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I'm a Windows person, but I've got Ubuntu on a netbook. It took me a couple of hours to figure out how to get the repository for XBMC set up so that it would l

I'm a Windows person, but I've got Ubuntu on a netbook. It took me a couple of hours to figure out how to get the repository for XBMC set up so that it would let me install the program. Now I'd like to upgrade to Ubuntu 10.4, but I don't have quite enough space in the SSD to do it. I'd like to cut out some software that I don't really use on the netbook. But I can't figure out how to make it actually get rid of things that I uninstall. In particular, since installations are hierarchies of dependent packages, I can't see how to tell it "get rid of this and anything that it depends on, that isn't required by something else". So for now, I can't upgrade my Ubuntu installation. This sounds like your typical family member who can't get Windows to work right, doesn't it? I don't think that Linux has done anything better. They've done it different, and people who know the system can use it very effectively, but those of us who don't know the incantations are still out in the cold.

mquander 16y ago
FYI, I think "apt-get autoremove" will do what you want -- list packages which were installed automatically as a dependency and are no longer necessary. (I'm not sure how or if you can do the same thing with the package management GUI.)
- bad_user 16y ago
  BTW ... both "autoremove" and "dist-upgrade" made my system unusable a couple of times. There's no software repository as properly maintained as Debian's ... but normal users can totally trash their systems and that is not OK.
  - mquander 16y ago
    I always assumed that it tended to work out for "normal" users -- that sucks if it doesn't. I tend to be the sort of person who "[thinks that] development versions, experimental and unstable are for old ladies" (HT to xorg-edgers.) I'm pretty sure that condemns me to a life of resolving weird incompatibilities. I definitely don't personally trust autoremove as far as I can chuck it. (edit: my experience is on Ubuntu, not Debian.)
    - _delirium 16y ago
      I've never had a problem with aptitude's autoremoval on Debian, at least. It might be somewhat more conservative than apt-get's autoremove, though I'm not sure exactly how apt-get's version works. Aptitude sort of opts-in packages to autoremoval: when aptitude itself automatically installs a package to satisfy a dependency, it remembers that fact, and only considers those packages for auto-uninstallation. So the only possible way a package will get auto-removed is if it was a package that aptitude auto-installed to begin with, and none of the reasons for the auto-installation hold anymore. Any package that got on the system some other way, such as being part of the base install from an ISO, doesn't get considered, even if nothing depends on it.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    > normal users can totally trash their systems and that is not OK. That is one of it's greatest shortcomings. Then again, on the other hand, that is one of it's greatest strengths.
    - cynicalkane 16y ago
      It's not a strength. Poorly-defined, fundamentally broken behavior is not a strength.
      - sliverstorm 16y ago
        Sorry, I was referring more to Linux as a whole, and I guess you are talking more specifically about the package manager?
levesque 16y ago
Personally I don't like synaptic, but if you open up the ubuntu software centre and then click on 'installed software', you will see a list of every application that is installed on your system. Dependencies are automatically installed for all applications and are automatically removed when there are no packages left that need them, so don't worry about those! If you're more a command line guy, you can do the same using aptitude (aptitude remove package-name). Packages under aptitude will be listed as (a)utomatically installed if they were installed as a requirement for another package, so you shouldn't have to remove those by hand.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  Also opening a console and using "popcon-largest-unused" should give you a list of the largest packages that you have not yet used the binaries from. Mine doesn't seem to update properly but this might be because I'm using Kubuntu. On my slimmed down system I use "sudo aptitude" type "/appname[Enter]", where appname is from the list popcon gives, then "n" to find the package and then try "_" (Shift+-) which purges the packages. If something will break you get a warning "e" shows what the suggested action is "," and "." scroll through options and "!" applies. When you're happy "g" will list the actions to be taken and "g" again will confirm. "q" at any time quits or moves to the previous menu or list. HTH.
muhfuhkuh 16y ago
That's great. But, this was Bill Gates using the product from the company that he founded and ran. Familiarity should seriously not enter into it. "They've done it different, and people who know the system can use it very effectively, but those of us who don't know the incantations are still out in the cold." Agreed, but seriously, I've never had to go through such steps to do anything in Linux unless it was, for example, a brand new piece of hardware that didn't have kernel module. This was Microsoft Windows user trying to install Microsoft Moviemaker software by Microsoft. And, it took all that.
yoyar 16y ago
Ubuntu isn't perfect. Of course not. But it changes and is improved with releases every six months. It keeps improving at a rate that I think MS will have a very hard time keeping up with.
sesqu 16y ago
I can't upgrade Ubuntu without it reinstalling the things I removed, or updating the drivers I don't want updated.
eeperson 16y ago
This is one of the advantages of using 'aptitude' to install software rather than 'apt-get'. Removal takes care of unused dependencies. Beware, mixing 'apt-get' and 'aptitude' used to cause some issues, such as trying to remove software that wasn't installed with 'aptitude' (although it always asks first). I think this has been fixed in recent versions but I'm not sure.
caf 16y ago
The output of the `deborphan` command might be of interest.

mquander 16y ago

FYI, I think "apt-get autoremove" will do what you want -- list packages which were installed automatically as a dependency and are no longer necessary. (I'm not sure how or if you can do the same thing with the package management GUI.)

bad_user 16y ago
BTW ... both "autoremove" and "dist-upgrade" made my system unusable a couple of times. There's no software repository as properly maintained as Debian's ... but normal users can totally trash their systems and that is not OK.
- mquander 16y ago
  I always assumed that it tended to work out for "normal" users -- that sucks if it doesn't. I tend to be the sort of person who "[thinks that] development versions, experimental and unstable are for old ladies" (HT to xorg-edgers.) I'm pretty sure that condemns me to a life of resolving weird incompatibilities. I definitely don't personally trust autoremove as far as I can chuck it. (edit: my experience is on Ubuntu, not Debian.)
  - _delirium 16y ago
    I've never had a problem with aptitude's autoremoval on Debian, at least. It might be somewhat more conservative than apt-get's autoremove, though I'm not sure exactly how apt-get's version works. Aptitude sort of opts-in packages to autoremoval: when aptitude itself automatically installs a package to satisfy a dependency, it remembers that fact, and only considers those packages for auto-uninstallation. So the only possible way a package will get auto-removed is if it was a package that aptitude auto-installed to begin with, and none of the reasons for the auto-installation hold anymore. Any package that got on the system some other way, such as being part of the base install from an ISO, doesn't get considered, even if nothing depends on it.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  > normal users can totally trash their systems and that is not OK. That is one of it's greatest shortcomings. Then again, on the other hand, that is one of it's greatest strengths.
  - cynicalkane 16y ago
    It's not a strength. Poorly-defined, fundamentally broken behavior is not a strength.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      Sorry, I was referring more to Linux as a whole, and I guess you are talking more specifically about the package manager?

levesque 16y ago

Personally I don't like synaptic, but if you open up the ubuntu software centre and then click on 'installed software', you will see a list of every application that is installed on your system. Dependencies are automatically installed for all applications and are automatically removed when there are no packages left that need them, so don't worry about those! If you're more a command line guy, you can do the same using aptitude (aptitude remove package-name). Packages under aptitude will be listed as (a)utomatically installed if they were installed as a requirement for another package, so you shouldn't have to remove those by hand.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
Also opening a console and using "popcon-largest-unused" should give you a list of the largest packages that you have not yet used the binaries from. Mine doesn't seem to update properly but this might be because I'm using Kubuntu. On my slimmed down system I use "sudo aptitude" type "/appname[Enter]", where appname is from the list popcon gives, then "n" to find the package and then try "_" (Shift+-) which purges the packages. If something will break you get a warning "e" shows what the suggested action is "," and "." scroll through options and "!" applies. When you're happy "g" will list the actions to be taken and "g" again will confirm. "q" at any time quits or moves to the previous menu or list. HTH.

muhfuhkuh 16y ago

That's great. But, this was Bill Gates using the product from the company that he founded and ran. Familiarity should seriously not enter into it. "They've done it different, and people who know the system can use it very effectively, but those of us who don't know the incantations are still out in the cold." Agreed, but seriously, I've never had to go through such steps to do anything in Linux unless it was, for example, a brand new piece of hardware that didn't have kernel module. This was Microsoft Windows user trying to install Microsoft Moviemaker software by Microsoft. And, it took all that.

yoyar 16y ago

Ubuntu isn't perfect. Of course not. But it changes and is improved with releases every six months. It keeps improving at a rate that I think MS will have a very hard time keeping up with.

sesqu 16y ago

I can't upgrade Ubuntu without it reinstalling the things I removed, or updating the drivers I don't want updated.

eeperson 16y ago

This is one of the advantages of using 'aptitude' to install software rather than 'apt-get'. Removal takes care of unused dependencies. Beware, mixing 'apt-get' and 'aptitude' used to cause some issues, such as trying to remove software that wasn't installed with 'aptitude' (although it always asks first). I think this has been fixed in recent versions but I'm not sure.

caf 16y ago

The output of the `deborphan` command might be of interest.