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Let's also remember it matters where the electricity comes from. You're not necessarily going green if you use coal-based electricity. Source: https://www.elec

Let's also remember it matters where the electricity comes from. You're not necessarily going green if you use coal-based electricity. Source: https://www.electricitymap.org https://www.electricitymap.org

Diederich 9y ago
> You're not necessarily going green if you use coal-based electricity. Agreed. At the same time, moving from direct use of fossil fuels to even indirect use of fossil fuels via electricity is a real move that at a minimum facilitates future sustainability.
- geofftrojans 9y ago
  Exactly. Theoretically, it is much easier to improve efficiency and reduce emissions if power generation is consolidated in one place.
Robotbeat 9y ago
In the US, coal electricity is now just 30% of the grid, compared to 32% for other fossil fuels (almost all natural gas), and actually 38% for emissions-free (half of that is nuclear and the other half a mix of wind, hydro, solar, and geothermal roughly in that order). That means the US CO2 emissions per kWh are significantly better than Germany, by the way. And beware of old data. Even a couple years makes a difference. From 2014 to 2017, CO2 emitted per kWh has dropped by 13%. (My figures mostly come from here, which has up to date info through December 2017: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_1_01 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... along with calculations for emissions per kWh based on efficiency and CO2 per heat unit for a given fuel source.)
- somecallitblues 9y ago
  “That means the US CO2 emissions per kWh are significantly better than Germany, by the way." what? Where did you get that from?
  - Robotbeat 9y ago
    In 2016, Germany produced about 560g of CO2 per kWh of electricity: http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/2/11/german-electricity-was-nearly-10-times-dirtier-than-frances-in-2016 http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/2/11/german-e... By my calculations [1,2,3], the US produced approximately 450g of CO2 per kWh in 2016. And note that the difference is due almost entirely because the US still gets ~19% of its electricity from nuclear power but Germany does not (450g/(1-.19) = ~560). For all of Germany's effort in renewables at great cost, all it has done (besides helping to fund the technology, which is useful) is compensate for the retirement of nuclear in Germany. [1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_1_01 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... [2] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_a_03.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_a_03.html [3] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_01.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_01.html
  - rsynnott 9y ago
    Germany has a lot of coal in its grid. Mind you, It also uses half the electricity per capita vs the US.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Norway gets most of its energy from renewable sources (99% of mainland electricity). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Norway. This greatly exceeds any state in the west (the closest being Washington State, who gets 75% of their energy from hydro).
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  I came here to comment the same. Oddly enough, you can still pay an extra fee on your electric bill to be certain the energy comes from a clean energy source. My house does so.
- napoleond 9y ago
  > This greatly exceeds any state in the west Technically true regarding states, but there are several Canadian provinces which get more than 95% of their energy from renewables, some of whom are serving a larger population base than Norway.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Sorry, I meant the USA, not west! It was a big typo on my part. BC is in much the same boat as Washington, as are Oregon and Idaho to lesser extents.
  - phaemon 9y ago
    Just one: Quebec
singularity2001 9y ago
land based coal plants are much cleaner then ship engines
justinph 9y ago
The article states the power comes from hydro, not coal.
rsynnott 9y ago
They don’t use a lot of coal in Norway. Actually, none for electricity; mostly hydro with some gas.

Diederich 9y ago

> You're not necessarily going green if you use coal-based electricity. Agreed. At the same time, moving from direct use of fossil fuels to even indirect use of fossil fuels via electricity is a real move that at a minimum facilitates future sustainability.

geofftrojans 9y ago
Exactly. Theoretically, it is much easier to improve efficiency and reduce emissions if power generation is consolidated in one place.

Robotbeat 9y ago

In the US, coal electricity is now just 30% of the grid, compared to 32% for other fossil fuels (almost all natural gas), and actually 38% for emissions-free (half of that is nuclear and the other half a mix of wind, hydro, solar, and geothermal roughly in that order). That means the US CO2 emissions per kWh are significantly better than Germany, by the way. And beware of old data. Even a couple years makes a difference. From 2014 to 2017, CO2 emitted per kWh has dropped by 13%. (My figures mostly come from here, which has up to date info through December 2017: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_1_01 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... along with calculations for emissions per kWh based on efficiency and CO2 per heat unit for a given fuel source.)

somecallitblues 9y ago
“That means the US CO2 emissions per kWh are significantly better than Germany, by the way." what? Where did you get that from?
- Robotbeat 9y ago
  In 2016, Germany produced about 560g of CO2 per kWh of electricity: http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/2/11/german-electricity-was-nearly-10-times-dirtier-than-frances-in-2016 http://environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/2/11/german-e... By my calculations [1,2,3], the US produced approximately 450g of CO2 per kWh in 2016. And note that the difference is due almost entirely because the US still gets ~19% of its electricity from nuclear power but Germany does not (450g/(1-.19) = ~560). For all of Germany's effort in renewables at great cost, all it has done (besides helping to fund the technology, which is useful) is compensate for the retirement of nuclear in Germany. [1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_1_01 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... [2] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_a_03.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_a_03.html [3] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_01.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_01.html
- rsynnott 9y ago
  Germany has a lot of coal in its grid. Mind you, It also uses half the electricity per capita vs the US.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Norway gets most of its energy from renewable sources (99% of mainland electricity). See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Norway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Norway. This greatly exceeds any state in the west (the closest being Washington State, who gets 75% of their energy from hydro).

Broken_Hippo 9y ago
I came here to comment the same. Oddly enough, you can still pay an extra fee on your electric bill to be certain the energy comes from a clean energy source. My house does so.
napoleond 9y ago
> This greatly exceeds any state in the west Technically true regarding states, but there are several Canadian provinces which get more than 95% of their energy from renewables, some of whom are serving a larger population base than Norway.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Sorry, I meant the USA, not west! It was a big typo on my part. BC is in much the same boat as Washington, as are Oregon and Idaho to lesser extents.
- phaemon 9y ago
  Just one: Quebec

singularity2001 9y ago

land based coal plants are much cleaner then ship engines

justinph 9y ago

The article states the power comes from hydro, not coal.

rsynnott 9y ago

They don’t use a lot of coal in Norway. Actually, none for electricity; mostly hydro with some gas.