6 ms·

How can it be allowed to ship Apple's own music service with every iPhone? Why isn't that deemed anti competitive?

frenchie4111 9y ago
They don't require you to use Apple Music. If shipping with a default was anti-competitive wouldn't default installs of Safari, Chrome or Google Music also be anti-competitive?
- SeanAnderson 9y ago
  Are you familiar with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp._(2001) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor...? > The issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle its flagship Internet Explorer (IE) web browser software with its Microsoft Windows operating system
  - rwc 9y ago
    Yes, the issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle it because of their anti-competitive activity in doing so. If shipping default pre-installed software was deemed anti-competitive, the problems would be much bigger than just Apple Music existing on an iPhone out of a box.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Actually that's false. The primary issue in the US vs Microsoft, was Microsoft's monopoly abuse directed at its OEM partners and the terms it was attempting to force upon them, not the IE bundling vs Netscape part of it. IE bundling was a smaller sideshow.
  - closetohome 9y ago
    That's like saying a sexual harassment case is about whether or not it's legal to ask someone out. Context is important.
- burner5692 9y ago
  Yes, it's just that those laws are no longer enforced.
- tomc1985 9y ago
  But man they try awefully hard to compel you I am sick of seeing my 15-plus-year music collection relegated to the "Downloaded Music" ghetto of my iphone. Apple's shitty cloud service is not nearly as high quality or cared for as lovingly as mine and I am sicking of seeing it front and center Play Music does the same thing with the online storage locker... but at least they're hosting my music for free (and streaming me transcodes :/) and letting me download it again
  - ndaiger 9y ago
    I don't use Apple Music either. I just dislike the idea of not owning something so near and dear to me. It works OK for me after turning off the "Show Apple Music" option in Settings->Music. The only really annoying bit left after that is touching a band name link doesn't take me to that band in my library, it goes to some Apple Music type page with everything available, not just what I own.
  - eridius 9y ago
    Wouldn't your music also show up in the rest of your library? The "Downloaded Music" section is just music that's already on your phone and therefore you can listen to without an internet connection. But everything in there should also be present in the other sections of your library.
    - tomc1985 9y ago
      It gets mixed in with that free U2 album and all the various Starbucks codes I redeemed 10 years ago :/
      - eridius 9y ago
        You can hide music from your library. Apple put out a support page on how to do exactly that something like a week after the U2 debacle. Here's how to delete from iCloud Music Library: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201323 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201323 Here's how to delete iTunes Store content: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT204343 https://support.apple.com/kb/HT204343 For the latter, it says that deleting something you haven't downloaded will hide it from your purchase history as well.
- xattt 9y ago
  Using anything but Apple Music leads to a less favourable listening experience.
  - skellera 9y ago
    What are you talking about? Spotify works fine.
    - slig 9y ago
      Can you control it with Siri yet?
    - Eric_WVGG 9y ago
      There's no way to pipe it over Airport without sending ALL of your audio to it, two second delay on all other apps, makes apps that have any sound almost unusable.
spatulon 9y ago
Because they don't have a monopoly on mobile phones. The issue with Microsoft shipping IE is that they did have a monopoly on desktop operating systems.
- system16 9y ago
  And arguably that they didn't hire enough lobbyists. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsley-column-microsoft-20110405 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsle...
jwagenet 9y ago
Other music services can be installed on iOS and iOS doesn't overwhelmingly own the mobile market, or even have majority share.
untog 9y ago
Because Apple don't have a monopoly on cellphones. I don't think it's even 50% in the US.
draw_down 9y ago
Ha, let me guess, you have no problem with Google doing the same thing.
stphn2013 9y ago
They don’t do that. They ship the same music app that’s been in iOS since the beginning with an option to subscribe to Apple Music as an additional service. Apple Music is also available on Android and other streaming services are available on iOS eg Spotify, amazon music.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
urda 9y ago
- Nobody is forcing you to use Apple's music service. - Not using Apple's music service doesn't prevent you from loading your own music on your phone. - Apple happily allows other products (like Spotify, Pandora, SiriusXM, etc) to be installed and used on the device. - Music apps and services still happily play out over your device over your output of choosing. - ... and the list goes on. Very, very far from anti-competitive.
- izacus 9y ago
  > - Apple happily allows other products (like Spotify, Pandora, SiriusXM, etc) to be installed and used on the device. Can they implement same capabilities? Same AirPlay support, streaming to HomePod, Siri integration?

They don't require you to use Apple Music. If shipping with a default was anti-competitive wouldn't default installs of Safari, Chrome or Google Music also be anti-competitive?

SeanAnderson 9y ago
Are you familiar with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp._(2001) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor...? > The issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle its flagship Internet Explorer (IE) web browser software with its Microsoft Windows operating system
- rwc 9y ago
  Yes, the issue central to the case was whether Microsoft was allowed to bundle it because of their anti-competitive activity in doing so. If shipping default pre-installed software was deemed anti-competitive, the problems would be much bigger than just Apple Music existing on an iPhone out of a box.
- adventured 9y ago
  Actually that's false. The primary issue in the US vs Microsoft, was Microsoft's monopoly abuse directed at its OEM partners and the terms it was attempting to force upon them, not the IE bundling vs Netscape part of it. IE bundling was a smaller sideshow.
- closetohome 9y ago
  That's like saying a sexual harassment case is about whether or not it's legal to ask someone out. Context is important.
burner5692 9y ago
Yes, it's just that those laws are no longer enforced.
tomc1985 9y ago
But man they try awefully hard to compel you I am sick of seeing my 15-plus-year music collection relegated to the "Downloaded Music" ghetto of my iphone. Apple's shitty cloud service is not nearly as high quality or cared for as lovingly as mine and I am sicking of seeing it front and center Play Music does the same thing with the online storage locker... but at least they're hosting my music for free (and streaming me transcodes :/) and letting me download it again
- ndaiger 9y ago
  I don't use Apple Music either. I just dislike the idea of not owning something so near and dear to me. It works OK for me after turning off the "Show Apple Music" option in Settings->Music. The only really annoying bit left after that is touching a band name link doesn't take me to that band in my library, it goes to some Apple Music type page with everything available, not just what I own.
- eridius 9y ago
  Wouldn't your music also show up in the rest of your library? The "Downloaded Music" section is just music that's already on your phone and therefore you can listen to without an internet connection. But everything in there should also be present in the other sections of your library.
  - tomc1985 9y ago
    It gets mixed in with that free U2 album and all the various Starbucks codes I redeemed 10 years ago :/
    - eridius 9y ago
      You can hide music from your library. Apple put out a support page on how to do exactly that something like a week after the U2 debacle. Here's how to delete from iCloud Music Library: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201323 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201323 Here's how to delete iTunes Store content: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT204343 https://support.apple.com/kb/HT204343 For the latter, it says that deleting something you haven't downloaded will hide it from your purchase history as well.
xattt 9y ago
Using anything but Apple Music leads to a less favourable listening experience.
- skellera 9y ago
  What are you talking about? Spotify works fine.
  - slig 9y ago
    Can you control it with Siri yet?
  - Eric_WVGG 9y ago
    There's no way to pipe it over Airport without sending ALL of your audio to it, two second delay on all other apps, makes apps that have any sound almost unusable.

spatulon 9y ago

Because they don't have a monopoly on mobile phones. The issue with Microsoft shipping IE is that they did have a monopoly on desktop operating systems.

system16 9y ago
And arguably that they didn't hire enough lobbyists. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsley-column-microsoft-20110405 http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/05/opinion/la-oe-kinsle...

jwagenet 9y ago

Other music services can be installed on iOS and iOS doesn't overwhelmingly own the mobile market, or even have majority share.

untog 9y ago

Because Apple don't have a monopoly on cellphones. I don't think it's even 50% in the US.

draw_down 9y ago

Ha, let me guess, you have no problem with Google doing the same thing.

stphn2013 9y ago

They don’t do that. They ship the same music app that’s been in iOS since the beginning with an option to subscribe to Apple Music as an additional service. Apple Music is also available on Android and other streaming services are available on iOS eg Spotify, amazon music.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

urda 9y ago

- Nobody is forcing you to use Apple's music service. - Not using Apple's music service doesn't prevent you from loading your own music on your phone. - Apple happily allows other products (like Spotify, Pandora, SiriusXM, etc) to be installed and used on the device. - Music apps and services still happily play out over your device over your output of choosing. - ... and the list goes on. Very, very far from anti-competitive.

izacus 9y ago
> - Apple happily allows other products (like Spotify, Pandora, SiriusXM, etc) to be installed and used on the device. Can they implement same capabilities? Same AirPlay support, streaming to HomePod, Siri integration?