3 ms·

There's also a similar scene in Altered Carbon

satori99 9y ago
Iain M Banks' Culture novel, Surface Detail, also deals with the idea of eternal digital heavens and hells. Many of them are run by corporations. Some civilizations even send young sinners on day trips to hell to keep them on the 'right' path. Scary stuff. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  Back in 1965, Stanislaw Lem wrote in his Cyberiad about a sadistic king who was given a virtual world to rule over. The king gleefully proceeded to torture its virtual inhabitants. Lem has a lot to say on the ethics of this. You can read this remarkable story and Douglas Hofstadter's and Daniel Dennett's commentary on it here: https://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-18-seventh-sally-or-how-trurls.html https://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-18-seventh-sal...
wavefunction 9y ago
"What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output." Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"
mirimir 9y ago
It's rather a key theme of the Kovach trilogy. Envoys get reconstructed to resist digital torture. "Get to the next screen." Edit: The novels are much better than the Netflix videos. They are, in my opinion, crude hacks. Randomized and simplified. The virtual torture sequence in Altered Carbon is vastly more horrible than the one in the video. Even if I didn't care about spoilers, I'd hesitate to describe it here. And if you like Kovach, check out Stover's Caine novels. He also wrote the Star Wars novels, but don't hold that against him.
- WatermelonApe 9y ago
  I watched the Netflix series and I really liked the premise but found the story and acting lacking in some areas. However I really liked the noir protagonist and the scene you described was my favorite episode in the show. I am interested how the story continues. Are the books much better than the show? How would you rate the trilogy among your favorite cyberpunk novels? Thanks.
  - e12e 9y ago
    I'd rate the second book (broken angels) as one of my favourite sci-fi books (which might include tiger,Tiger/the stars my destination, neuromancer, fire upon the deep, holy Fire... There are many great ones). I started with that one though, and then read the other two. I'd say overall as a triology, it rates alongside neuromancer /the sprawl triology. A little more pulp - but a similar serious take on technological evolution. [ed: the netflix series is to ac, a little like the Johnny Mnemonic film is to the short story. Although the series is a bit closer to the books]
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Broken Angels is also my favorite. Kovacs is an extremely complex character. He's been tweaked so much, in becoming an Envoy, that he's fundamentally an AI. He's somewhat like the vampires in Peter Watts' novels. Also, I'm very impressed by Morgan's skill in writing action. Maybe that's what you mean by "pulp". I also loved the "A Land Fit For Heroes" trilogy. I hadn't read fantasy for years. And from that, I discovered Joe Abercrombie and Matthew Woodring Stover.
  - e12e 9y ago
    By the way, Bruce Sterling's "Holy Fire" offers some thoughts on extended life, in a more near-future, no jumping bodies/sleeves setting.
  - mdekkers 9y ago
    Are the books much better than the show? Significantly. I have read the trilogy several times, and the Netflix series, whilst cool, doesn't come close to the depth and pacing of the books.

Iain M Banks' Culture novel, Surface Detail, also deals with the idea of eternal digital heavens and hells. Many of them are run by corporations. Some civilizations even send young sinners on day trips to hell to keep them on the 'right' path. Scary stuff. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Detail

pmoriarty 9y ago
Back in 1965, Stanislaw Lem wrote in his Cyberiad about a sadistic king who was given a virtual world to rule over. The king gleefully proceeded to torture its virtual inhabitants. Lem has a lot to say on the ethics of this. You can read this remarkable story and Douglas Hofstadter's and Daniel Dennett's commentary on it here: https://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-18-seventh-sally-or-how-trurls.html https://themindi.blogspot.com/2007/02/chapter-18-seventh-sal...

wavefunction 9y ago

"What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output." Chairman Sheng-ji Yang, "Essays on Mind and Matter"

mirimir 9y ago

It's rather a key theme of the Kovach trilogy. Envoys get reconstructed to resist digital torture. "Get to the next screen." Edit: The novels are much better than the Netflix videos. They are, in my opinion, crude hacks. Randomized and simplified. The virtual torture sequence in Altered Carbon is vastly more horrible than the one in the video. Even if I didn't care about spoilers, I'd hesitate to describe it here. And if you like Kovach, check out Stover's Caine novels. He also wrote the Star Wars novels, but don't hold that against him.

WatermelonApe 9y ago
I watched the Netflix series and I really liked the premise but found the story and acting lacking in some areas. However I really liked the noir protagonist and the scene you described was my favorite episode in the show. I am interested how the story continues. Are the books much better than the show? How would you rate the trilogy among your favorite cyberpunk novels? Thanks.
- e12e 9y ago
  I'd rate the second book (broken angels) as one of my favourite sci-fi books (which might include tiger,Tiger/the stars my destination, neuromancer, fire upon the deep, holy Fire... There are many great ones). I started with that one though, and then read the other two. I'd say overall as a triology, it rates alongside neuromancer /the sprawl triology. A little more pulp - but a similar serious take on technological evolution. [ed: the netflix series is to ac, a little like the Johnny Mnemonic film is to the short story. Although the series is a bit closer to the books]
  - mirimir 9y ago
    Broken Angels is also my favorite. Kovacs is an extremely complex character. He's been tweaked so much, in becoming an Envoy, that he's fundamentally an AI. He's somewhat like the vampires in Peter Watts' novels. Also, I'm very impressed by Morgan's skill in writing action. Maybe that's what you mean by "pulp". I also loved the "A Land Fit For Heroes" trilogy. I hadn't read fantasy for years. And from that, I discovered Joe Abercrombie and Matthew Woodring Stover.
- e12e 9y ago
  By the way, Bruce Sterling's "Holy Fire" offers some thoughts on extended life, in a more near-future, no jumping bodies/sleeves setting.
- mdekkers 9y ago
  Are the books much better than the show? Significantly. I have read the trilogy several times, and the Netflix series, whilst cool, doesn't come close to the depth and pacing of the books.