4 ms·

Is there any metric that includes a "livable employment rate"? I.e. does employment count if you aren't making enough to get by on? With the growing class divi

Is there any metric that includes a "livable employment rate"? I.e. does employment count if you aren't making enough to get by on? With the growing class divide and inflation, how much does being employed matter if you need two or three jobs to get by?

kaycebasques 9y ago
Perhaps you could infer it by looking at the number of people that are working 2 or more jobs? If that data exists...
- adventured 9y ago
  The BLS does indeed provide that data. The total number of multiple job holders is at 8.1 million, representing 5.2% of the total persons employed. As a percentage that's approximately where it was in 2006-2007 before the great recession. The peak during the great recession period was around 5.5%. That figure has climbed slightly year over year, from 7.980 million to 8.130 million. That might imply slight stress in the labor market, in terms of cost vs wages, but nothing significant yet. It also might indicate there are some good paying side jobs that have become available due to the labor scarcity and people are snapping them up to improve their financial situation. The coming year will be interesting, as to whether the much anticipated wage growth finally shows up, or whether we're trapped in a Japan debt box of perpetual low inflation and low wage growth despite very low unemployment.
  - refurb 9y ago
    Is that multiple jobs at the same time or just more than one job in a given year? Curious how they count it.
    - adventured 9y ago
      It's more than one job at the same time, during the measured period of time. The BLS routinely polls for why as well. Typically it's about 1/3 say it's to earn more money, 1/3 say it's specifically to deal with debt, and ~15% will say it's for enjoyment (they like the second job). Multi-job holding peaked (all-time high) in 1995 at around 6.8%.
edanm 9y ago
How would you measure that? "Enough to get by on" is very different in different situations (single, family, young, old, etc).
- zwieback 9y ago
  Economists usually use the (local) cost of a "basket of goods" to figure that out. What goes into the basket is a political choice, though.
  - dalbasal 9y ago
    That would be income adjusted for PPP, similar to adjusted for inflation. Still not quite what the OP wants, I suspect. I think we means "how many people earn enough to live decently, but that's hard. I might be a 20 to student in Paris living on €1,200, consider myself fairly well off. House-sharing, couch surfing holidays, €1 drinks every Tuesday ..student living. A 40 yo might consider this a poverty income. "Getting by" generally seems objective enough at first glance (rent on basic accomodation, etc), but culture and expectations play a big role. Also expectations about the future and stuff. Basically , it's complicated. ..and outside the scope of an "measure," imo. I think it's more useful to construct a picture from several simpler, more objective sources. Add up "living costs" to get your "minimum decent living' and then see how many people/households/workers have that much income. It's never gonna be a real measure though, because "decent living" depends on circumstances.
  - edanm 9y ago
    An answer to you and to most of the other comments in this thread: This isn't what I was getting at. Take for example university students. Their earning power is significantly smaller than more experienced people. They also tend to need a lot less money, because they're usually single, don't often have a mortgage, live in a small apartment or in their parent's house, etc. Many students work part-time in a restaurant or similar. For them, this will probably be a "livable wage", whether because their needs are smaller as discussed, or because they're relying to some extent on their parents. Take another person of the same age, but who has a family and no parents for support, and assume they earn the same. For them, this same wage is not livable. How would you statistically separate these cases? I'm not saying there isn't a way, I'm just wondering what it is!
maxerickson 9y ago
That gets studied using assessments of household income and relative poverty and the like. (those studies will often separate earned income from other income, so they do measure the impact of employment)
mc32 9y ago
Official unemployment is usually U3, but there are the U4 (discouraged), U5 (have not looked recently, out of market), U6 (underemployed). But nothing like are able to work physically and mentally, just don't have a job or don't want a job at current remuneration.

kaycebasques 9y ago

Perhaps you could infer it by looking at the number of people that are working 2 or more jobs? If that data exists...

adventured 9y ago
The BLS does indeed provide that data. The total number of multiple job holders is at 8.1 million, representing 5.2% of the total persons employed. As a percentage that's approximately where it was in 2006-2007 before the great recession. The peak during the great recession period was around 5.5%. That figure has climbed slightly year over year, from 7.980 million to 8.130 million. That might imply slight stress in the labor market, in terms of cost vs wages, but nothing significant yet. It also might indicate there are some good paying side jobs that have become available due to the labor scarcity and people are snapping them up to improve their financial situation. The coming year will be interesting, as to whether the much anticipated wage growth finally shows up, or whether we're trapped in a Japan debt box of perpetual low inflation and low wage growth despite very low unemployment.
- refurb 9y ago
  Is that multiple jobs at the same time or just more than one job in a given year? Curious how they count it.
  - adventured 9y ago
    It's more than one job at the same time, during the measured period of time. The BLS routinely polls for why as well. Typically it's about 1/3 say it's to earn more money, 1/3 say it's specifically to deal with debt, and ~15% will say it's for enjoyment (they like the second job). Multi-job holding peaked (all-time high) in 1995 at around 6.8%.

edanm 9y ago

How would you measure that? "Enough to get by on" is very different in different situations (single, family, young, old, etc).

zwieback 9y ago
Economists usually use the (local) cost of a "basket of goods" to figure that out. What goes into the basket is a political choice, though.
- dalbasal 9y ago
  That would be income adjusted for PPP, similar to adjusted for inflation. Still not quite what the OP wants, I suspect. I think we means "how many people earn enough to live decently, but that's hard. I might be a 20 to student in Paris living on €1,200, consider myself fairly well off. House-sharing, couch surfing holidays, €1 drinks every Tuesday ..student living. A 40 yo might consider this a poverty income. "Getting by" generally seems objective enough at first glance (rent on basic accomodation, etc), but culture and expectations play a big role. Also expectations about the future and stuff. Basically , it's complicated. ..and outside the scope of an "measure," imo. I think it's more useful to construct a picture from several simpler, more objective sources. Add up "living costs" to get your "minimum decent living' and then see how many people/households/workers have that much income. It's never gonna be a real measure though, because "decent living" depends on circumstances.
- edanm 9y ago
  An answer to you and to most of the other comments in this thread: This isn't what I was getting at. Take for example university students. Their earning power is significantly smaller than more experienced people. They also tend to need a lot less money, because they're usually single, don't often have a mortgage, live in a small apartment or in their parent's house, etc. Many students work part-time in a restaurant or similar. For them, this will probably be a "livable wage", whether because their needs are smaller as discussed, or because they're relying to some extent on their parents. Take another person of the same age, but who has a family and no parents for support, and assume they earn the same. For them, this same wage is not livable. How would you statistically separate these cases? I'm not saying there isn't a way, I'm just wondering what it is!

maxerickson 9y ago

That gets studied using assessments of household income and relative poverty and the like. (those studies will often separate earned income from other income, so they do measure the impact of employment)

mc32 9y ago

Official unemployment is usually U3, but there are the U4 (discouraged), U5 (have not looked recently, out of market), U6 (underemployed). But nothing like are able to work physically and mentally, just don't have a job or don't want a job at current remuneration.