12 ms·

Fitter, happier, and other fantasies of modern life

209 points by pranshum 9y ago

dskysky 9y ago
Lest we forget coding-er. Programming, for this (my) generation is perceived as a noble, profitable, ideal pursuit for Better People. Hi tech is its own economic class, lifestyle, #goal. While this is obviously backed and semijustified by the economic factors alone - I’ve always felt there’s a false mythology and idealization around “them” (and, later in my career, “us”.)
123212321 9y ago
Probably some of this stuff does work. The real problem is that changing your life is really difficult. Mainly because there is inertia in your environment. People expect you to act and think how you have done in the past, your job expects you to show up at a specific time, think a certain way. The bar you frequent has a set of emotions associated with it. So does the coffee shop. And so it all snowballs, and you try to break free but the memories are everywhere
beams_of_light 9y ago
I'm of the belief that all those stories about CEOs who wake up at 4:30 AM, hit the gym, and have another notch in their belt by 7 AM are not products of their routine, but rather that their routines are products of themselves. One can't usurp those lifestyles without changing their unique set of circumstances up to that point, their genetics, their gut bacteria, or any of a plethora of other factors. Being someone is like being a planet, forged by chance from matter swirling around after chaotically exploding into the universe. Dialogue on the Internet is narrowing our perceptions of what it means to be an individual, and that's not really a good thing, IMO.
- matwood 9y ago
  As someone who gets up early and works out, I have noticed that the discipline required to make it to the gym early carries through the rest of my life. The flip side is when I start being lazy in one area of my life it permeates to other areas.
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Meanwhile Wittgenstein couldn't even deny himself a cup of coffee, and look what he accomplished.
    - projektir 9y ago
      That sounds amusing, do you have a link to something to read about this? (my perusal of Wikipedia was not effective)
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html for an intro of Wittgenstein; http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html for the claim that Wittgenstein couldn't deny himself a cup of coffee, and the implications toward self-discipline and effectiveness.
  - AckSyn 9y ago
    As someone who shares this kind of routine, I can say from my own experiences and perception that it's best not to let yourself get too relaxed about the things that matter, and remain focused and dedicated. Diciplining yourself takes a lot of effort and time. Without that (among other things) you will fail to achieve much.
  - enraged_camel 9y ago
    On the other hand, willpower has been shown in multiple studies to be a limited resource[1], so on days where I force myself to wake up early, I end up making caving and bad decisions later in the day, like eating a bag of doritos. [1]https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/willpower-limited-resource.pdf https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/willpower-limited-resource.pd...
    - beagle3 9y ago
      Baumeister’s ego depletion experiments failed to replicate spectacularly. On phone now, so you’ll need to google yourself.
- 50 9y ago
  On a similar note to your last argument, I recently started devaluing productivity. Have you read Medium's Self topic section? Have you watched any of Gary Vaynerchuk's videos? No thanks, man - I feel nauseous thinking about them. I look around at my classmates, friends, parents, etc, and I don't know. I'm starting to prefer inner cultivation, solitude, present-ness, and peace of mind over my limited views and the world's limited views. Plus, the latter does not necessarily mean laziness or passivity. Again, I don't know, I'm now thinking about how people tend to associate words with exhaustingly fabricated concepts and often forget what words conceal.
- scandox 9y ago
  Very often they are products of their imagination. The fact is it is much easier to project life mastery than master life. Therefore an intelligent person will often spend energy creating the image since that gives them the reward they really want: admiration, respect and so on.
wutbrodo 9y ago
It seems to me that the author is missing the core problem here. The problem isn't trying to improve oneself, but tying your self-worth to the success (or failure) of these improvement efforts, or hoping for magic habits like IF or polyphasic sleeping or a specific schedule to fix your life. I don't stress about not achieving personal goals immediately, as long as I'm making progress, or at least learning. My diet, for example, is pretty much a model of what many people would ideally like to eat. I didn't do this by going cold turkey, but rather by a decade of trying without judging myself for each failure. By contrast, I've failed pretty hard at trying to wake up earlier over the last decade: instead of forcing myself to do so, I've made sure that my time commitments allow for it. It turns out this was a pretty great way to handle it, as I just found out I've had a sleep disorder for pretty much my entire life. Now that I've addressed it, waking up earlier has become a lot more feasible. If I had pushed myself and judged myself for failing the way the author does, I feel like I would've failed at both those endeavors.
- achompas 9y ago
  This part about sleeping sounds a lot like me. What was the issue, if I may ask?
  - Erlangolem 9y ago
    I’m guessing sleep apnea, as the most common culprit leading to difficulty getting up in the morning. Apnea also frequently is misdiagnosed as ADHD.
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    I have unusually sensitive sleep, which I haven't yet addressed, but there were a couple of physical things that were combining with that to make it so that I pretty much never got a restful night. I apparently have GERD, as well as bad enough allergies that my nasal passages weren't open enough. So I started using H2 blockers and nasal strips and the immediate improvement in my quality of life is insane. It manifested in a pretty unintuitive way: the fact that I had to exert a certain amount of pressure to continue breathing through my nose was apparently enough that my body would keep me from ever resting very well. At its worst, I would spend 11 hours in bed and still feel way less rested than _5 hours_ makes me feel now.
ris 9y ago
Interesting that Thom is supposed to be quite embarrassed by Fitter Happier these days and reportedly it's one of the only statements he wishes he could take back.
- sideshowb 9y ago
  That's interesting, got a source? Also though I wouldn't wish regret on anyone, probably helpful to aspiring artists to know that everyone makes mistakes.
  - ris 9y ago
    Not really I'm afraid - can't remember what interview I read it in, but you can probably find something with a bit of creative googling.
    - mattmanser 9y ago
      It's in here, seems to be from interviews in Humo and Q magazine (never heard of the former, remember the latter from the 90s): http://diffuser.fm/radiohead-fitter-happier/ http://diffuser.fm/radiohead-fitter-happier/ "I'm not standing behind the lyrics any more. Sometimes your ideas get entangled with other ideas and then you have to apologise for the original idea because it doesn't make sense any more. That's what happened with 'Fitter Happier.' Now, I listen to the piano part." The ending line is pretty harsh on people who just want to improve their lives ("A pig in a cage on antibiotics"), I've always had mixed feelings about the song when I've heard it when trying to fix a (perceived?) problem in my life. It's a a bit of a childish view on adults, every lyric writer will look back on his teenage/early 20s thoughts and see that growing older has suddenly made you understand your elders and cringe at how ridiculous your views actually were when you're young, immortal and carefree. When it turns out youth doesn't last, we all die and mummy and daddy stop paying at some point.
kerpal 9y ago
What I always wonder is why strive for productivity at all? I see all these self-help blog posts about boosting productivity, getting more out of your day, etc. They all seem to eschew the virtues of productivity in lieu of hedonism. Can't we have both? Or is the problem moderation? If we don't balance productivity with enjoyment and relaxation we oscillate from each extreme. I confess I've been a bit obsessed with self-help books and websites. With that said, when I compare my more productive self to my time-wasting, hedonistic side, I prefer to have a mix of both. Striving for the extreme hacks to maximize time to be more productive seem pointless if you aren't having fun or enjoying yourself. Strive for achievement sure, but also enjoy life.
- tammer 9y ago
  The key is understanding your own long term and legacy goals. Then you can estimate whether your current productivity will get you there. If you aren’t clear on what it is you want, you’ll always be caught feeling unsure if you’re doing enough.
  - ipython 9y ago
    That is so true. Much of my anxiety stems from being unsure of my personal wants and not being able to separate other people’s wants from my own. Well said.
- Trundle 9y ago
  For some of us productivity is needed to be able to do the leisure activities we really want. If that's not the case then sure, just skip straight to the leisure.
- your-nanny 9y ago
  If increasing my productivity doesn't increase my salary, but decreases my happiness, then why indeed?
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    This is an interesting idea. (Office Space interview with the "Bobs" comes to mind) Would you say that your experience fits with the idea that many people are more productive because of recognition from their manager/boss is more valuable than money? (within reasonable parameters)
internetman55 9y ago
didn't read the article closely, but i'm sick of people getting memed into caring about things like intermittent fasting and honey vinegar drinks (???) and mindfulness meditation apps. It seems like people are unable to focus on the big picture stuff that actually matters (don't get fat, sleep enough, have enough money to not be broke, have good relationships with family and friends, managing stress effectively, etc.). So they get obsessed with these random things nobody gives a fuck about and fail at the big picture stuff.
- rlayton2 9y ago
  Yeah, I had a mental argument with myself on Nootropics. I was starting to investigate them and just thought "Hold on, you aren't even exercising regularly. Do that first.". I'm sure the gains from moving to regular exercise from not-doing-so are going to be a bigger step anyway.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  I find that these things _can_ go hand in hand. Being physically healthy won't make you nicer, but if you are healthy, it's easier to have more patience (as one example of a complimentary benefit). I am nicer and more forgiving when I don't have a sore throat or a migraine. And when I have more energy, I can play with kids instead of taking a nap.
  - taneq 9y ago
    I think it's a very analogous situation with wealth, actually. "More money won't make you a better person," but if you're broke and desperate you're more likely to do something shifty to survive. Likewise, being physically healthy and getting enough sleep won't "make you a better person" but if you're sick and chronically sleep-deprived it sure can make you behave like a prick.
    - RobertRoberts 9y ago
      >...but if you're sick and chronically sleep-deprived it sure can make you behave like a prick. Or make it _harder_ to not behave like a prick?
amriksohata 9y ago
The biggest culprit is unregulated modern business, it feeds us rubbish food through mass marketing, which leads to crappy guts and depression, stress through aggresive worklife and focus on quick success. The underlying emotions are greed and gluttony.
- dpwm 9y ago
  I think you're ignoring the many positives in this. What would happen to the change-your-life-in-24-hours book segment of the economy; the fad-diet book industry; the people who claim authorship of the books; the photographers who sell their images to a middleman to license to the publisher; the publishers that print them. And when the books don't work because there's an entire industry devoted to feeding consumers misinformation and convincing them that the low-effort obvious things they can do (moving your diet as far away as possible from what the processed food industry is selling and becoming more active) won't work unless you're deeply abnormal in some way, the situation is beneficial to the healthcare industry that benefits from prescribing antidepressants and treating obesity-related diseases. The wealth-creators of these industries are creating jobs in growing sectors of the economy. If you fix the real underlying problems, people will be out of their livelihoods.
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    Just to clarify (I am dense) this is a sarcastic post, right? (please forgive my stupidity if you are being serious, and if not, for wrecking your joke)
    - sinsterizme 9y ago
      Nothing funny about what he said
    - dpwm 9y ago
      Definitely not fully serious, so I'm pleased you questioned it. There was no stupidity on your part and no joke to ruin. I was simply attempting to construct an argument that can be made before somebody else did so. It's not something I agree with, and I suspect few could agree with it as being overall good with the examples I used, but the economic upsides do seem, to first order, to be undoubtedly real. It's really more like an adaptation of the Parable of the Broken Window [0]. The problem is that for each commercial party involved, any fixing of the root cause makes things worse for them and those they employ. In other words, this is an area where pandering to business interests will never fix the root problem, because economic improvement for a host of industries requires people getting worse. Politicians don't generally want to put those that elected them out of work. And yet sometimes the alternative is shortening or worsening the lives of others. The thing is nobody will associate the shortened life expectancy or the worsened state of being with the decision-makers but they will if their action causes the loss of their jobs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window
kolbe 9y ago
Poor guy. He's only just started his long journey into a postmodern nihilist breakdown. Once you realize that every core belief you once held was manufactured by a corporation/religion/government in an effort to empower that agency, then life really begins.
- projektir 9y ago
  > Once you realize that every core belief you once held was manufactured by a corporation/religion/government in an effort to empower that agency, then life really begins. This is too extreme. Corporations, governments et. al. are not original generators of these things, they just co-opt them. Exercise is co-opted by many groups, but it didn't originate with those groups, it has always existed and worked really well. Same with most of these things. The fact that an agency decided to make money off of it (why wouldn't it? Why is that, in itself, a negative?) in a capitalist society (where things are valued through money) is... expected? And, in many cases, it's a positive development: making it easier for people to exercise. I'm just not really seeing the nihilism.
  - kolbe 9y ago
    I wasn't trying to convince you. The article's author is going down a very cliche path in life that I've seen many times before, often resulting in some grand multi-year adventure to help get in-touch with yourself (e.g. hiking south america, or living in alaska, or whatever). You are probably going down a different path. I wouldn't expect you to see the things I see nor vice-versa.
  - justinator 9y ago
    > Exercise is co-opted by many groups, but it didn't > originate with those groups, it has always existed and > worked really well. Same with most of these things. We sort of use exercise to supplement our jobs/lifestyle that doesn't require physical activity. The crisis of finding time to exercise is exasperated by the very lifestyle that doesn't give time for the benefits physical activities give you, but still creates feelings stress and anxiety. Feeling bad about not exercising is somewhat of a negative feedback loop.
projektir 9y ago
I'm sympathetic to the point being made, but I think the target (i.e., root cause) is wrong. People trying to improve their lives is not a bad thing, whether that is getting more exercise or trying to be more mindful. That's not actually the problem. On the whole, a given person would live better if they could magically add exercising 3 times a week to their life. The problem is, really, lack of empathy. The problem is that we blame the person for not doing so, instead of their situation. We blanket request that this person achieves this, but not for their benefit, but for ours... People in the world are actually in very different phases of life, and some phases are simply worse than others. People don't all start out at the same exact point so that it takes them all the same amount of resources to reach exercising 3 days a week, for example. People have very different backgrounds. This is often ignored, so the whole idea of self-improvement tends to just not take into account the general ugliness and messiness of the world. Then, people brought up in such a world, comparing themselves to expectations born out of refusing to see the ugly world, will of course feel inadequate. And what this tends to do is squeeze out the people who don't feel welcome and generating an elite of sorts. "Live fitter, happier, more productive" does not have a very diverse audience... Another problem is that modern living simply has more information and tasks to keep track of. The pure amount, after a while, takes a toll that's very hard to directly calculate. But there's a very big difference between stress of having to do 2-3 things, but having little control over other long term things, vs having (theoretical) control of most facets of your life but that resulting in 20-30 things to keep track of. Having so much control creates this impression that everything is your fault, resulting in nearly an endless source of guilt if you don't nip it in the bud. Of course people turn to productivity apps and hacks - they have more to manage and are overloaded! Many people end up unable to manage the process automatically so they, understandably, use various tools to help.
ozim 9y ago
Maybe just start being responsible adult who sees broader would be good start. Seeing through yoga pants marketing trick is not enough. You have to look further. You want perfect models in books, like 4 a.m. waking up CEO. Because we all know it is hard to change or become like model from a book. But you still can be better 5% than yourself a week ago by trying to do it. Responsible adult should know those are only perfect guidelines. You also know no one will buy book that will tell him how to be 5% better. Why would I read story of my neighbor who lifts 5kg more on the gym? How would it motivate me to even try to get better? Whole pop culture and pop science is about creating perfect vision of life. If we achieve 5% of that we will be a lot better.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zamfi 9y ago
Looks like the actual title of this piece is "Fitter, happier, more productive... and other fantasies of millennial life." That has a bit of a different implication. How many older-than-millennial folks feel this same pressure?
- UncleEntity 9y ago
  > How many older-than-millennial folks feel this same pressure? IDK, I think my generation are the ones who took up the mantle and crammed this stuff down the youngsters' throats. I'd imagine that most marketing agencies are run by folks my age who came up through the ranks while the millennials were in their formative years and they grew up being brainwashed by the hippies who took over the education system after their revolution failed. Growing up though, it was perfectly acceptable to be a slacker with plenty of role models on TV and in the movies.
throwaway_234 9y ago
I wonder how much nurture vs. nature plays apart of how much exercise you enjoy/do? I go to the gym twice a week and have done so for years. My mom in her 70s still exercises weekly as she has done since as far as i can remember. I have other active friends whose parents were the same while my inactive friends parents were and are inactive. personally sitting around vs. hiking or climbing a mountain or swimming laps would drive me crazy. Theres so much to experience and enjoy.
xrayzerone 9y ago
After reading some of these comments, how ironic that a bunch of people who purport to want to change the world by building tech companies resonate so nicely with postmodern nihilism. Maybe reconciling that cognitive dissonance is why so many of you are cool with helping GAFA build better ways to surveil you - you can have your tech, your tech salary, and your nihilism too.
gkfasdfasdf 9y ago
A modern version of this song would replace 'Eating well, no more microwave dinners and saturated fats' with 'Eating well, no more processed foods and refined sugars'
dcre 9y ago
I was really hoping for more Marxism.
PeterStuer 9y ago
I was reminded of Gilbreth's (yes, that Gilbreth of "I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it") observation of so called expertise. We are often seduced by the display of intensity and effort, as judging effectiveness much harder and less apparent. "Gilbreth noted was that the so-called expert factory workers are often the most wasteful of their motions and strength. Because of their energy and ability to work at high speed, such men may be able to produce a large quantity of good work, and thus qualify as experts, but they tire themselves out of all proportion to the amount of work done."
randomsearch 9y ago
What I have learned about living so far: Exercise regularly. Sleep well. Eat well. Make time to relax e.g. meditation. That’s pretty much it. Getting up very early sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, and I would never recommend it to anyone. You’re just going to be sleep deprived, and sleep deprived people make dumb decisions and work slowly.
- uhhyeahdude 9y ago
  I am a sleep deprived person, and I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I am experimenting with sleep reduction for a longstanding and difficult affective issue--it works! It also makes me feel dumb; and judging by things I've written recently, I am trading misery for intelligence, at least in certain areas. Misery, it's worth pointing out, can lower an individual's cognitive abilities. Side note: I agree about food and exercise. I knew, from past experience, that I need to pay careful attention to what I eat and how I exert myself. I just couldn't seem to get going. I have no rational explanation, but there you have it. So far, the sleep-restriction experiment, consisting of one night per week without sleep, is showing favorable results. I know I'm coming off as a dullard more than I usually do, but I'm not clawing my face off worrying about it. Oh, and it seemed to lift whatever was preventing me from improving my diet and activity levels. I wish I had a better solution, or that I had some innate drive to just do the things I strongly believe beneficial simply because doing beneficial things is rational.
ponderatul 9y ago
I'm afraid the author has fallen into a very dangerous trap of modernity, that of adding things to improve one's life. You should try the other side of the coin as well. Taking stuff out. Especially junk that is served daily. Mainstream media, endless shows, social media, porn ( if you have that problem ). Replace it with real stuff: walking, meeting with friends etc.

209 points by pranshum 9y ago

Lest we forget coding-er. Programming, for this (my) generation is perceived as a noble, profitable, ideal pursuit for Better People. Hi tech is its own economic class, lifestyle, #goal. While this is obviously backed and semijustified by the economic factors alone - I’ve always felt there’s a false mythology and idealization around “them” (and, later in my career, “us”.)

123212321 9y ago

Probably some of this stuff does work. The real problem is that changing your life is really difficult. Mainly because there is inertia in your environment. People expect you to act and think how you have done in the past, your job expects you to show up at a specific time, think a certain way. The bar you frequent has a set of emotions associated with it. So does the coffee shop. And so it all snowballs, and you try to break free but the memories are everywhere

beams_of_light 9y ago

I'm of the belief that all those stories about CEOs who wake up at 4:30 AM, hit the gym, and have another notch in their belt by 7 AM are not products of their routine, but rather that their routines are products of themselves. One can't usurp those lifestyles without changing their unique set of circumstances up to that point, their genetics, their gut bacteria, or any of a plethora of other factors. Being someone is like being a planet, forged by chance from matter swirling around after chaotically exploding into the universe. Dialogue on the Internet is narrowing our perceptions of what it means to be an individual, and that's not really a good thing, IMO.

matwood 9y ago
As someone who gets up early and works out, I have noticed that the discipline required to make it to the gym early carries through the rest of my life. The flip side is when I start being lazy in one area of my life it permeates to other areas.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Meanwhile Wittgenstein couldn't even deny himself a cup of coffee, and look what he accomplished.
  - projektir 9y ago
    That sounds amusing, do you have a link to something to read about this? (my perusal of Wikipedia was not effective)
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html http://www.paulgraham.com/philosophy.html for an intro of Wittgenstein; http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hs.html for the claim that Wittgenstein couldn't deny himself a cup of coffee, and the implications toward self-discipline and effectiveness.
- AckSyn 9y ago
  As someone who shares this kind of routine, I can say from my own experiences and perception that it's best not to let yourself get too relaxed about the things that matter, and remain focused and dedicated. Diciplining yourself takes a lot of effort and time. Without that (among other things) you will fail to achieve much.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  On the other hand, willpower has been shown in multiple studies to be a limited resource[1], so on days where I force myself to wake up early, I end up making caving and bad decisions later in the day, like eating a bag of doritos. [1]https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/willpower-limited-resource.pdf https://www.apa.org/helpcenter/willpower-limited-resource.pd...
  - beagle3 9y ago
    Baumeister’s ego depletion experiments failed to replicate spectacularly. On phone now, so you’ll need to google yourself.
50 9y ago
On a similar note to your last argument, I recently started devaluing productivity. Have you read Medium's Self topic section? Have you watched any of Gary Vaynerchuk's videos? No thanks, man - I feel nauseous thinking about them. I look around at my classmates, friends, parents, etc, and I don't know. I'm starting to prefer inner cultivation, solitude, present-ness, and peace of mind over my limited views and the world's limited views. Plus, the latter does not necessarily mean laziness or passivity. Again, I don't know, I'm now thinking about how people tend to associate words with exhaustingly fabricated concepts and often forget what words conceal.
scandox 9y ago
Very often they are products of their imagination. The fact is it is much easier to project life mastery than master life. Therefore an intelligent person will often spend energy creating the image since that gives them the reward they really want: admiration, respect and so on.

wutbrodo 9y ago

It seems to me that the author is missing the core problem here. The problem isn't trying to improve oneself, but tying your self-worth to the success (or failure) of these improvement efforts, or hoping for magic habits like IF or polyphasic sleeping or a specific schedule to fix your life. I don't stress about not achieving personal goals immediately, as long as I'm making progress, or at least learning. My diet, for example, is pretty much a model of what many people would ideally like to eat. I didn't do this by going cold turkey, but rather by a decade of trying without judging myself for each failure. By contrast, I've failed pretty hard at trying to wake up earlier over the last decade: instead of forcing myself to do so, I've made sure that my time commitments allow for it. It turns out this was a pretty great way to handle it, as I just found out I've had a sleep disorder for pretty much my entire life. Now that I've addressed it, waking up earlier has become a lot more feasible. If I had pushed myself and judged myself for failing the way the author does, I feel like I would've failed at both those endeavors.

achompas 9y ago
This part about sleeping sounds a lot like me. What was the issue, if I may ask?
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  I’m guessing sleep apnea, as the most common culprit leading to difficulty getting up in the morning. Apnea also frequently is misdiagnosed as ADHD.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  I have unusually sensitive sleep, which I haven't yet addressed, but there were a couple of physical things that were combining with that to make it so that I pretty much never got a restful night. I apparently have GERD, as well as bad enough allergies that my nasal passages weren't open enough. So I started using H2 blockers and nasal strips and the immediate improvement in my quality of life is insane. It manifested in a pretty unintuitive way: the fact that I had to exert a certain amount of pressure to continue breathing through my nose was apparently enough that my body would keep me from ever resting very well. At its worst, I would spend 11 hours in bed and still feel way less rested than _5 hours_ makes me feel now.

ris 9y ago

Interesting that Thom is supposed to be quite embarrassed by Fitter Happier these days and reportedly it's one of the only statements he wishes he could take back.

sideshowb 9y ago
That's interesting, got a source? Also though I wouldn't wish regret on anyone, probably helpful to aspiring artists to know that everyone makes mistakes.
- ris 9y ago
  Not really I'm afraid - can't remember what interview I read it in, but you can probably find something with a bit of creative googling.
  - mattmanser 9y ago
    It's in here, seems to be from interviews in Humo and Q magazine (never heard of the former, remember the latter from the 90s): http://diffuser.fm/radiohead-fitter-happier/ http://diffuser.fm/radiohead-fitter-happier/ "I'm not standing behind the lyrics any more. Sometimes your ideas get entangled with other ideas and then you have to apologise for the original idea because it doesn't make sense any more. That's what happened with 'Fitter Happier.' Now, I listen to the piano part." The ending line is pretty harsh on people who just want to improve their lives ("A pig in a cage on antibiotics"), I've always had mixed feelings about the song when I've heard it when trying to fix a (perceived?) problem in my life. It's a a bit of a childish view on adults, every lyric writer will look back on his teenage/early 20s thoughts and see that growing older has suddenly made you understand your elders and cringe at how ridiculous your views actually were when you're young, immortal and carefree. When it turns out youth doesn't last, we all die and mummy and daddy stop paying at some point.

kerpal 9y ago

What I always wonder is why strive for productivity at all? I see all these self-help blog posts about boosting productivity, getting more out of your day, etc. They all seem to eschew the virtues of productivity in lieu of hedonism. Can't we have both? Or is the problem moderation? If we don't balance productivity with enjoyment and relaxation we oscillate from each extreme. I confess I've been a bit obsessed with self-help books and websites. With that said, when I compare my more productive self to my time-wasting, hedonistic side, I prefer to have a mix of both. Striving for the extreme hacks to maximize time to be more productive seem pointless if you aren't having fun or enjoying yourself. Strive for achievement sure, but also enjoy life.

tammer 9y ago
The key is understanding your own long term and legacy goals. Then you can estimate whether your current productivity will get you there. If you aren’t clear on what it is you want, you’ll always be caught feeling unsure if you’re doing enough.
- ipython 9y ago
  That is so true. Much of my anxiety stems from being unsure of my personal wants and not being able to separate other people’s wants from my own. Well said.
Trundle 9y ago
For some of us productivity is needed to be able to do the leisure activities we really want. If that's not the case then sure, just skip straight to the leisure.
your-nanny 9y ago
If increasing my productivity doesn't increase my salary, but decreases my happiness, then why indeed?
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  This is an interesting idea. (Office Space interview with the "Bobs" comes to mind) Would you say that your experience fits with the idea that many people are more productive because of recognition from their manager/boss is more valuable than money? (within reasonable parameters)

internetman55 9y ago

didn't read the article closely, but i'm sick of people getting memed into caring about things like intermittent fasting and honey vinegar drinks (???) and mindfulness meditation apps. It seems like people are unable to focus on the big picture stuff that actually matters (don't get fat, sleep enough, have enough money to not be broke, have good relationships with family and friends, managing stress effectively, etc.). So they get obsessed with these random things nobody gives a fuck about and fail at the big picture stuff.

rlayton2 9y ago
Yeah, I had a mental argument with myself on Nootropics. I was starting to investigate them and just thought "Hold on, you aren't even exercising regularly. Do that first.". I'm sure the gains from moving to regular exercise from not-doing-so are going to be a bigger step anyway.
RobertRoberts 9y ago
I find that these things _can_ go hand in hand. Being physically healthy won't make you nicer, but if you are healthy, it's easier to have more patience (as one example of a complimentary benefit). I am nicer and more forgiving when I don't have a sore throat or a migraine. And when I have more energy, I can play with kids instead of taking a nap.
- taneq 9y ago
  I think it's a very analogous situation with wealth, actually. "More money won't make you a better person," but if you're broke and desperate you're more likely to do something shifty to survive. Likewise, being physically healthy and getting enough sleep won't "make you a better person" but if you're sick and chronically sleep-deprived it sure can make you behave like a prick.
  - RobertRoberts 9y ago
    >...but if you're sick and chronically sleep-deprived it sure can make you behave like a prick. Or make it _harder_ to not behave like a prick?

amriksohata 9y ago

The biggest culprit is unregulated modern business, it feeds us rubbish food through mass marketing, which leads to crappy guts and depression, stress through aggresive worklife and focus on quick success. The underlying emotions are greed and gluttony.

dpwm 9y ago
I think you're ignoring the many positives in this. What would happen to the change-your-life-in-24-hours book segment of the economy; the fad-diet book industry; the people who claim authorship of the books; the photographers who sell their images to a middleman to license to the publisher; the publishers that print them. And when the books don't work because there's an entire industry devoted to feeding consumers misinformation and convincing them that the low-effort obvious things they can do (moving your diet as far away as possible from what the processed food industry is selling and becoming more active) won't work unless you're deeply abnormal in some way, the situation is beneficial to the healthcare industry that benefits from prescribing antidepressants and treating obesity-related diseases. The wealth-creators of these industries are creating jobs in growing sectors of the economy. If you fix the real underlying problems, people will be out of their livelihoods.
- RobertRoberts 9y ago
  Just to clarify (I am dense) this is a sarcastic post, right? (please forgive my stupidity if you are being serious, and if not, for wrecking your joke)
  - sinsterizme 9y ago
    Nothing funny about what he said
  - dpwm 9y ago
    Definitely not fully serious, so I'm pleased you questioned it. There was no stupidity on your part and no joke to ruin. I was simply attempting to construct an argument that can be made before somebody else did so. It's not something I agree with, and I suspect few could agree with it as being overall good with the examples I used, but the economic upsides do seem, to first order, to be undoubtedly real. It's really more like an adaptation of the Parable of the Broken Window [0]. The problem is that for each commercial party involved, any fixing of the root cause makes things worse for them and those they employ. In other words, this is an area where pandering to business interests will never fix the root problem, because economic improvement for a host of industries requires people getting worse. Politicians don't generally want to put those that elected them out of work. And yet sometimes the alternative is shortening or worsening the lives of others. The thing is nobody will associate the shortened life expectancy or the worsened state of being with the decision-makers but they will if their action causes the loss of their jobs. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window

kolbe 9y ago

Poor guy. He's only just started his long journey into a postmodern nihilist breakdown. Once you realize that every core belief you once held was manufactured by a corporation/religion/government in an effort to empower that agency, then life really begins.

projektir 9y ago
> Once you realize that every core belief you once held was manufactured by a corporation/religion/government in an effort to empower that agency, then life really begins. This is too extreme. Corporations, governments et. al. are not original generators of these things, they just co-opt them. Exercise is co-opted by many groups, but it didn't originate with those groups, it has always existed and worked really well. Same with most of these things. The fact that an agency decided to make money off of it (why wouldn't it? Why is that, in itself, a negative?) in a capitalist society (where things are valued through money) is... expected? And, in many cases, it's a positive development: making it easier for people to exercise. I'm just not really seeing the nihilism.
- kolbe 9y ago
  I wasn't trying to convince you. The article's author is going down a very cliche path in life that I've seen many times before, often resulting in some grand multi-year adventure to help get in-touch with yourself (e.g. hiking south america, or living in alaska, or whatever). You are probably going down a different path. I wouldn't expect you to see the things I see nor vice-versa.
- justinator 9y ago
  > Exercise is co-opted by many groups, but it didn't > originate with those groups, it has always existed and > worked really well. Same with most of these things. We sort of use exercise to supplement our jobs/lifestyle that doesn't require physical activity. The crisis of finding time to exercise is exasperated by the very lifestyle that doesn't give time for the benefits physical activities give you, but still creates feelings stress and anxiety. Feeling bad about not exercising is somewhat of a negative feedback loop.

projektir 9y ago

I'm sympathetic to the point being made, but I think the target (i.e., root cause) is wrong. People trying to improve their lives is not a bad thing, whether that is getting more exercise or trying to be more mindful. That's not actually the problem. On the whole, a given person would live better if they could magically add exercising 3 times a week to their life. The problem is, really, lack of empathy. The problem is that we blame the person for not doing so, instead of their situation. We blanket request that this person achieves this, but not for their benefit, but for ours... People in the world are actually in very different phases of life, and some phases are simply worse than others. People don't all start out at the same exact point so that it takes them all the same amount of resources to reach exercising 3 days a week, for example. People have very different backgrounds. This is often ignored, so the whole idea of self-improvement tends to just not take into account the general ugliness and messiness of the world. Then, people brought up in such a world, comparing themselves to expectations born out of refusing to see the ugly world, will of course feel inadequate. And what this tends to do is squeeze out the people who don't feel welcome and generating an elite of sorts. "Live fitter, happier, more productive" does not have a very diverse audience... Another problem is that modern living simply has more information and tasks to keep track of. The pure amount, after a while, takes a toll that's very hard to directly calculate. But there's a very big difference between stress of having to do 2-3 things, but having little control over other long term things, vs having (theoretical) control of most facets of your life but that resulting in 20-30 things to keep track of. Having so much control creates this impression that everything is your fault, resulting in nearly an endless source of guilt if you don't nip it in the bud. Of course people turn to productivity apps and hacks - they have more to manage and are overloaded! Many people end up unable to manage the process automatically so they, understandably, use various tools to help.

ozim 9y ago

Maybe just start being responsible adult who sees broader would be good start. Seeing through yoga pants marketing trick is not enough. You have to look further. You want perfect models in books, like 4 a.m. waking up CEO. Because we all know it is hard to change or become like model from a book. But you still can be better 5% than yourself a week ago by trying to do it. Responsible adult should know those are only perfect guidelines. You also know no one will buy book that will tell him how to be 5% better. Why would I read story of my neighbor who lifts 5kg more on the gym? How would it motivate me to even try to get better? Whole pop culture and pop science is about creating perfect vision of life. If we achieve 5% of that we will be a lot better.

deleted 9y ago

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zamfi 9y ago

Looks like the actual title of this piece is "Fitter, happier, more productive... and other fantasies of millennial life." That has a bit of a different implication. How many older-than-millennial folks feel this same pressure?

UncleEntity 9y ago
> How many older-than-millennial folks feel this same pressure? IDK, I think my generation are the ones who took up the mantle and crammed this stuff down the youngsters' throats. I'd imagine that most marketing agencies are run by folks my age who came up through the ranks while the millennials were in their formative years and they grew up being brainwashed by the hippies who took over the education system after their revolution failed. Growing up though, it was perfectly acceptable to be a slacker with plenty of role models on TV and in the movies.

throwaway_234 9y ago

I wonder how much nurture vs. nature plays apart of how much exercise you enjoy/do? I go to the gym twice a week and have done so for years. My mom in her 70s still exercises weekly as she has done since as far as i can remember. I have other active friends whose parents were the same while my inactive friends parents were and are inactive. personally sitting around vs. hiking or climbing a mountain or swimming laps would drive me crazy. Theres so much to experience and enjoy.

xrayzerone 9y ago

After reading some of these comments, how ironic that a bunch of people who purport to want to change the world by building tech companies resonate so nicely with postmodern nihilism. Maybe reconciling that cognitive dissonance is why so many of you are cool with helping GAFA build better ways to surveil you - you can have your tech, your tech salary, and your nihilism too.

gkfasdfasdf 9y ago

A modern version of this song would replace 'Eating well, no more microwave dinners and saturated fats' with 'Eating well, no more processed foods and refined sugars'

dcre 9y ago

I was really hoping for more Marxism.

PeterStuer 9y ago

I was reminded of Gilbreth's (yes, that Gilbreth of "I will always choose a lazy person to do a difficult job because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it") observation of so called expertise. We are often seduced by the display of intensity and effort, as judging effectiveness much harder and less apparent. "Gilbreth noted was that the so-called expert factory workers are often the most wasteful of their motions and strength. Because of their energy and ability to work at high speed, such men may be able to produce a large quantity of good work, and thus qualify as experts, but they tire themselves out of all proportion to the amount of work done."

randomsearch 9y ago

What I have learned about living so far: Exercise regularly. Sleep well. Eat well. Make time to relax e.g. meditation. That’s pretty much it. Getting up very early sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, and I would never recommend it to anyone. You’re just going to be sleep deprived, and sleep deprived people make dumb decisions and work slowly.

uhhyeahdude 9y ago
I am a sleep deprived person, and I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly. I am experimenting with sleep reduction for a longstanding and difficult affective issue--it works! It also makes me feel dumb; and judging by things I've written recently, I am trading misery for intelligence, at least in certain areas. Misery, it's worth pointing out, can lower an individual's cognitive abilities. Side note: I agree about food and exercise. I knew, from past experience, that I need to pay careful attention to what I eat and how I exert myself. I just couldn't seem to get going. I have no rational explanation, but there you have it. So far, the sleep-restriction experiment, consisting of one night per week without sleep, is showing favorable results. I know I'm coming off as a dullard more than I usually do, but I'm not clawing my face off worrying about it. Oh, and it seemed to lift whatever was preventing me from improving my diet and activity levels. I wish I had a better solution, or that I had some innate drive to just do the things I strongly believe beneficial simply because doing beneficial things is rational.

ponderatul 9y ago

I'm afraid the author has fallen into a very dangerous trap of modernity, that of adding things to improve one's life. You should try the other side of the coin as well. Taking stuff out. Especially junk that is served daily. Mainstream media, endless shows, social media, porn ( if you have that problem ). Replace it with real stuff: walking, meeting with friends etc.