5 ms·

Simple answer, your centralized database can go away tomorrow, or be arbitrarily modified. That can’t happen with the blockchain.

by woah 9y ago

fwdpropaganda 9y ago
Does that happen to your databases a lot? That's just bad engineering.
- edanm 9y ago
  That's not the troubling case. The troubling case is the company hosting the DB shutting down, and therefore the entire system becoming worthless. This is what prevents you as the customer from trusting such a system.
  - arcticfox 9y ago
    but this is what exports are for. I would be fine if gmail etc. shut down tomorrow. there's no reason to add a massive overhead to everything just to solve an already-solved problem.
    - crispyporkbites 9y ago
      What if it’s not a massive overhead? What if the tooling is as simple as setting up a database nowadays, and the performance is a known/acceptable trade off? Surely you can see there are some advantages of blockchain based tech then?
  - beefield 9y ago
    That is preventing you to trust a system where "a gaming streamer is rewarding his most loyal viewers with tokens they store in their own database and you can redeem for shoutouts or merchandise."? I would somehow think that the database technology is quite secondary to the creditworthiness of the gaming streamer when people decide whether to trust or not a token system of a gaming streamer.
    - Maybestring 9y ago
      It's the streamer who's trust you need. Whether they have their patron's trust is a separate issue.
- solarkraft 9y ago
  It's just a bit more effort. All companies sell convenience.
- woah 9y ago
  https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com
cmpolis 9y ago
Is this a real problem? Databases have been handling massive volume of transactions for decades.
meritt 9y ago
Evangelism that embraces hyperbole while demonstrating ignorance does little to further adoption of nascent technologies.
proofofmoon 9y ago
This is only useful if the bits are useful independently of the creators. For example, the gaming streamer, hiphop, and Discord tokens would be valueless without the promises of merchandise, giveaways, and upvotes.
kej 9y ago
How would this be different than the person issuing your Hexel-based tokens disappearing? The value is still tied to the single issuer.
- Maybestring 9y ago
  The person receiving the token isn't the customer, the issuer is. As an issuer, you do not have to worry about Hexel dissapearing. Presumably, the website doesn't make this clear.
  - kej 9y ago
    Right, the comment I replied to was saying that the issuer keeping a database and not doing any blockchain stuff had the risk that the database could disappear. The Hexel model doesn't seem to fix that. The issuer could still disappear, leaving the end user with a bunch of Hexel-tokens that can't be used anywhere.
simias 9y ago
Allow people to make copies and backups of the database. This way they'll re-host if the server goes away and they'll be able to detect any tempering. For bonus point sight the backups with a PGP key and issue sha-256 checksums of your database (itself already containing previous checksums) this way you can call it a blockchain and get all the hype for free.
kowdermeister 9y ago
I've heard about a thing called backups. If arbitrary modifications is your concern, you could hash a certain state or records for easy checks. Also, secure logging is an easy way to record changes. I don't say that the blockchain is useless, but it's hard to come up with use cases where it's clearly superior than databases.
- ascendantlogic 9y ago
  Any single time you don't want a central entity to control modifications and or the safety of those backups. Voting records immediately spring to mind. Any sort of civic spending and accounting also immediately comes to mind.
  - kowdermeister 9y ago
    Those use cases are in almost all of the blockchain 101-s, do you know any site or gallery where legit uses are collected?
    - ascendantlogic 9y ago
      those aren't legit use cases?

Simple answer, your centralized database can go away tomorrow, or be arbitrarily modified. That can’t happen with the blockchain.

by woah 9y ago

Simple answer, your centralized database can go away tomorrow, or be arbitrarily modified. That can’t happen with the blockchain.

fwdpropaganda 9y ago

Does that happen to your databases a lot? That's just bad engineering.

edanm 9y ago
That's not the troubling case. The troubling case is the company hosting the DB shutting down, and therefore the entire system becoming worthless. This is what prevents you as the customer from trusting such a system.
- arcticfox 9y ago
  but this is what exports are for. I would be fine if gmail etc. shut down tomorrow. there's no reason to add a massive overhead to everything just to solve an already-solved problem.
  - crispyporkbites 9y ago
    What if it’s not a massive overhead? What if the tooling is as simple as setting up a database nowadays, and the performance is a known/acceptable trade off? Surely you can see there are some advantages of blockchain based tech then?
- beefield 9y ago
  That is preventing you to trust a system where "a gaming streamer is rewarding his most loyal viewers with tokens they store in their own database and you can redeem for shoutouts or merchandise."? I would somehow think that the database technology is quite secondary to the creditworthiness of the gaming streamer when people decide whether to trust or not a token system of a gaming streamer.
  - Maybestring 9y ago
    It's the streamer who's trust you need. Whether they have their patron's trust is a separate issue.
solarkraft 9y ago
It's just a bit more effort. All companies sell convenience.
woah 9y ago
https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com

cmpolis 9y ago

Is this a real problem? Databases have been handling massive volume of transactions for decades.

meritt 9y ago

Evangelism that embraces hyperbole while demonstrating ignorance does little to further adoption of nascent technologies.

proofofmoon 9y ago

This is only useful if the bits are useful independently of the creators. For example, the gaming streamer, hiphop, and Discord tokens would be valueless without the promises of merchandise, giveaways, and upvotes.

kej 9y ago

How would this be different than the person issuing your Hexel-based tokens disappearing? The value is still tied to the single issuer.

Maybestring 9y ago
The person receiving the token isn't the customer, the issuer is. As an issuer, you do not have to worry about Hexel dissapearing. Presumably, the website doesn't make this clear.
- kej 9y ago
  Right, the comment I replied to was saying that the issuer keeping a database and not doing any blockchain stuff had the risk that the database could disappear. The Hexel model doesn't seem to fix that. The issuer could still disappear, leaving the end user with a bunch of Hexel-tokens that can't be used anywhere.

simias 9y ago

Allow people to make copies and backups of the database. This way they'll re-host if the server goes away and they'll be able to detect any tempering. For bonus point sight the backups with a PGP key and issue sha-256 checksums of your database (itself already containing previous checksums) this way you can call it a blockchain and get all the hype for free.

kowdermeister 9y ago

I've heard about a thing called backups. If arbitrary modifications is your concern, you could hash a certain state or records for easy checks. Also, secure logging is an easy way to record changes. I don't say that the blockchain is useless, but it's hard to come up with use cases where it's clearly superior than databases.

ascendantlogic 9y ago
Any single time you don't want a central entity to control modifications and or the safety of those backups. Voting records immediately spring to mind. Any sort of civic spending and accounting also immediately comes to mind.
- kowdermeister 9y ago
  Those use cases are in almost all of the blockchain 101-s, do you know any site or gallery where legit uses are collected?
  - ascendantlogic 9y ago
    those aren't legit use cases?