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You could, basically, say the same about guns. Guns kill 10s of 1000s of people in the US each year. Any manufacturer who makes, for example, semi-automatics an

You could, basically, say the same about guns. Guns kill 10s of 1000s of people in the US each year. Any manufacturer who makes, for example, semi-automatics and other military style weapons knows that it's for killing people, not deer. But they still make them. Why? Ostensibly, due to the 2nd Amendment. So why doesn't the same apply to these phones vis-a-vis the 1st Amendement? Sure, you could use the phone for drug transactions; but that's not what it was designed to do; just like you could use a car to carry drugs, but that's not what it was designed for.

jjeaff 9y ago
Plenty of hunting rifles are semi automatic. By "military style" do you mean "black guns"? Because you can hunt with black rifles as well. And lots of people simply like guns and have fun taking them out to the shooting range. And they have absolutely zero intention or desire to shoot another human. And by "lots" I mean the huge majority, most likely.
- rhizome 9y ago
  Because you can hunt with black rifles as well. Well you used to be able to buy cocaine at the corner store, too, but cooler heads eventually prevailed. And lots of people simply like guns and have fun taking them out to the shooting range. Ibid.
- pembrook 9y ago
  I'm an avid hunter and have never known, seen, heard of, or even imagined using an AR15 (for example) for hunting. Although I’m sure some people will claim they do. The modern AR15 a semi-automatic "retail" version of a gun designed to be optimally efficient at killing multiple humans in combat scenarios. And absolutely you're 100% correct. The vast majority of owners are law-abiding and just enthusiasts who like customizing and shooting their semi-neutered human killing tool at the range. Hey, I agree, the AR-15 is cool looking and fun to shoot in "safe" environments. However, humans are unpredictable, unreliable bags of irrational emotions. The future is going to be marked by a steady removal of humans from things they are unreliable and unsafe at doing (ie. driving, etc). If you think 100 years from now Bob is going to be driving himself to the range to go shoot whatever absurdly powerful handheld-railgun-type-instrument-of-death exists in the future I'd say you're comedically on the wrong side of history.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - dmix 9y ago
    > to go shoot whatever absurdly powerful handheld-railgun-type-instrument-of-death exists in the future I'd say you're comedically on the wrong side of history. Let me get this straight, some hypothetical extremely dangerous future weapon might exist and so not allowing ownership of that is like banning the most popular rifle in the United States because it's marginally more 'dangerous' than your hunting rifle?
    - simonh 9y ago
      Nothing after the ‘and so’, or anything remotely like it or construable from it, is present in the post you’re replying to.
      - dmix 9y ago
        He mentions rail guns (aka "hypothetical extremely dangerous future weapon") as well as paraphrased a very popular argument against owning AR-15s (aka the most popular rifle in the US): it is not popularly used for hunting in it's particular manifestation (not the particular attributes of the gun... but merely is aesthetics). ... and therefore much like the future weapon which lacks a very obvious practical use case, beyond sport shooting/fun, then expecting it not to get banned . If the OP didn't intend to communicate such a position then he chose a very poor way of stating it.
  - mieseratte 9y ago
    > I'm an avid hunter and have never known, seen, heard of, or even imagined using an AR15 (for example) for hunting. Although I’m sure some people will claim they do. The modern AR15 a semi-automatic "retail" version of a gun designed to be optimally efficient at killing multiple humans in combat scenarios. Does your state have a hog problem?
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    You probably hunt big game then. AR-15s are very popular and fun for "varmint" hunting. It is open season on wild hogs in several southern states right now due to their invasion and subsequent overpopulation. And you really need a semi-auto if you are going to take down several of them quickly when they run in packs. >humans are unpredictable, unreliable bags of irrational emotions Ya, but not really. Death by mass shooting is so rare, like winning a big jackpot in the lottery rare. There are so many opportunities for humans to make mischief and commit violent acts day in and day out, yet they don't. The only reason mass shootings get so much attention is because it is so rare. Guns in America aren't going to go away anytime soon. 100 years in the future, maybe, but with the advent of cheap 3d printers that can create firearms, and the fact that there are simply so many firearms in the US already that will essentially last forever with minimum upkeep, the future may be just as full of guns as ever. Not to mention there will likely always be a community of enthusiasts. Just like 100 years ago, some people predicted no one would ever need to use horses in the future, but today, millions of people have horses. As noted in another HN article, today, there are more available models of fountain pen and ink than ever before, even though fountain pens were obsoleted many years ago. So yes, I think it is very likely that some people will drive themselves to a shooting range with their vintage non-self driving car and shoot off some rounds.
simonh 9y ago
I don’t think that’s a valid argument. The vast majority of guns, ‘tactical’ or not, sold in the US are never used to kill anybody and are used for hobby purposes only. It’s one thing to knowingly sell tools to criminals for criminal purposes, and quite another to sell tools, some of which you know may fall into the hands of criminals. There are plenty of compelling, imperative moral arguments I could make for meaningful gun control, but this isn’t really one of them and if anything it waters down the case.

jjeaff 9y ago

Plenty of hunting rifles are semi automatic. By "military style" do you mean "black guns"? Because you can hunt with black rifles as well. And lots of people simply like guns and have fun taking them out to the shooting range. And they have absolutely zero intention or desire to shoot another human. And by "lots" I mean the huge majority, most likely.

rhizome 9y ago
Because you can hunt with black rifles as well. Well you used to be able to buy cocaine at the corner store, too, but cooler heads eventually prevailed. And lots of people simply like guns and have fun taking them out to the shooting range. Ibid.
pembrook 9y ago
I'm an avid hunter and have never known, seen, heard of, or even imagined using an AR15 (for example) for hunting. Although I’m sure some people will claim they do. The modern AR15 a semi-automatic "retail" version of a gun designed to be optimally efficient at killing multiple humans in combat scenarios. And absolutely you're 100% correct. The vast majority of owners are law-abiding and just enthusiasts who like customizing and shooting their semi-neutered human killing tool at the range. Hey, I agree, the AR-15 is cool looking and fun to shoot in "safe" environments. However, humans are unpredictable, unreliable bags of irrational emotions. The future is going to be marked by a steady removal of humans from things they are unreliable and unsafe at doing (ie. driving, etc). If you think 100 years from now Bob is going to be driving himself to the range to go shoot whatever absurdly powerful handheld-railgun-type-instrument-of-death exists in the future I'd say you're comedically on the wrong side of history.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dmix 9y ago
  > to go shoot whatever absurdly powerful handheld-railgun-type-instrument-of-death exists in the future I'd say you're comedically on the wrong side of history. Let me get this straight, some hypothetical extremely dangerous future weapon might exist and so not allowing ownership of that is like banning the most popular rifle in the United States because it's marginally more 'dangerous' than your hunting rifle?
  - simonh 9y ago
    Nothing after the ‘and so’, or anything remotely like it or construable from it, is present in the post you’re replying to.
    - dmix 9y ago
      He mentions rail guns (aka "hypothetical extremely dangerous future weapon") as well as paraphrased a very popular argument against owning AR-15s (aka the most popular rifle in the US): it is not popularly used for hunting in it's particular manifestation (not the particular attributes of the gun... but merely is aesthetics). ... and therefore much like the future weapon which lacks a very obvious practical use case, beyond sport shooting/fun, then expecting it not to get banned . If the OP didn't intend to communicate such a position then he chose a very poor way of stating it.
- mieseratte 9y ago
  > I'm an avid hunter and have never known, seen, heard of, or even imagined using an AR15 (for example) for hunting. Although I’m sure some people will claim they do. The modern AR15 a semi-automatic "retail" version of a gun designed to be optimally efficient at killing multiple humans in combat scenarios. Does your state have a hog problem?
- jjeaff 9y ago
  You probably hunt big game then. AR-15s are very popular and fun for "varmint" hunting. It is open season on wild hogs in several southern states right now due to their invasion and subsequent overpopulation. And you really need a semi-auto if you are going to take down several of them quickly when they run in packs. >humans are unpredictable, unreliable bags of irrational emotions Ya, but not really. Death by mass shooting is so rare, like winning a big jackpot in the lottery rare. There are so many opportunities for humans to make mischief and commit violent acts day in and day out, yet they don't. The only reason mass shootings get so much attention is because it is so rare. Guns in America aren't going to go away anytime soon. 100 years in the future, maybe, but with the advent of cheap 3d printers that can create firearms, and the fact that there are simply so many firearms in the US already that will essentially last forever with minimum upkeep, the future may be just as full of guns as ever. Not to mention there will likely always be a community of enthusiasts. Just like 100 years ago, some people predicted no one would ever need to use horses in the future, but today, millions of people have horses. As noted in another HN article, today, there are more available models of fountain pen and ink than ever before, even though fountain pens were obsoleted many years ago. So yes, I think it is very likely that some people will drive themselves to a shooting range with their vintage non-self driving car and shoot off some rounds.

simonh 9y ago

I don’t think that’s a valid argument. The vast majority of guns, ‘tactical’ or not, sold in the US are never used to kill anybody and are used for hobby purposes only. It’s one thing to knowingly sell tools to criminals for criminal purposes, and quite another to sell tools, some of which you know may fall into the hands of criminals. There are plenty of compelling, imperative moral arguments I could make for meaningful gun control, but this isn’t really one of them and if anything it waters down the case.