7 ms·
Windows 10: Microsoft is looking to force people to use its Edge browser
- oneeyedpigeon 9y agoFor example, "links clicked on within the Windows Mail app will open in Microsoft Edge" regardless of any 'default/preferred browser' setting. Sounds like a pretty hostile user experience, to me.
- walterbell 9y agoIt is hostile. Sadly, iOS does this with Mobile Safari.
- seba_dos1 9y agoiOS is on a completely another level of lockdown, as you can't have third party browsers at all there, only UI wrappers on Apple provided webview widgets.
- walterbell 9y agoEven those wrappers can be useful, e.g. to isolate identity management. But even those wrappers are not selectable at the OS level, only within apps that allow you to choose the default browser/wrapper for opening links.
- sebazzz 9y agoNo, dynamic code execution is not allowed which is pretty useful if you want a performant javascript experience.
- TwoNineA 9y agoI didn't know you could change your default browser on iOS.
- exelius 9y agoYou can install other browsers, but the page rendering must be done by Apple’s iOS system version of WebKit. Basically it’s only good for things like bookmark / history syncing.
- TwoNineA 9y agoI know, I was pointing out waterbell's silly argument.
- walterbell 9y agoI'm referring specifically to the Mail app on iOS. Other apps, e.g. Wire for replacing iMessage and Mail, will let you choose which browser will open links.
- majormajor 9y agoRight, and even then, Apple isn't going to help you at all: links from other apps won't open in Firefox, so you jump through hoops to try to get your Firefox bookmark/history syncing support... Unfortunately people are better at copying Apple on the annoying shit like this than at the stuff they're actually really good at.
- hbosch 9y agoYou can't, but you can change your default browser in many apps (such as Gmail).
- oneeyedpigeon 9y agoI think it's bad there, too, but it's maybe a slightly different situation: iOS has never pretended to be anything other than a very locked-down walled garden; Windows is supposed to add bit more flexibility. If iOS actually allows other browsers to be installed, then it's made some kind of 'progress', but Windows is moving in the other direction: there's a pretty undesirable average that they both seem to be heading for whereby you can install alternative applications, but the OS will make it much harder for you if you do.
- Brendinooo 9y agoGmail does this a lot in the iOS app too - I feel like I'm always telling it to remember my choice of Safari over Chrome. It also links addresses to Google Maps instead of Apple maps without even giving you an option.
- turtlebits 9y agoYes, the Google Inbox iOS app never remembers your browser setting, even when you tell it to.
- fhood 9y agoSafari doesn't come with several tons of baggage though. It might be unfair, but as a result of IE I find it very difficult to trust a Microsoft browser.
- tinus_hn 9y agoNo, iOS doesn’t pretend you can choose the default browser.
- Rjevski 9y agoOn the other hand, iOS (and early Android) gets a pass as they never had the concept of "default browser" to begin with. Windows had this concept for a while (and still has) and is just intentionally ignoring it - that's definitely hostile.
- AmVess 9y agoIt is pretty hostile, and is rather amazing that Microsoft has learned nothing since the Windows 95/IE days and the shenanigans they used to pull.
- incompatible 9y agoIn the Windows 95/IE days they were stopped by government antitrust action, in the US and EU. I suppose the EU is still willing to look into such things. Windows users may complain about it, but they remain a largely captive customer base, as far as I know. Especially organisations. They rarely consider switching to a different OS, regardless of what Microsoft does.
- wycy 9y agoThis tactic seems like a double-edged sword. I would think for many people, this behavior would annoy and dissuade them from continuing to use Windows Mail.
- curt15 9y agoDo people actually use Windows Mail?
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoProbably more than use Edge.
- AndrewGaspar 9y agoIt's actually a pretty serviceable app, at least for my personal mail. I generally want something heavier weight, like Outlook, for work mail, though.
- decebalus1 9y agoIt is hostile. Sadly, stock Android does this with Chrome in Google now and the home screen.
- skykooler 9y agoGoogle Now doesn't actually open Chrome, as far as I can tell; it opens an internal webview which acts like Chrome but does not appear to share things like the list of tabs etc.
- seba_dos1 9y agoIsn't it actually using the custom tab API? If so, it can be (and is) implemented by other browsers too.
- majormajor 9y agoSweet, thanks to MS joining Apple we can debate philosophical questions like "is an ignored preference better than no option to set a preference." :| Even third party apps that build in their own chooser in iOS tend to be only Safari and Chrome... :rolleyes:
- cat199 9y agoI get that the market is drastically different than the late 90s, but isn't there already a direct legal precedent of Microsoft browser bundling as clear evidence of monopolist behavior? seems like a dumb idea to risk this here..
- std_throwaway 9y agoIs there an Add-On for Edge to open the page in another browser?
- rasz 9y agoSounds like another billion dollar EU investigation.
- dustinls 9y agoThis already happens for me? Stopped using windows mail for this reason.
- ilamont 9y agoForcing Cortana results to be displayed in Edge (and Bing) is the main reason I don't use Cortana.
- Mikeb85 9y agoYeah, I just bought a new laptop (Acer Swift with Ryzen 7/Vega chipset, great Linux laptop btw!), and the hour or so I spent with Windows 10 was beyond infuriating. From the voice assistant constantly harassing you to pop-ups in every single app trying to make you use Edge, to the poor user experience that Edge is itself. Also the default Windows installation didn't have the right graphics drivers for the Ryzen/Vega APU, the pixel scaling was way off, etc... It's amazing to me that people still use Microsoft products. Even though I installed the alpha version of Ubuntu 18.04 (beta now), it's already far more usable (and less buggy) than the Windows 10 that came on the laptop. Ubuntu improved battery life (when does it ever do that?), had up to date graphics drivers, and no shitty pop-ups. Oh well, MS' increased hostility is a sign that they're scared for their market share, and a sign that they're waning. I for one have had enough of their crap.
- homero 9y agoWindows 10 uninstalled apps without telling me, I ended up wiping it and reinstalling Windows 7
- krylon 9y agoWow. I am so glad my work laptop still runs Windows 7. I thought about upgrading to 10 because of WSL, but coworkers that already run Windows 10 are fighting problems constantly, every update is a roll of the dice, stuff breaks randomly, it is like the "good" old days all over again.
- bitwize 9y agoMost of Hackernews seems to think that Windows 10 with WSL is a better Linux than Linux. I think they need to put down the shrooms and start drinking milk again, because I'm with you -- I just don't see it. I spent a good chunk of the weekend nursing my one Windows PC along and it was a shitshow nearly from start to finish: * Disk I/O is incredibly slow. This is, in part, because Windows Defender intercepts all disk I/O routines, and all disk I/O goes through it so it can spot suspicious activity... like intercepting the disk I/O routines. Want to turn it off? Too bad! Windows provides a knob, but it resets itself after a time. If it hasn't happened already, Microsoft may disconnect this button from any useful function, making it a placebo like NYC walk-signal pushbuttons. * At one point, while slogging through a Visual Studio install, Windows decided to nag me with a modal-over-everything dialog: "We have an update for you. Windows is a service, and updates are part of that service. So... yeah, if you could go ahead and restart now, that would be terrific." That last sentence is an exaggeration, but you get the idea. I don't want to be passive-aggressed to by a piece of equipment I bought with my own money. Oh, and the computer was thrashing so hard with all this derring-do that it took the better part of a minute with absolutely no response for the click to register and the dialog to dismiss. I felt like I was back on my old 386SX trying to make Windows 3.1 go in 2 MiB of RAM. Doubtless some bureaucrat who lives inside NTOSKRNL.EXE noticed that it took me longer than average to press the button -- and that I chose to delay the Windows Update while Visual Studio finished installing -- and made a note in my personnel file for further review by management. I'm expecting another dialog to pop up informing me that Windows has put me on an action plan. * Somehow, the update process obliterated my Microsoft Office license, requiring me to "repair my installation" (meaning redownload and reinstall Office and reauthenticate in order to reregister and reactivate the reinstalled copy). So no, I simply don't see how people live with this day to day, let alone prefer it to Linux. Ubuntu could drop you into FVWM from 1995 and it'd still be more productive than this. Even the rudest Unix environment is not this actively hostile.
- thriftwy 9y agoI remember Windows 10 begging me not to un-default Edge the last time I've tinkered with it. It's a pretty pathetic of them, but then again they think their users owe them the second chance, or indeed the first, on the product they never wanted in the first place. It may be good. It may be bad. Buy some Facebook ads already! You should not get any leverage on users of your OS and didn't antitrust cases teach you that? Why would you expect to get a 5 minutes evaluation from users, for free?
- dspillett 9y ago> I remember Windows 10 begging me not to un-default Edge The first time I run Chrome of Firefox after a reboot, Windows begs me to use Edge instead.
- delibes 9y ago> "It is clear Microsoft needs to do something to stimulate use of Edge, but the change is likely to be extremely unpopular with both testers and regular users" I think if it has the side-effect of pushing users still using IE8-11 onto Chrome or Firefox (or even Edge), the testers will probably be happy.
- mnm1 9y agoAt this point I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft decides which apps to install and run and when. I wouldn't be surprised if they're imaging hard dives and secretly sending contents back home for analysis or recording every keystroke, message, etc. The shocking thing is that somehow people still trust Microsoft even though they have proven over and over again to be untrustworthy. I wonder what it'd take for people to question that trust.
- AstralStorm 9y agoI'm pretty sure enterprise customers will have MS head on the pike if that happens. Good way to commit company suicide though.
- opencl 9y agoThey even discontinued their own PDF reader (completely disabling it if you already had it installed) in an attempt to make people use Edge to read PDFs. Opening it now just says "Microsoft Edge is the new home for PDFs!" Edge is unsurprisingly not a very good PDF reader.
- fhood 9y agoI want preview (the app) on all my devices. Not just my laptop. Is there something out there for Windows that fill that niche? Edit: The thing that has impressed me about preview is that I can use it for very basic image editing, filling out forms (with signatures), and reading books. And it is very good at all of those. So that is what I would want in a replacement.
- krylon 9y agoI am not sure how close it comes, but for PDFs I use SumatraPDF: https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html https://www.sumatrapdfreader.org/free-pdf-reader.html It is relatively lightweight, can be used without a formal installation (i.e. no admin privileges required), and I like very much that it stores its state between sessions, so when I open it after a reboot, it has all the files open I had open before, and it also saves the position within the files. Searching within files is not as good as with Apple's Preview.app, but most of the lengthy files I view have decent TOCs, so it is not a big problem for me.
- superzadeh 9y agoHumm, that would just make me stop using the mail app then.
- AstralStorm 9y agoAnother antitrust lawsuit here we go!
- fencepost 9y agoIf I was actually using Windows Mail for anything (it is linked to an Outlook.com account that I don't really use) this would be a good motivation to stop using it, but for the vast majority of users I'm not sure they'd have a clue about how to change. In addition the range of non-browser email clients seems to have narrowed quite a bit in the past decade - what besides Thunderbird is still around?
- gcb0 9y agoapple did that for over a decade on ios and fanboys loved it for the "security". google still does that, since every android webview is a chrome instance with default setting (i.e. send tons of info to google) that you can't configure yourself. and to add ofense to the injury, first class apps like gmail or google search app wont even allow you to use other browsers in some cases.
- gruez 9y ago>with default setting (i.e. send tons of info to google) that you can't configure yourself source? what is there to send? the only thing I can think of is third party cookies, but it's not like most people regularly clear cookies anyways.
- blinkingled 9y agoThis makes sure I won't use Edge _and_ Windows Mail. The browser war is still not a zero sum game - if Edge just plain didn't suck maybe more people would use it. But MS hasn't been able to get Edge to be usable for intensive browsing.
- starik36 9y agoInstead of this, they should port Edge to Windows 7 and 8 and force people to get off IE 11. So that I don't have to visit caniuse.com a dozen times a day.
- jacksmith21006 9y agoMS should first concentrate on securing Edge.
- starsinspace 9y agoAfter what they did to push Win10 itself on people using earlier Windows versions... does this surprise anyone? Solution is simple too: get rid of Win10.
- dingo_bat 9y agoSince Apple does the same and hundreds of millions of people don't seem to have a problem with it, I'd say Microsoft is stupid if they don't do it. Edge is a very capable browser and if it drives people away from the monopolistic mess that is Chrome, I'm all for it.
- Piskvorrr 9y agoYou were not around during the first and second Browser Wars, and the Dark Ages, were you? Yours is, word for word, the exact argument "from-Navigator-to-MSIE." What we got from that was, eventually, the monstrosity called IE6.
- qwtel 9y agoI think this is a good thing. the web landscape needs more than one large browser, otherwise the company behind that browser ends up dictating web standards. also, IE Edge is a fantasic browser. from a consumer perspective, nobody is missing out.
- cdblades 9y agoIt's never a good thing to ignore a user preference that you've exposed. Also, Chrome is less dominant right now than IE was at its height. There are more browser options now than there ever have been.
- Digit-Al 9y agoI dunno. Seems to me that the main source of users of the default mail app are people who will just use the default browser anyway. Surely most people just use online mail such as hotmail / gmail these days anyway.
- BrandoElFollito 9y agoI always wonder how it is to work in the Edge team. They probably feel that this at least an exotic tool in the MS ecosystem, and I guess they never know how long it will be supported (by management)