10 ms·

Autism's social deficits in animal model are reversed by an anti-cancer drug

133 points by chriskanan 9y ago

asdfasdfdavid 9y ago
Another HDAC inhibitor that works against autism and is easy to obtain by eating broccoli sprouts is sulforaphane: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672987/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672987/
- amelius 9y ago
  But note that according to [1], sulforaphane inhibits HDAC6, whereas the article speaks of HDAC2. [1] https://examine.com/supplements/sulforaphane/ https://examine.com/supplements/sulforaphane/
- taurath 9y ago
  So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate in regular school activities, or ones which have some social reading deficits but can still participate? Its always very difficult to tell.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - rocqua 9y ago
    Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish between the flu and tuberculosis. But if autism is indeed a spectrum, and people are spread quite evenly over the spectrum, the partitioning stops making sense. Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem', thus research and treatment would treat that partition as the same. If this is not the underlying reality this really hinders effective treatment. Consider how effective general medicine would be if we considered fever to be a spectrum, and treated based on what interval someones temperature fell in. That would be a disaster. Expanding such a system by including more variables (how sweaty is the patient, do they shiver) or by controlling for more confounding variables (compensating for the circadian rhythm) does not help either.
    - amelius 9y ago
      Sidenote: from a charity/financial perspective it is advantageous to group different conditions under one name. Look at cancer research, which receives the most funding of all diseases, but which can really be divided into many (200+) different fundamental types.
      - mynameisvlad 9y ago
        Is each cancer considered unique, though? Or would the cure for, for instance, breast cancer, also deal with other forms as well? After all, we already have fairly standardized procedures for most types of cancer. So if it is possible to cure several with the same cure, then I'd disagree with saying there's over 200 different "fundamental" types of cancer.
        klipt 9y ago
        Cancers have common traits: spreading uncontrollably, metastasizing - these are what make cells cancerous. But cells from different specialized tissues tend to become cancerous in different ways, by expressing different genes. So a treatment that targets a particular gene expression may work for one type but not others. And a cancer that returns after treatment will have yet a different gene expression (usually resistant to that particular treatment). Like the Borg, cancer adapts. That's why it's called the Emperor of all maladies: http://www.pbs.org/show/story-cancer-emperor-all-maladies/ http://www.pbs.org/show/story-cancer-emperor-all-maladies/
    - EamonnMR 9y ago
      It is definitely a good idea to look at it independently because there might well be, say, some genes that cause mild case and, in combination with another gene that causes a debilitating one. Its important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
    - taurath 9y ago
      > Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem' At the moment there is little way to tell or reference whether a studied cohort happens to be on one end of the spectrum or the other, or mixed between. I'm mostly advocating on behalf of adults and parents of those on the higher functioning end of the spectrum (because I'm a part of that group), who not only have to deal with a general lack of good age-specific information, but ALSO a huge amount of false-positive data. Most support groups for example are for caretakers of those on the lower end of the spectrum. As a result, those who could use data on their side of the spectrum to help themselves, or advocate for their own care almost always have to deal with wrong or misleading information. Imagine you had an incurable illness that was moderately debilitating to you, but in harsher cases would paralyze the victims. If you or your doctor wanted to look up how to treat your symptoms, you would only get tips on how to operate paraplegic bathrooms and support groups for caretakers. You try going to a support group with victims of the illness, but find them to be in a vastly more difficult position than you. Yet you still suffer. Its a feeling of loneliness that is really hard to express.
  - bsder 9y ago
    > So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. Well, being able to take a child who is severely autistic with no chance of independent life and moving them to a self-sufficient, if slightly odd, adult is probably more useful to society than helping adults or children who already can function acceptably, more or less. In addition, I don't always like the whole "autism spectrum" because it's a symptom-based classification that, much like cancer, we're almost certainly going to learn is actually multiple independent diseases.
    - loriverkutya 9y ago
      Autism is not a disease.
- maneesh 9y ago
  Wow this is really interesting. Any sources on possible mechanisms of action?
pmoriarty 9y ago
An obvious question is whether this could also be used as a nootropic by non-autistic individuals, and what effect (if any) it would have.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- glibgil 9y ago
  > what effect (if any) it would have super charisma
  - alanh 9y ago
    Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).
    - jacob019 9y ago
      Super charisma or other abilities in all members of a group could have negative reproductive consequences and reduce the genetic fitness of that configuration, even if it's available.
      - rocqua 9y ago
        Then you might expect a balance where everyone has a low chance of expressing such a fenotype. I believe there are ideas that color-blindness has a benefit like this. The same with sickle-cell anemia.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
      Could it be argued that quite a few of those single tweaks have already occurred?
    - truculation 9y ago
exelius 9y ago
As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.
- danielmg 9y ago
  As a father of someone who is about on the middle of the spectrum, I kind of agree. I couldn't separate his personality from his ASD - however if something could alleviate things like the stress he gets from sensory overload then that would be great.
- lev99 9y ago
  Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.
  - jacob019 9y ago
    That should be between the parents and doctors.
    - cbhl 9y ago
      One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.
      - jacob019 9y ago
        Parents don't prescribe drugs, doctors do. No system is perfect but I trust doctors and parents to do a better job than politicians and social workers when it comes to deciding what's best for each unique child.
hosh 9y ago
Whoa. Though I often question if society should treat social deficits of autism even if such a treatment is effective without side-effects. Another solution would be for society to be generally more neuro-inclusive. I can't help but wonder if there are synergistic benefits from being able to have different ways of experiencing the world. (I don't have ASD; my step-daughter is on the spectrum).
- EamonnMR 9y ago
  Society is very difficult to change, and activist groups aren't pushing in that direction as a whole (Autism Self Advocacy Network is far smaller than Autism Speaks.) Drugs are easy to make acceptable as long as the medical establishment is ok with it.
  - scardine 9y ago
    Hell, not that long ago lobotomies were accepted by the medical community. This is the problem with conditions that place a heavy burden on the parents, there is an incentive to act against the best interests of the children.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mickronome 9y ago
  Treatments should only be administered if the patient suffers themselves, if the patient actually suffers can however be hard to know at times. This can be a tricky balancing act, but one that I think we can figure out. I would however like to see medications that treats, or are otherwise reversible. Especially for children we should not induce irreversible behavioural changes except possibly if absolutely required, or as a side effect of treating a dire life threatening condition.
Jugglerofworlds 9y ago
HDAC inhibitors have been discussed before on /r/nootropics and Longecity. I was part of a group buy for Vorinostat, which is a medication with a similar mechanism of action. I only took it once and had a positive experience where I felt very "child-like", in the way that the world seemed vivid and exciting. I haven't taken it since due to concerns about interactions with some of my other medications. The primary goal of many of the people in the group buy were fear extinction and memory enhancement. I haven't seen much discussion on it since the initial excitement. Here are the relevant threads: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/90632-hdac-inhibition-main-discussion-memory-enhancement-fear-extinction-addictive-behavior-cessation-and-more/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/90632-hdac-inhibition-m... https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_an_article_on_hdac_inhibitors_geared/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_...
- starpilot 9y ago
  Vorinostat was amazing to me as well in a similar way. I seemed to quickly develop a tolerance for it though, and I'm scared of increasing the amount beyond that. I heard that you couldn't build a tolerance for but that didn't seem to be true in my case.
callesgg 9y ago
I would like to see a chart of the autism spectrum. Cause from where I am standing we are all on the spectrum but where are people and when is even worth talking about the spectrum.
nub3 9y ago
https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-blocking-enzyme-linked-alzheimer-reverse.html https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-blocking-enzyme-lin... The above mentioned study links raising HDAC2 to reverse effects of Alzheimer's disease. I doubt that the autism study with mice really 'cured' autism. I think the cancer drug reduced cognitive abilities, so mice seemed to react 'normal'.
damm 9y ago
Mostly parents will be into this. No one would do this to themselves as they will have similar feelings as most (they don't want to give up who they are). Wether being on the spectrum has been good or bad for you; it is you. However parents are really great here; they really don't give a crap about their kids feelings they just want the _best_ for him. > What I mean is they don't want to be embarrassed by their child. I know this for a fact ... I used to think my mother was trying to get me all the help in the world but no she wanted a normal child at all costs.
- mickronome 9y ago
  I have ADD with autistic traits, and let me tell you from the bottom of my heart that you are wrong that nobody would like to change themselves. While I love some parts of my personality, I would have happily given some of that up if it meant I could function socially and not get burnt out by trying to simply work a regular job, cook a meal most days, and keep up with the most basic chores. But yeah, I definitely don't think parents should have any say when it comes to these kinds of medication. As all medication they should only be given to people who suffer. If you didn't, and don't suffer, you should not have been medicated. I did suffer, I do suffer, and so does my daughter. I would like to have the choice for myself, and her for herself. We waited until she herself recognised that she didn't want the suffering her traits caused her with how the world currently works. Ideally, I would have changed the world for her to not need, or want to change. However, changing the world is rarely a choice we get to make.
- watwut 9y ago
  Quite frankly, needs of autistic child would drive me crazy. It is not easy to be forced to total routine, it is not easy to deal with major temper tamtrums kid objectively cant control well over the age you get these with neurotypical kids. It is major work to negotiate the rest of world for them. Being parent of autistic child is much harder then being parent of Neurotypical child. Some level of "I want my life to be easier too" is not betrayal.
devmunchies 9y ago
I learned a lot about autism, cancer, and many causes (e.g. our food system, glyphosphate (weed killer), our sterile environment) from the endocrinologist and cancer researcher Dr Zach Bush on this podcast. Very fascinating stuff. http://www.richroll.com/podcast/zach-bush-353/ http://www.richroll.com/podcast/zach-bush-353/
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
airbreather 9y ago
My child is on the spectrum, but I love him as he is and he is happy as he is. He is funny and quirky, my mother says I was similar as a child. Plus, he just won his school prize for Year 9 EMITS (STEM) so not sure why I would want to mess with what might make him like that.
ada1981 9y ago
Couple things... This drug is naturally occurring and derived from a bacteria that is found in soil. Curious about a link between kids not playing in the dirt enough and autism. Second, this drug is used to treat lymphoma. Surely their have been kids with autism who also had lymphoma who were exposed to this drug. Would be useful to look and see if there are cases of autism being cured along with lymphoma treatment (thanks to my mom, @DrJanetRose for that insight).
- loriverkutya 9y ago
  > Curious about a link between kids not playing in the dirt enough and autism. I'm sorry, but it seems, you don't really know much about autism. It is not a disease which you develop over the years, because you have been not played enough in the dirt. You born with it. Also, there is no known 'cure' for autism.
  - ada1981 9y ago
    I certainly don't know a lot about Autism, you are right about that. Since this drug is found in the dirt, I became curious if there might be a link between microbial exposure and autism. I started to look and came across an article in the American Journal of Public Health that said the one of the biggest factors for risk of autism was urban vs Rural and that researchers speculated it may have to do with neonatal microbial exposure. AUTISM AND URBANIZATION https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2882422/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2882422/ I spoke with an SF biohacker doctor friend who said that autism "for certain” was connected to the microbiome. I don't claim to be an expert, but my curiosity is certainly leading me to some new personal discoveries about Autism.

133 points by chriskanan 9y ago

Another HDAC inhibitor that works against autism and is easy to obtain by eating broccoli sprouts is sulforaphane: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672987/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5672987/

amelius 9y ago
But note that according to [1], sulforaphane inhibits HDAC6, whereas the article speaks of HDAC2. [1] https://examine.com/supplements/sulforaphane/ https://examine.com/supplements/sulforaphane/
taurath 9y ago
So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. IMO we need clear clinical definitions of different parts of the spectrum so we can have more intelligent conversations about it - is a study cohort involving 10 year olds ones who cannot clothe themselves or participate in regular school activities, or ones which have some social reading deficits but can still participate? Its always very difficult to tell.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- rocqua 9y ago
  Does it really make sense to partition the spectrum? It feels more reasonable to replace these exact partitions with something like 'prototypes'. The partitions would make sense if each partition corresponded to a specific physical 'defect'. Such that it actually makes sense to treat everyone in that partition the same. This is why we distinguish diabetes Type 1 from diabetes type 2. This is why we distinguish between the flu and tuberculosis. But if autism is indeed a spectrum, and people are spread quite evenly over the spectrum, the partitioning stops making sense. Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem', thus research and treatment would treat that partition as the same. If this is not the underlying reality this really hinders effective treatment. Consider how effective general medicine would be if we considered fever to be a spectrum, and treated based on what interval someones temperature fell in. That would be a disaster. Expanding such a system by including more variables (how sweaty is the patient, do they shiver) or by controlling for more confounding variables (compensating for the circadian rhythm) does not help either.
  - amelius 9y ago
    Sidenote: from a charity/financial perspective it is advantageous to group different conditions under one name. Look at cancer research, which receives the most funding of all diseases, but which can really be divided into many (200+) different fundamental types.
    - mynameisvlad 9y ago
      Is each cancer considered unique, though? Or would the cure for, for instance, breast cancer, also deal with other forms as well? After all, we already have fairly standardized procedures for most types of cancer. So if it is possible to cure several with the same cure, then I'd disagree with saying there's over 200 different "fundamental" types of cancer.
      - klipt 9y ago
        Cancers have common traits: spreading uncontrollably, metastasizing - these are what make cells cancerous. But cells from different specialized tissues tend to become cancerous in different ways, by expressing different genes. So a treatment that targets a particular gene expression may work for one type but not others. And a cancer that returns after treatment will have yet a different gene expression (usually resistant to that particular treatment). Like the Borg, cancer adapts. That's why it's called the Emperor of all maladies: http://www.pbs.org/show/story-cancer-emperor-all-maladies/ http://www.pbs.org/show/story-cancer-emperor-all-maladies/
  - EamonnMR 9y ago
    It is definitely a good idea to look at it independently because there might well be, say, some genes that cause mild case and, in combination with another gene that causes a debilitating one. Its important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  - taurath 9y ago
    > Quite dangerously, it suggests that all people in that partition have 'the same problem' At the moment there is little way to tell or reference whether a studied cohort happens to be on one end of the spectrum or the other, or mixed between. I'm mostly advocating on behalf of adults and parents of those on the higher functioning end of the spectrum (because I'm a part of that group), who not only have to deal with a general lack of good age-specific information, but ALSO a huge amount of false-positive data. Most support groups for example are for caretakers of those on the lower end of the spectrum. As a result, those who could use data on their side of the spectrum to help themselves, or advocate for their own care almost always have to deal with wrong or misleading information. Imagine you had an incurable illness that was moderately debilitating to you, but in harsher cases would paralyze the victims. If you or your doctor wanted to look up how to treat your symptoms, you would only get tips on how to operate paraplegic bathrooms and support groups for caretakers. You try going to a support group with victims of the illness, but find them to be in a vastly more difficult position than you. Yet you still suffer. Its a feeling of loneliness that is really hard to express.
- bsder 9y ago
  > So little research is done on Autism from the perspective of adults living on the spectrum - almost all the funding and research seems to go towards childhood and to give parents coping mechanisms. Well, being able to take a child who is severely autistic with no chance of independent life and moving them to a self-sufficient, if slightly odd, adult is probably more useful to society than helping adults or children who already can function acceptably, more or less. In addition, I don't always like the whole "autism spectrum" because it's a symptom-based classification that, much like cancer, we're almost certainly going to learn is actually multiple independent diseases.
  - loriverkutya 9y ago
    Autism is not a disease.
maneesh 9y ago
Wow this is really interesting. Any sources on possible mechanisms of action?

pmoriarty 9y ago

An obvious question is whether this could also be used as a nootropic by non-autistic individuals, and what effect (if any) it would have.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
glibgil 9y ago
> what effect (if any) it would have super charisma
- alanh 9y ago
  Eh, maybe… but I am reminded of the observation that if a single tweak could significantly enhance mental abilities, evolution would have probably given it to us already. I think Eliezer Yudkowsky has a longish piece to this effect (please forgive me if I am mis-remembering).
  - jacob019 9y ago
    Super charisma or other abilities in all members of a group could have negative reproductive consequences and reduce the genetic fitness of that configuration, even if it's available.
    - rocqua 9y ago
      Then you might expect a balance where everyone has a low chance of expressing such a fenotype. I believe there are ideas that color-blindness has a benefit like this. The same with sickle-cell anemia.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    Could it be argued that quite a few of those single tweaks have already occurred?
  - truculation 9y ago

exelius 9y ago

As someone on the spectrum, I don’t necessarily know if this is something I would want. My ASD is a big part of my personality; if these social “difficulties” (which really just mean I click with a different type of person) were “solved” I don’t know I would be the same person. Maybe this can offer some hope for others with more profound issues, but if you’ve found a way to function in society I’m not sure this will be very attractive outside a “let me try and see what it feels like” scenario.

danielmg 9y ago
As a father of someone who is about on the middle of the spectrum, I kind of agree. I couldn't separate his personality from his ASD - however if something could alleviate things like the stress he gets from sensory overload then that would be great.
lev99 9y ago
Would you recommend children on the spectrum to be placed on drug if it would "solve" "difficulties"? I find this to be a complex moral question.
- jacob019 9y ago
  That should be between the parents and doctors.
  - cbhl 9y ago
    One of the concerns about treatments for ASD and ADHD is that parents could be incentivized to do what is convenient for them, rather than what is best for the child.
    - jacob019 9y ago
      Parents don't prescribe drugs, doctors do. No system is perfect but I trust doctors and parents to do a better job than politicians and social workers when it comes to deciding what's best for each unique child.

hosh 9y ago

Whoa. Though I often question if society should treat social deficits of autism even if such a treatment is effective without side-effects. Another solution would be for society to be generally more neuro-inclusive. I can't help but wonder if there are synergistic benefits from being able to have different ways of experiencing the world. (I don't have ASD; my step-daughter is on the spectrum).

EamonnMR 9y ago
Society is very difficult to change, and activist groups aren't pushing in that direction as a whole (Autism Self Advocacy Network is far smaller than Autism Speaks.) Drugs are easy to make acceptable as long as the medical establishment is ok with it.
- scardine 9y ago
  Hell, not that long ago lobotomies were accepted by the medical community. This is the problem with conditions that place a heavy burden on the parents, there is an incentive to act against the best interests of the children.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mickronome 9y ago
Treatments should only be administered if the patient suffers themselves, if the patient actually suffers can however be hard to know at times. This can be a tricky balancing act, but one that I think we can figure out. I would however like to see medications that treats, or are otherwise reversible. Especially for children we should not induce irreversible behavioural changes except possibly if absolutely required, or as a side effect of treating a dire life threatening condition.

Jugglerofworlds 9y ago

HDAC inhibitors have been discussed before on /r/nootropics and Longecity. I was part of a group buy for Vorinostat, which is a medication with a similar mechanism of action. I only took it once and had a positive experience where I felt very "child-like", in the way that the world seemed vivid and exciting. I haven't taken it since due to concerns about interactions with some of my other medications. The primary goal of many of the people in the group buy were fear extinction and memory enhancement. I haven't seen much discussion on it since the initial excitement. Here are the relevant threads: http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/90632-hdac-inhibition-main-discussion-memory-enhancement-fear-extinction-addictive-behavior-cessation-and-more/ http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/90632-hdac-inhibition-m... https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_an_article_on_hdac_inhibitors_geared/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/596gbi/i_wrote_...

starpilot 9y ago
Vorinostat was amazing to me as well in a similar way. I seemed to quickly develop a tolerance for it though, and I'm scared of increasing the amount beyond that. I heard that you couldn't build a tolerance for but that didn't seem to be true in my case.

callesgg 9y ago

I would like to see a chart of the autism spectrum. Cause from where I am standing we are all on the spectrum but where are people and when is even worth talking about the spectrum.

nub3 9y ago

https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-blocking-enzyme-linked-alzheimer-reverse.html https://m.medicalxpress.com/news/2017-08-blocking-enzyme-lin... The above mentioned study links raising HDAC2 to reverse effects of Alzheimer's disease. I doubt that the autism study with mice really 'cured' autism. I think the cancer drug reduced cognitive abilities, so mice seemed to react 'normal'.

damm 9y ago

Mostly parents will be into this. No one would do this to themselves as they will have similar feelings as most (they don't want to give up who they are). Wether being on the spectrum has been good or bad for you; it is you. However parents are really great here; they really don't give a crap about their kids feelings they just want the _best_ for him. > What I mean is they don't want to be embarrassed by their child. I know this for a fact ... I used to think my mother was trying to get me all the help in the world but no she wanted a normal child at all costs.

mickronome 9y ago
I have ADD with autistic traits, and let me tell you from the bottom of my heart that you are wrong that nobody would like to change themselves. While I love some parts of my personality, I would have happily given some of that up if it meant I could function socially and not get burnt out by trying to simply work a regular job, cook a meal most days, and keep up with the most basic chores. But yeah, I definitely don't think parents should have any say when it comes to these kinds of medication. As all medication they should only be given to people who suffer. If you didn't, and don't suffer, you should not have been medicated. I did suffer, I do suffer, and so does my daughter. I would like to have the choice for myself, and her for herself. We waited until she herself recognised that she didn't want the suffering her traits caused her with how the world currently works. Ideally, I would have changed the world for her to not need, or want to change. However, changing the world is rarely a choice we get to make.
watwut 9y ago
Quite frankly, needs of autistic child would drive me crazy. It is not easy to be forced to total routine, it is not easy to deal with major temper tamtrums kid objectively cant control well over the age you get these with neurotypical kids. It is major work to negotiate the rest of world for them. Being parent of autistic child is much harder then being parent of Neurotypical child. Some level of "I want my life to be easier too" is not betrayal.

devmunchies 9y ago

I learned a lot about autism, cancer, and many causes (e.g. our food system, glyphosphate (weed killer), our sterile environment) from the endocrinologist and cancer researcher Dr Zach Bush on this podcast. Very fascinating stuff. http://www.richroll.com/podcast/zach-bush-353/ http://www.richroll.com/podcast/zach-bush-353/

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

airbreather 9y ago

My child is on the spectrum, but I love him as he is and he is happy as he is. He is funny and quirky, my mother says I was similar as a child. Plus, he just won his school prize for Year 9 EMITS (STEM) so not sure why I would want to mess with what might make him like that.

ada1981 9y ago

Couple things... This drug is naturally occurring and derived from a bacteria that is found in soil. Curious about a link between kids not playing in the dirt enough and autism. Second, this drug is used to treat lymphoma. Surely their have been kids with autism who also had lymphoma who were exposed to this drug. Would be useful to look and see if there are cases of autism being cured along with lymphoma treatment (thanks to my mom, @DrJanetRose for that insight).

loriverkutya 9y ago
> Curious about a link between kids not playing in the dirt enough and autism. I'm sorry, but it seems, you don't really know much about autism. It is not a disease which you develop over the years, because you have been not played enough in the dirt. You born with it. Also, there is no known 'cure' for autism.
- ada1981 9y ago
  I certainly don't know a lot about Autism, you are right about that. Since this drug is found in the dirt, I became curious if there might be a link between microbial exposure and autism. I started to look and came across an article in the American Journal of Public Health that said the one of the biggest factors for risk of autism was urban vs Rural and that researchers speculated it may have to do with neonatal microbial exposure. AUTISM AND URBANIZATION https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2882422/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2882422/ I spoke with an SF biohacker doctor friend who said that autism "for certain” was connected to the microbiome. I don't claim to be an expert, but my curiosity is certainly leading me to some new personal discoveries about Autism.