8 ms·

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this

by fosco 9y ago

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this -- I had not heard this previously.

brudgers 9y ago
The title of the article Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human (and Neanderthal) History directly implies that such people are less human due to carrying more Neanderthal DNA. That the subject of the implication is non-Europeans has a long tradition in the mainstream US magazine business. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/from-the-editor-race-racism-history/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/from-the...
ryandvm 9y ago
I have not heard that either. According to 23andMe, I'm in the 99th percentile for Neanderthal DNA variants and my ancestry report claims I'm a disappointingly un-diverse 99.9% European.
- fein 9y ago
  > disappointingly un-diverse I... What does this even mean? Are you ashamed of your heritage?
  - jbeales 9y ago
    It probably means he was hoping for a fun surprise, (Something like You're 10% Inca!), but didn't get one. I did the same thing - my Ancestry test came back with a whole lot of "Western Europe" - even more than I expected, actually.
    - emmelaich 9y ago
      Yep. I got a 23andme test. Told me nothing I didn't already know.
      - creep 9y ago
        My friend's father did a DNA test and found out he was some portion Ashkenazi Jew. He went around screaming about it for a week, so proud that his genetic line birthed Albert Einstein.
  - tartuffe78 9y ago
    It would be more interesting to find something unexpected I would think.
  - kapilkaisare 9y ago
    I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why. I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion. I would expect this outlook of anyone with a cosmopolitan upbringing by default, as well as anyone who has exposed himself or herself to other cultures via media (books, movies, etc..).
    - fein 9y ago
      We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.
      - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
        It's pretty much frowned upon to be in any way proud to be a pale skinned European; mainstream media demands we feel shame for all the oppression we did in the centuries before our birth. That said, I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me.
        fein 9y ago
        You use 'we' to describe your collective, showing you understand the concept of heritage, and then go on and say you don't understand pride in your people. Only whites seem to have this internal conflict, and that makes far less sense than being proud of the society your people created.
        elboru 9y ago
        >I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me. I guess it all depends where you draw the line, do you feel proud of your parents? Some people will say "No, I only feel proud about what I accomplished myself." And that's ok, that's his point of view, we could say this is a subjective matter, from my point of view, I feel proud of who I'm, I'm proud of my parents, and then I can extend that line and say I'm proud of my community, my city, my country, my civilization, I'm proud of being part of humanity, obviously that "proudness" will increase when that line is nearer to me, in other words the more relatable to myself the prouder I can be.
- emddudley 9y ago
  IMO you should never be disappointed with your genetic makeup. It's part of what makes you you, and I can't think of any meaningful difference between people with ancestors from many regions and those with ancestors from one region.
- mc32 9y ago
  I don't think I'd ever hear a non white say they are disappointed with being 100% what they are, be they Asian, Black, etc. Maybe there are, I've never home across them, but a few whites have this tendency to wish for having "interesting" ancestry like sen. Warren. It's something odd. As if they are somewhat uncomfortable on their own skin. Shame is the wrong word, but i can't find the right descriptor. On the other hand, i think this points to social pressures that make people feel that way about themselves.
  - allthenews 9y ago
    What you are seeing is simply a reflection of what is socially acceptable.
    - mc32 9y ago
      So you're saying whites have the privilege of wishing they had "interesting" DNA history, but others don't have that privilege, even with all they have in say East Asia. I think it's more with social cues and pressures.
      - allthenews 9y ago
        What? This isn't about privilege, this is about fashion, and white guilt is increasingly in.
        smhost 9y ago
        And of course, it's not the white guilt that's in fashion. It's the black pride that's in fashion, as it always has been.
        mc32 9y ago
        What? I don't get any of either those assertions. People should be comfortable with who they are. I don't think pride is necessary, but also unnecessary and probably detrimental is to feel uncomfortable with yourself, be that anything, in this case ancestry.
- sct202 9y ago
  23andme results are subject to change. A few years ago when they first released their Neanderthal estimates, I was at the top of my contact list, but recently I'm like second to last.
- KittiHawk 9y ago
  My parents had always told me their grandparents were part Seminole. I liked that because it made me feel more connected to my home. To find out (through a 23andMe report showing 99.9% Euro genes) it wasn't true was unsettling, like I'm not really who I thought I was and also have much less of a connection to the area. Also disappointed because it means someone in my family lied to all of us about where they came from.
  - JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
    I'm not sure of the exact math but it seems like both things could still be true. We don't get equal portions of genes from each ancestor.
jbeales 9y ago
It makes fairly logical sense. Neanderthals were fairly well-installed in Europe when modern humans appeared in Africa. As modern humans would have expanded northward into Europe, done their thing with the Neanderthals, (some breeding, lots of killing), and continued eastward, so the human population still in Africa would probably have no Neanderthal DNA, but the population in Asia would carry the results of some interbreeding with Neanderthals. The question this brings up is how different are Neanderthals from Homo sapiens? I was taught that the definition of a species is that two individuals could reproduce and have fertile offspring. It seems there are exceptions to this rule, (as Neanderthals and Homo sapiens are different species).
- noelwelsh 9y ago
  I don't think the concept of a species is well defined. Tiger and lions can interbreed, as can donkeys and horses. And then there are ring species. Biology does whatever it does and then humans try to fit words around it. Edit: correct mules to horses
  - mhluongo 9y ago
    You're thinking donkeys and horses. I believe a mule is the sterile result of that interbreeding.
    - sampo 9y ago
      Mules are mostly sterile, but not 100%. Wikipedia reports some cases where female mules have produced offspring.
      - tabtab 9y ago
        Interbreeding can be ranked on a scale. The less related the groups are, the more problems there are with reproducing. Perhaps a hard boundary of "species" can be drawn where the probability of successful offspring approaches zero. However, that's difficult to measure in practice.
- 9y ago
Real_S 9y ago
The intermixing was complex. Many groups migrating and interbreeding at various times. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/science/a-new-theory-on-how-neanderthal-dna-spread-in-asia.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/science/a-new-theory-on-h...
- tabtab 9y ago
  Perhaps we really should be called Homohumpian or Homomuttus.

by fosco 9y ago

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this -- I had not heard this previously.

brudgers 9y ago

The title of the article Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human (and Neanderthal) History directly implies that such people are less human due to carrying more Neanderthal DNA. That the subject of the implication is non-Europeans has a long tradition in the mainstream US magazine business. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/from-the-editor-race-racism-history/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/from-the...

ryandvm 9y ago

I have not heard that either. According to 23andMe, I'm in the 99th percentile for Neanderthal DNA variants and my ancestry report claims I'm a disappointingly un-diverse 99.9% European.

fein 9y ago
> disappointingly un-diverse I... What does this even mean? Are you ashamed of your heritage?
- jbeales 9y ago
  It probably means he was hoping for a fun surprise, (Something like You're 10% Inca!), but didn't get one. I did the same thing - my Ancestry test came back with a whole lot of "Western Europe" - even more than I expected, actually.
  - emmelaich 9y ago
    Yep. I got a 23andme test. Told me nothing I didn't already know.
    - creep 9y ago
      My friend's father did a DNA test and found out he was some portion Ashkenazi Jew. He went around screaming about it for a week, so proud that his genetic line birthed Albert Einstein.
- tartuffe78 9y ago
  It would be more interesting to find something unexpected I would think.
- kapilkaisare 9y ago
  I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why. I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion. I would expect this outlook of anyone with a cosmopolitan upbringing by default, as well as anyone who has exposed himself or herself to other cultures via media (books, movies, etc..).
  - fein 9y ago
    We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      It's pretty much frowned upon to be in any way proud to be a pale skinned European; mainstream media demands we feel shame for all the oppression we did in the centuries before our birth. That said, I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me.
      - fein 9y ago
        You use 'we' to describe your collective, showing you understand the concept of heritage, and then go on and say you don't understand pride in your people. Only whites seem to have this internal conflict, and that makes far less sense than being proud of the society your people created.
      - elboru 9y ago
        >I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me. I guess it all depends where you draw the line, do you feel proud of your parents? Some people will say "No, I only feel proud about what I accomplished myself." And that's ok, that's his point of view, we could say this is a subjective matter, from my point of view, I feel proud of who I'm, I'm proud of my parents, and then I can extend that line and say I'm proud of my community, my city, my country, my civilization, I'm proud of being part of humanity, obviously that "proudness" will increase when that line is nearer to me, in other words the more relatable to myself the prouder I can be.
emddudley 9y ago
IMO you should never be disappointed with your genetic makeup. It's part of what makes you you, and I can't think of any meaningful difference between people with ancestors from many regions and those with ancestors from one region.
mc32 9y ago
I don't think I'd ever hear a non white say they are disappointed with being 100% what they are, be they Asian, Black, etc. Maybe there are, I've never home across them, but a few whites have this tendency to wish for having "interesting" ancestry like sen. Warren. It's something odd. As if they are somewhat uncomfortable on their own skin. Shame is the wrong word, but i can't find the right descriptor. On the other hand, i think this points to social pressures that make people feel that way about themselves.
- allthenews 9y ago
  What you are seeing is simply a reflection of what is socially acceptable.
  - mc32 9y ago
    So you're saying whites have the privilege of wishing they had "interesting" DNA history, but others don't have that privilege, even with all they have in say East Asia. I think it's more with social cues and pressures.
    - allthenews 9y ago
      What? This isn't about privilege, this is about fashion, and white guilt is increasingly in.
      - smhost 9y ago
        And of course, it's not the white guilt that's in fashion. It's the black pride that's in fashion, as it always has been.
        mc32 9y ago
        What? I don't get any of either those assertions. People should be comfortable with who they are. I don't think pride is necessary, but also unnecessary and probably detrimental is to feel uncomfortable with yourself, be that anything, in this case ancestry.
sct202 9y ago
23andme results are subject to change. A few years ago when they first released their Neanderthal estimates, I was at the top of my contact list, but recently I'm like second to last.
KittiHawk 9y ago
My parents had always told me their grandparents were part Seminole. I liked that because it made me feel more connected to my home. To find out (through a 23andMe report showing 99.9% Euro genes) it wasn't true was unsettling, like I'm not really who I thought I was and also have much less of a connection to the area. Also disappointed because it means someone in my family lied to all of us about where they came from.
- JohnJamesRambo 9y ago
  I'm not sure of the exact math but it seems like both things could still be true. We don't get equal portions of genes from each ancestor.

jbeales 9y ago

It makes fairly logical sense. Neanderthals were fairly well-installed in Europe when modern humans appeared in Africa. As modern humans would have expanded northward into Europe, done their thing with the Neanderthals, (some breeding, lots of killing), and continued eastward, so the human population still in Africa would probably have no Neanderthal DNA, but the population in Asia would carry the results of some interbreeding with Neanderthals. The question this brings up is how different are Neanderthals from Homo sapiens? I was taught that the definition of a species is that two individuals could reproduce and have fertile offspring. It seems there are exceptions to this rule, (as Neanderthals and Homo sapiens are different species).

noelwelsh 9y ago
I don't think the concept of a species is well defined. Tiger and lions can interbreed, as can donkeys and horses. And then there are ring species. Biology does whatever it does and then humans try to fit words around it. Edit: correct mules to horses
- mhluongo 9y ago
  You're thinking donkeys and horses. I believe a mule is the sterile result of that interbreeding.
  - sampo 9y ago
    Mules are mostly sterile, but not 100%. Wikipedia reports some cases where female mules have produced offspring.
    - tabtab 9y ago
      Interbreeding can be ranked on a scale. The less related the groups are, the more problems there are with reproducing. Perhaps a hard boundary of "species" can be drawn where the probability of successful offspring approaches zero. However, that's difficult to measure in practice.
9y ago

Real_S 9y ago

The intermixing was complex. Many groups migrating and interbreeding at various times. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/science/a-new-theory-on-how-neanderthal-dna-spread-in-asia.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/science/a-new-theory-on-h...

tabtab 9y ago
Perhaps we really should be called Homohumpian or Homomuttus.