just me, but in modern usage I've only ever seen references to non-governmental terrorism and "state sponsored terrorism", which is different than a direct government action. When a government does it it's just modern warfare.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Maybe it's just me, but in modern usage I've only ever seen references to non-governmental terrorism and "state sponsored terrorism", which is different than a direct government action. State-sponsored terrorism is broader than, but includes, direct government action. Direct actions by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps’ Quds Force are often described as “state sponsored terrorism”.
octorian 9y ago
I remember when this event was an active news story. At the time, it seemed like you'd learn something new every time you refreshed the page, and get a different ambiguous take on events depending on which news source you were reading, The only thing that was clear to me (in guarded vague language) was that Israel had bombed something in Syria, and that it might have been nuclear-related.
benja123 9y ago
The Ynet article has a really interesting short video documentary in which they interview many of the people involved in the decision making. Also no paywall. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5182507,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5182507,00.html
olivermarks 9y ago
One rogue state with undeclared nuclear weapons bombing another rogue state to prevent them building undeclared nuclear weapons...all kept secret for 10 years...Israeli intelligence gathering has amazing penetration and sophistication... https://youtu.be/ca-C3voZwpM https://youtu.be/ca-C3voZwpM
- loufe 9y ago
  It's been public since at most 2012, nevertheless for a country of their size -I agree- their intelligence organizations are incredibly impressive.
  - thathappened 9y ago
    Google q anon posts but skip the dot com on mobile. Seems as though something big related to integrated intelligence and politicians about to happen.
- davidf18 9y ago
  Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually needs nuclear weapons to defend itself as a matter of last resort. Notably, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states are not afraid of Israel's nuclear weapons. They are, however, very very afraid of Iran getting nuclear weapons. The Saudis, Egyptians and other Arab countries are cooperating with Israel to help stop the Iranian nuclear weapons. Saudi Arabia is talking about building their own bomb if Iran builds theirs.
mullen 9y ago
The New Yorker has a much better article that came out 6 years ago. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/17/the-silent-strike https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/17/the-silent-str...
- pacofvf 9y ago
  I've read both, Haaretz's it's more in depth, It give us an insight of what happened at Olmert's cabinet and his conversations with Nethanyu.
  - MichaelMoser123 9y ago
    I don't know what to make of it: there seems to be a media campaign going with the aim to make Olmert look good: he is back on the front pages - he got out of jail recently and his memoirs are being published by Yediot Ahronot; Now go figure what is for real and what is part of the media campaign. Or that they want to block Barak and his recent attempts to get back into politics. Interesting that the article paints Barak as a conspiracy minded crackpot. (Maybe one has to be a conspiracy theorist in order to survive office politics in Israel).
gaius_baltar 9y ago
The part that really got me is the one regarding the photos that Israeli agents captured from Othman's laptop in Vienna. This looks like the surface of a deeper story -- why was a top diplomatic agent carrying highly classified information lacking basic training on data security? Or why did his staff let him use an unsecured/unencrypted computer? Assuming he had no use for these pictures in Vienna, why was he carrying them to a place where attacks from foreign agents are expected? Why weren't top diplomatic agents and people trusted with state secrets issued clean (and secured) laptops before traveling abroad? The way it was described precludes a Evil Maid Attack unless, of course, they had previous access to the same laptop. A lot of very interesting questions remain.

91 points by myth_drannon 9y ago

brianbreslin 9y ago

Is there any way to find this article not behind a paywall?

mrcarrot 9y ago
Googling the title from an incognito mode browser session appears to work.
myth_drannon 9y ago
You can read a short article about it on Time.com, but it's a short article not an investigation like Haaretz had done. http://time.com/5208531/israeli-airstrike-syrian-nuclear-site-2007/ http://time.com/5208531/israeli-airstrike-syrian-nuclear-sit...
JorgeGT 9y ago
For me the Google cache loaded the full article: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WXaVey807GAJ:https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-no-longer-a-secret-how-israel-destroyed-syria-s-nuclear-reactor-1.5914407 https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WXaVey...
ajr0 9y ago
click the 'web' link under the link that has enabled my ability to view.
kencausey 9y ago
Here it is on archive.is: https://archive.is/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-no-longer-a-secret-how-israel-destroyed-syria-s-nuclear-reactor-1.5914407 https://archive.is/https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.prem...
Scramblejams 9y ago
https://archive.is/UY1Lv https://archive.is/UY1Lv has the virtue of working with Instapaper, if you need that.
phyller 9y ago
For those down-voting this question, keep in mind the FAQs mention that stories can be posted from paywall sites that have work arounds: Are paywalls ok? "It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds. In comments, it's ok to ask how to read an article and to help other users do so. But please don't post complaints about paywalls. Those are off topic." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
- brianbreslin 9y ago
  This brings up the challenge that it is hard to ask a person to pay for a subscription to a site to read one article. I know a million startups have tried to tackle this, but none have done it right yet.

shaqbert 9y ago

In context, here is a great video from the Belfer center on nuclear bomb making and what are the hard parts [0]. Getting the fission material is the hard part, and in order to get plutonium nukes you need a enrichment plant, i.e. a reactor that is not meant to produce energy but breed plutonium. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhQOhxb1Mc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVhQOhxb1Mc (at min 47, he starts talking about the hard parts)

stcredzero 9y ago
i.e. a reactor that is not meant to produce energy but breed plutonium. The French demonstrate that it is perfectly practical to run reactors to both produce energy and breed plutonium.
- shaqbert 9y ago
  Well yes in terms of Plutonium in general, but not the weapon grade P239 kind of material that is very pure... For those you need a specific reactor dedicated to one cause.

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago

The CSS popups on this page are annoying.

justicezyx 9y ago

So in some other context, such activities are labeled "terrorism", now this becomes more neutral. This title is actually fine. But the other ones need to be more objective.

burkaman 9y ago
If a government directly does it, it's not called terrorism. I don't think I've ever seen a headline that contradicts that.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > If a government directly does it, it's not called terrorism. Considering that the modern use of “terrorist” and “terrorism” traced back directly to description of actors and actions associated with the Terror in Revolutionary France, that would be erroneous. It's true that much of the modern focus is on international terrorism (which necessarily excludes internal state terrorism, which is a form of intranational terrorism), state terrorism remains a significant thing (both internationally and internally.)
  - burkaman 9y ago
    It's not erroneous, terms evolve. There's no formal definition of terrorism, so we're just talking about how it's used in common conversation and media. Maybe it's just me, but in modern usage I've only ever seen references to non-governmental terrorism and "state sponsored terrorism", which is different than a direct government action. When a government does it it's just modern warfare.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Maybe it's just me, but in modern usage I've only ever seen references to non-governmental terrorism and "state sponsored terrorism", which is different than a direct government action. State-sponsored terrorism is broader than, but includes, direct government action. Direct actions by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps’ Quds Force are often described as “state sponsored terrorism”.

octorian 9y ago

I remember when this event was an active news story. At the time, it seemed like you'd learn something new every time you refreshed the page, and get a different ambiguous take on events depending on which news source you were reading, The only thing that was clear to me (in guarded vague language) was that Israel had bombed something in Syria, and that it might have been nuclear-related.

benja123 9y ago

The Ynet article has a really interesting short video documentary in which they interview many of the people involved in the decision making. Also no paywall. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5182507,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5182507,00.html

olivermarks 9y ago

One rogue state with undeclared nuclear weapons bombing another rogue state to prevent them building undeclared nuclear weapons...all kept secret for 10 years...Israeli intelligence gathering has amazing penetration and sophistication... https://youtu.be/ca-C3voZwpM https://youtu.be/ca-C3voZwpM

loufe 9y ago
It's been public since at most 2012, nevertheless for a country of their size -I agree- their intelligence organizations are incredibly impressive.
- thathappened 9y ago
  Google q anon posts but skip the dot com on mobile. Seems as though something big related to integrated intelligence and politicians about to happen.
davidf18 9y ago
Israel is one of the few nations in the world that actually needs nuclear weapons to defend itself as a matter of last resort. Notably, Saudi Arabia and other Arab states are not afraid of Israel's nuclear weapons. They are, however, very very afraid of Iran getting nuclear weapons. The Saudis, Egyptians and other Arab countries are cooperating with Israel to help stop the Iranian nuclear weapons. Saudi Arabia is talking about building their own bomb if Iran builds theirs.

mullen 9y ago

The New Yorker has a much better article that came out 6 years ago. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/17/the-silent-strike https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/17/the-silent-str...

pacofvf 9y ago
I've read both, Haaretz's it's more in depth, It give us an insight of what happened at Olmert's cabinet and his conversations with Nethanyu.
- MichaelMoser123 9y ago
  I don't know what to make of it: there seems to be a media campaign going with the aim to make Olmert look good: he is back on the front pages - he got out of jail recently and his memoirs are being published by Yediot Ahronot; Now go figure what is for real and what is part of the media campaign. Or that they want to block Barak and his recent attempts to get back into politics. Interesting that the article paints Barak as a conspiracy minded crackpot. (Maybe one has to be a conspiracy theorist in order to survive office politics in Israel).

gaius_baltar 9y ago

The part that really got me is the one regarding the photos that Israeli agents captured from Othman's laptop in Vienna. This looks like the surface of a deeper story -- why was a top diplomatic agent carrying highly classified information lacking basic training on data security? Or why did his staff let him use an unsecured/unencrypted computer? Assuming he had no use for these pictures in Vienna, why was he carrying them to a place where attacks from foreign agents are expected? Why weren't top diplomatic agents and people trusted with state secrets issued clean (and secured) laptops before traveling abroad? The way it was described precludes a Evil Maid Attack unless, of course, they had previous access to the same laptop. A lot of very interesting questions remain.