5 ms·

I don't see why benevolent needs to be in quotes in your comment. Regardless of whatever financial or tax upside they get from doing this, the upside the game

by sbarre 9y ago

I don't see why benevolent needs to be in quotes in your comment. Regardless of whatever financial or tax upside they get from doing this, the upside the game development community gets is the same. They are doing something they really didn't need to do, and as GP pointed out, most companies don't do.

mbesto 9y ago
> I don't see why benevolent needs to be in quotes in your comment > most companies don't do. Because most companies are for-profit entities. Most companies don't do this because they aren't in this specific situation. Most gaming companies have really delicate economics (high up front capital costs, with less than guaranteed returns). Call me cynical all you want, but the idea that video gaming companies (of all industries) are somehow out to provide benevolently for it's software developing community is laughable at best (see EA, Ubisoft, Zynga etc). The video gaming market is rife with abusing long hours out of it's employees.
- rootlocus 9y ago
  > see EA, Ubisoft, Zynga etc You're cherry picking a handful of awful companies for the sake of making a point about the entire industry.
  - mbesto 9y ago
    I take it you haven't worked in the industry? There's literally an industry term for it ("crunch") because it's so bad. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/257143/Working_time_among_video_game_developers_Trends_over_200414.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/257143/Working_time_amon... http://www.gameinformer.com/themes/blogs/generic/post.aspx?WeblogApp=features&y=2018&m=01&d=16&WeblogPostName=crunch-the-video-game-industrys-notorious-labor-problem&GroupKeys=&PostPageIndex=2 http://www.gameinformer.com/themes/blogs/generic/post.aspx?W... https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577 https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/20/why-crunch-time-is-still-a-problem-in-the-video-game-industry/ https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/20/why-crunch-time-is-still-... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/opinion/work-culture-video-games-crunch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/opinion/work-culture-vide... https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/PaulTozour/20150120/234443/The_Game_Outcomes_Project_Part_4_Crunch_Makes_Games_Worse.php https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/PaulTozour/20150120/234443/T...
    - kosei 9y ago
      Asking employees to work long hours in order to meet deadlines is not unique to the games industry.
      - plussed_reader 9y ago
        It's not an ask when made a condition of employment.
    - always_good 9y ago
      You built your own straw man. Nobody said that video gaming companies "are somehow out to provide benevolently for it's software developing community." If we were talking about Epic Games giving $100 to each American, that wouldn't follow either. But if you can't acknowledge that some decisions are more well-meaning than others, you're just sour grapes.
- corysama 9y ago
  It can be both. Doing good by others does not require absolute zero benefit for yourself. The total refund is a win for Epic and it’s customers alike.
aaronharder 9y ago
I'd argue benevolent belongs in quotes. Not to question the very clear upside to the game development community. But rather to acknowledge that Epic is likely anticipating the benefits to itself as a company will be higher than the costs.
- falcolas 9y ago
  I would disagree that a prerequisite of a corporation being benevolent is losing money. There was no requirement of giving away the assets in order to gain the tax benefits.
wwalser 9y ago
"As with all of Epic’s internally developed assets, the Paragon assets are only licensed for use in Unreal Engine 4." This is marketing for their game engine. They don't have to do it, sure. But SaaS companies don't have to provide free blogs, webinars and e-books either but we don't pretend they are benevolent for doing so. Don't get me wrong. I think more art assets available in the game dev community is a good thing. I think more free stuff from one company (Epic in this case) will beget more free stuff from their competitors (Unity mainly). I'm just pointing out that this isn't free for the sake of being benevolent. It's free for the sake of capturing market share.
- abiox 9y ago
  > I'm just pointing out that this isn't free for the sake of being benevolent. It's free for the sake of capturing market share. this seems like it could be a false dichotomy. it's not obvious why it can't be both.
  - wwalser 9y ago
    Benevolent: "(of an organization) serving a charitable rather than a profit-making purpose." That's not how this word works. We can use another one. I hasten to add, again, that I'm attributing nothing pejorative. I'm glad Epic have done this. It's great marketing that may be helpful to lots of people.
    - abiox 9y ago
      "benevolent" wasn't being used to describe the organization, it was being used to describe a particular action.
      - awesomepeter 9y ago
        The issue is this action isn't benevolent. It's nice, but as said previously it's to promote their engine. So they will profit from it indirectly. If on the other hand they would release the assets without strings attached (for use with any game engine / in any way) then I'd say this word would apply.
brann0 9y ago
Indeed. Tired of people associating benevolence with no monetary reward whatsoever.

by sbarre 9y ago

mbesto 9y ago

> I don't see why benevolent needs to be in quotes in your comment > most companies don't do. Because most companies are for-profit entities. Most companies don't do this because they aren't in this specific situation. Most gaming companies have really delicate economics (high up front capital costs, with less than guaranteed returns). Call me cynical all you want, but the idea that video gaming companies (of all industries) are somehow out to provide benevolently for it's software developing community is laughable at best (see EA, Ubisoft, Zynga etc). The video gaming market is rife with abusing long hours out of it's employees.

rootlocus 9y ago
> see EA, Ubisoft, Zynga etc You're cherry picking a handful of awful companies for the sake of making a point about the entire industry.
- mbesto 9y ago
  I take it you haven't worked in the industry? There's literally an industry term for it ("crunch") because it's so bad. https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/257143/Working_time_among_video_game_developers_Trends_over_200414.php https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/257143/Working_time_amon... http://www.gameinformer.com/themes/blogs/generic/post.aspx?WeblogApp=features&y=2018&m=01&d=16&WeblogPostName=crunch-the-video-game-industrys-notorious-labor-problem&GroupKeys=&PostPageIndex=2 http://www.gameinformer.com/themes/blogs/generic/post.aspx?W... https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such-insane-hours-1704744577 https://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-game-developers-work-such... https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/20/why-crunch-time-is-still-a-problem-in-the-video-game-industry/ https://venturebeat.com/2016/03/20/why-crunch-time-is-still-... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/opinion/work-culture-video-games-crunch.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/opinion/work-culture-vide... https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/PaulTozour/20150120/234443/The_Game_Outcomes_Project_Part_4_Crunch_Makes_Games_Worse.php https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/PaulTozour/20150120/234443/T...
  - kosei 9y ago
    Asking employees to work long hours in order to meet deadlines is not unique to the games industry.
    - plussed_reader 9y ago
      It's not an ask when made a condition of employment.
  - always_good 9y ago
    You built your own straw man. Nobody said that video gaming companies "are somehow out to provide benevolently for it's software developing community." If we were talking about Epic Games giving $100 to each American, that wouldn't follow either. But if you can't acknowledge that some decisions are more well-meaning than others, you're just sour grapes.
corysama 9y ago
It can be both. Doing good by others does not require absolute zero benefit for yourself. The total refund is a win for Epic and it’s customers alike.

aaronharder 9y ago

I'd argue benevolent belongs in quotes. Not to question the very clear upside to the game development community. But rather to acknowledge that Epic is likely anticipating the benefits to itself as a company will be higher than the costs.

falcolas 9y ago
I would disagree that a prerequisite of a corporation being benevolent is losing money. There was no requirement of giving away the assets in order to gain the tax benefits.

wwalser 9y ago

"As with all of Epic’s internally developed assets, the Paragon assets are only licensed for use in Unreal Engine 4." This is marketing for their game engine. They don't have to do it, sure. But SaaS companies don't have to provide free blogs, webinars and e-books either but we don't pretend they are benevolent for doing so. Don't get me wrong. I think more art assets available in the game dev community is a good thing. I think more free stuff from one company (Epic in this case) will beget more free stuff from their competitors (Unity mainly). I'm just pointing out that this isn't free for the sake of being benevolent. It's free for the sake of capturing market share.

abiox 9y ago
> I'm just pointing out that this isn't free for the sake of being benevolent. It's free for the sake of capturing market share. this seems like it could be a false dichotomy. it's not obvious why it can't be both.
- wwalser 9y ago
  Benevolent: "(of an organization) serving a charitable rather than a profit-making purpose." That's not how this word works. We can use another one. I hasten to add, again, that I'm attributing nothing pejorative. I'm glad Epic have done this. It's great marketing that may be helpful to lots of people.
  - abiox 9y ago
    "benevolent" wasn't being used to describe the organization, it was being used to describe a particular action.
    - awesomepeter 9y ago
      The issue is this action isn't benevolent. It's nice, but as said previously it's to promote their engine. So they will profit from it indirectly. If on the other hand they would release the assets without strings attached (for use with any game engine / in any way) then I'd say this word would apply.

brann0 9y ago

Indeed. Tired of people associating benevolence with no monetary reward whatsoever.