6 ms·

"Toxic statements = statements from a different political orientation" Wrong. Saying so is dangerously minimizing the problem.

zaroth 9y ago
Have you been following what’s going on in the UK with their anti-“hate” speech laws? Tweet something that someone decides is offensive to them, get a visit from the police? I’d say it’s a very rational concern that these regulations would be weaponized against “wrongthink”.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  I'm not saying the UK's way is the way to go. But trying to handwave away the problem of toxicity with, "It's just people who can't handle' differing opinions" not right either.
- pjc50 9y ago
  The number of actual prosecutions or even visits from the police is tiny, and when you look at the actual cases they tend to be racist death or rape threats.
  - zaroth 9y ago
    "Arrests for offensive Facebook and Twitter posts soar in London" [1] "Arrests for 'offensive' Twitter and Facebook messages up by a third" [2] "British Police Arrest At Least 3,395 People for ‘Offensive’ Online Comments in One Year" [3] "Police arresting nine people a day in fight against web trolls" [4] "More than 3,300 people were detained and questioned last year over so-called trolling on social media and other online forums, a rise of nearly 50 per cent in two years, according to figures obtained by The Times. About half of the investigations were dropped before prosecutions were brought, however, leading to criticism from civil liberties campaigners that the authorities are over-policing the internet and threatening free speech...." [1] - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-f... [2] - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests_up_37pc_london_section_127_communications_act/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests... [3] - http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/14/british-police-arrest-at-least-3395-people-for-offensive-online-comments-one-year/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/14/british-police-ar... [4] - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-peo...
    - s73v3r_ 9y ago
      None of those articles mention the content of the posts.
      - zaroth 9y ago
        There are a few examples in there. Here’s a few more [1]. Mostly it’s ill advised mouthing off, or blowing off steam as was the case of the guy delayed hours at an airport. These are not “true threats” or incitement, which are charged differently. [1] - https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/killallwhitemen-twitter-trolling-law-collides-priority/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/killallwhitemen-twitter-trolli...
UrukParthian 9y ago
Dangerously minimizing? What's dangerous is a culture addicted to simulating political action by managing online comments. Instead if putting resources to making your local garden great, to mangle Nietzsche of Ecco Homo, people get worked up by actions they have no control over instead of working locally to change conditions where they could have an impact. And you lack imagination and historical hindsight if you think the concept of "toxicity" can only be wielded by whatever you consider to be the forces of light. So to speak.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  "Dangerously minimizing?" Yes. Pretending that the problem of toxicity is just people who can't handle differing opinions is to be willfully ignorant of the problem. As such, a reasonable conversation can not be had. "And you lack imagination and historical hindsight if you think the concept of "toxicity" can only be wielded by whatever you consider to be the forces of light. So to speak." Nowhere did I say that in the least.
  - UrukParthian 9y ago
    You're spoiled beyond belief if you view "toxic" comments online as a serious problem. If it is truly "a problem", then the larger problem is tying your emotions to what anonymous people say. You live vicariously through an image of how offended someone else might be. Instead of tending to the garden you can actually protect and uphold. Do you think the poor bastards in Skid Row feel better because some (literal) white typed in defense against toxicity? Do you think someone...Let's say Tim Wise! Do you think Mr.Wise has actually interacted with black communities while he lives in a 98% white neighborhood? Do you think Mr.Wise would help some homeless junkie who's trying to figure out how to work his phone so he can message an estranged daughter on Facebook? That's part of what I did in Skid Row. There are issues of knowledge, skills, and plain diet that would offer much better benefits than speaking out against some notion of "toxicity", created by people who have no skin in bleating their stupid moralism.
    - iamcasen 9y ago

zaroth 9y ago

Have you been following what’s going on in the UK with their anti-“hate” speech laws? Tweet something that someone decides is offensive to them, get a visit from the police? I’d say it’s a very rational concern that these regulations would be weaponized against “wrongthink”.

s73v3r_ 9y ago
I'm not saying the UK's way is the way to go. But trying to handwave away the problem of toxicity with, "It's just people who can't handle' differing opinions" not right either.
pjc50 9y ago
The number of actual prosecutions or even visits from the police is tiny, and when you look at the actual cases they tend to be racist death or rape threats.
- zaroth 9y ago
  "Arrests for offensive Facebook and Twitter posts soar in London" [1] "Arrests for 'offensive' Twitter and Facebook messages up by a third" [2] "British Police Arrest At Least 3,395 People for ‘Offensive’ Online Comments in One Year" [3] "Police arresting nine people a day in fight against web trolls" [4] "More than 3,300 people were detained and questioned last year over so-called trolling on social media and other online forums, a rise of nearly 50 per cent in two years, according to figures obtained by The Times. About half of the investigations were dropped before prosecutions were brought, however, leading to criticism from civil liberties campaigners that the authorities are over-policing the internet and threatening free speech...." [1] - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-f... [2] - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests_up_37pc_london_section_127_communications_act/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests... [3] - http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/14/british-police-arrest-at-least-3395-people-for-offensive-online-comments-one-year/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/14/british-police-ar... [4] - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-peo...
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    None of those articles mention the content of the posts.
    - zaroth 9y ago
      There are a few examples in there. Here’s a few more [1]. Mostly it’s ill advised mouthing off, or blowing off steam as was the case of the guy delayed hours at an airport. These are not “true threats” or incitement, which are charged differently. [1] - https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/killallwhitemen-twitter-trolling-law-collides-priority/ https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/killallwhitemen-twitter-trolli...

UrukParthian 9y ago

Dangerously minimizing? What's dangerous is a culture addicted to simulating political action by managing online comments. Instead if putting resources to making your local garden great, to mangle Nietzsche of Ecco Homo, people get worked up by actions they have no control over instead of working locally to change conditions where they could have an impact. And you lack imagination and historical hindsight if you think the concept of "toxicity" can only be wielded by whatever you consider to be the forces of light. So to speak.

s73v3r_ 9y ago
"Dangerously minimizing?" Yes. Pretending that the problem of toxicity is just people who can't handle differing opinions is to be willfully ignorant of the problem. As such, a reasonable conversation can not be had. "And you lack imagination and historical hindsight if you think the concept of "toxicity" can only be wielded by whatever you consider to be the forces of light. So to speak." Nowhere did I say that in the least.
- UrukParthian 9y ago
  You're spoiled beyond belief if you view "toxic" comments online as a serious problem. If it is truly "a problem", then the larger problem is tying your emotions to what anonymous people say. You live vicariously through an image of how offended someone else might be. Instead of tending to the garden you can actually protect and uphold. Do you think the poor bastards in Skid Row feel better because some (literal) white typed in defense against toxicity? Do you think someone...Let's say Tim Wise! Do you think Mr.Wise has actually interacted with black communities while he lives in a 98% white neighborhood? Do you think Mr.Wise would help some homeless junkie who's trying to figure out how to work his phone so he can message an estranged daughter on Facebook? That's part of what I did in Skid Row. There are issues of knowledge, skills, and plain diet that would offer much better benefits than speaking out against some notion of "toxicity", created by people who have no skin in bleating their stupid moralism.
  - iamcasen 9y ago