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I work in a Hedge Fund: my first reaction reading this article was to wonder how someone can be so stupid to even try something like that. Then I read your comm

by Xixi 9y ago

I work in a Hedge Fund: my first reaction reading this article was to wonder how someone can be so stupid to even try something like that. Then I read your comment and realize that in fact, the rest of the world (people not in Finance) actually think that you can get away with this. He probably thought that everybody is doing it, so why not? Well, turns out that no, you can't do that, and yes, you can and will get prosecuted for it. So no message sent to Wall Street, we got that memo a long long time ago. Geeks thinking they know everything and disregarding all regulations, however, should take a long, hard look at it. Finance and anything touching it (like securities, which most crypto-currencies are) is very very very heavily regulated.

kevindqc 9y ago
Ah yeah, I remember when people went to jail because of the 2008 financial crisis. (sure, apparently nothing illegal was done, it was just recklessness and poor judgement, but I see why people would think wall street always get off scot-free)
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > commits a securities crime >> the 2008 financial crisis The problem evidenced by the 2008 crisis was that many destructive behaviors were not, in fact, illegal. (Some were, and many of those people are barred from industry or going to jail [1].) [1] http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/news/libor-scandal-tom-hayes-jail/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/news/libor-scandal-tom-hayes...
  - kevindqc 9y ago
    Yeah which is too bad. If you're reckless in your car and get into an accident, can you be jailed? Yes, for reckless endangerment. Why is there no such thing in the financial world, especially after 2008 :(
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > Why is there no such thing in the financial world, especially after 2008 Recklessness is well defined in respect of cars. (It wasn't when they first came out.) Recklessness is well defined in respect of selling stocks and bonds. (It wasn't a century ago.) Recklessness was not well defined in respect of certain new financial products in 2008. It is now.
      - mcny 9y ago
        > Recklessness was not well defined in respect of certain new financial products in 2008. It is now. I am not too well-versed with laws and legislations (especially because everything sounds partisan) but are you talking about Dodd Frank? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street... The last I read about it, Congress is trying to get rid of it, no? Is there some other regulation that makes what was not against the law in 2008 (actually I don't know much about this either) against the law now?
- deadmetheny 9y ago
  Except for that part where people did go to jail[1], it's just that they were all from smaller institutions rather than any of the top executives from national banks. That is certainly a problem, but it does illustrate that if you (like most of us) are a nobody, you're not necessarily gonna get away with anything. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/28/news/companies/bankers-prison/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/28/news/companies/bankers-priso...
  - kevindqc 9y ago
    Well the example they give, Edward Woodard, is someone who got 23 years sentence for fraud, which is not really related to what happened during the 2008 financial crisis? >From 2008 to 2011, Woodard and Stephen Fields, a former executive vice president and commercial loan officer at the bank, hid the bank’s financial condition, authorities said. Bank insiders also gave preferential financing to troubled borrowers to buy properties Bank of the Commonwealth owned, prosecutors said. So that was after the crisis - they wanted to hide how bad it affected them?
  - camelite 9y ago
    That's the second time in two days I've seen that cited in response to the claim no Banker went to jail. But as far as I can make out it's about Tarp fraud, which came at the crisis. Wheres it coming from, first Google result?
tw04 9y ago
I mean, at this point three of the four DID get away with it. Not to mention we haven't heard a peep about the Intel CEO also selling stock prior to the meltdown/spectre public announcements. So... https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/03/equifax-special-committee-says-executive-stock-sales-were-in-the-clear.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/03/equifax-special-committee-sa...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Xixi 9y ago
  I'm going to take the cynical approach: assuming that all politicians are corrupt anyway, a newly elected senator might accept a huge amount of cash in an envelope in exchange of legislation/contracts/whatever. That will make any other senator laugh: you have to be way way way more sophisticated about it. Be paid to do a talk at some random conference (after your term), get a nice cozy seat at the board of said company you helped (after your term), etc. If the article is correct, what this guy did is just plain stupid. But I'm not claiming you can't get away with doing something similar with good enough legal advice. This I do not know (IANAL).
  - pixl97 9y ago
    >: assuming that all politicians are corrupt anyway, Why would the politician need money. After the change insider trading where congress cannot be investigated, all you need to do it tip them off before major news and they can make their own 'cash envelope'.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

by Xixi 9y ago

kevindqc 9y ago

Ah yeah, I remember when people went to jail because of the 2008 financial crisis. (sure, apparently nothing illegal was done, it was just recklessness and poor judgement, but I see why people would think wall street always get off scot-free)

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> commits a securities crime >> the 2008 financial crisis The problem evidenced by the 2008 crisis was that many destructive behaviors were not, in fact, illegal. (Some were, and many of those people are barred from industry or going to jail [1].) [1] http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/news/libor-scandal-tom-hayes-jail/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/03/news/libor-scandal-tom-hayes...
- kevindqc 9y ago
  Yeah which is too bad. If you're reckless in your car and get into an accident, can you be jailed? Yes, for reckless endangerment. Why is there no such thing in the financial world, especially after 2008 :(
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Why is there no such thing in the financial world, especially after 2008 Recklessness is well defined in respect of cars. (It wasn't when they first came out.) Recklessness is well defined in respect of selling stocks and bonds. (It wasn't a century ago.) Recklessness was not well defined in respect of certain new financial products in 2008. It is now.
    - mcny 9y ago
      > Recklessness was not well defined in respect of certain new financial products in 2008. It is now. I am not too well-versed with laws and legislations (especially because everything sounds partisan) but are you talking about Dodd Frank? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street_Reform_and_Consumer_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodd%E2%80%93Frank_Wall_Street... The last I read about it, Congress is trying to get rid of it, no? Is there some other regulation that makes what was not against the law in 2008 (actually I don't know much about this either) against the law now?
deadmetheny 9y ago
Except for that part where people did go to jail[1], it's just that they were all from smaller institutions rather than any of the top executives from national banks. That is certainly a problem, but it does illustrate that if you (like most of us) are a nobody, you're not necessarily gonna get away with anything. [1] http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/28/news/companies/bankers-prison/index.html http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/28/news/companies/bankers-priso...
- kevindqc 9y ago
  Well the example they give, Edward Woodard, is someone who got 23 years sentence for fraud, which is not really related to what happened during the 2008 financial crisis? >From 2008 to 2011, Woodard and Stephen Fields, a former executive vice president and commercial loan officer at the bank, hid the bank’s financial condition, authorities said. Bank insiders also gave preferential financing to troubled borrowers to buy properties Bank of the Commonwealth owned, prosecutors said. So that was after the crisis - they wanted to hide how bad it affected them?
- camelite 9y ago
  That's the second time in two days I've seen that cited in response to the claim no Banker went to jail. But as far as I can make out it's about Tarp fraud, which came at the crisis. Wheres it coming from, first Google result?

tw04 9y ago

I mean, at this point three of the four DID get away with it. Not to mention we haven't heard a peep about the Intel CEO also selling stock prior to the meltdown/spectre public announcements. So... https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/03/equifax-special-committee-says-executive-stock-sales-were-in-the-clear.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/03/equifax-special-committee-sa...

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Xixi 9y ago
I'm going to take the cynical approach: assuming that all politicians are corrupt anyway, a newly elected senator might accept a huge amount of cash in an envelope in exchange of legislation/contracts/whatever. That will make any other senator laugh: you have to be way way way more sophisticated about it. Be paid to do a talk at some random conference (after your term), get a nice cozy seat at the board of said company you helped (after your term), etc. If the article is correct, what this guy did is just plain stupid. But I'm not claiming you can't get away with doing something similar with good enough legal advice. This I do not know (IANAL).
- pixl97 9y ago
  >: assuming that all politicians are corrupt anyway, Why would the politician need money. After the change insider trading where congress cannot be investigated, all you need to do it tip them off before major news and they can make their own 'cash envelope'.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]