4 ms·

The is a very personal opinion and subject to taste rather anything quantifiable. It’s also possible for VW to cater to more than one type of customer so take

by Lio 9y ago

The is a very personal opinion and subject to taste rather anything quantifiable. It’s also possible for VW to cater to more than one type of customer so take the following with a pinch of salt. To me there’s something intellectually dishonest about these retro models. In the original Beetle and Transporter they started with function and then gave it form. Doing it the other way round will not produce a truely desirable classic only something momentarily fashionable. The same goes for their T-Rock model, mentioned in the article. Instead of designing for offroad performance they’ve taken a road car and just added enough shoulder pads, fake pockets and redundant zips to puff it up to look like a small off-roader. It’s for people who think they need to go off road but really know they never will. Its size is just large enough that they won’t feel intimidated by other vehicles when sitting traffic jams. That extra size of course come as a compromise to the vehicle real purpose as a road car. Personally I’d much rather have a new and improved Golf or Transporter/California.

camillomiller 9y ago
Agree on the beetle, not on the t-roc. My parents just bought one. Their reasons: they like to feel “tall” on the road, but they hate SUVs and jeep-style cars so this is the right compromise.
izacus 9y ago
>Instead of designing for offroad performance they’ve taken a road car and just added enough shoulder pads, fake pockets and redundant zips to puff it up to look like a small off-roader. This is actually an extremely popular segment these days (see Audi Q1/Q3, Mercedes GLA, BMW X1, Mazda CX-3, Škoda Karoq, Peugeot 1008, Kia Stonic, etc. etc.) which apparently outsells the previously most popular "Golf" class of cars. By a lot. People seem to like the higher sitting position and feel safer with more puffed up form of these cars. Even if they have significantly less space inside.
- GoToRO 9y ago
  Also, potholes, bad road in general and... ski trips.
- ivanhoe 9y ago
  IMHO the looks play the most important role in the popularity of the "fake SUVs". They look sexy and robust and higher class...
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Don’t discount sitting position as a major benefit for many consumers. When everyone else is driving them, you feel at a disadvantage in a normal car when it comes to seeing the road in traffic. An arms race so to speak. I find the Q3, X1, GLA as well as the MDX and so on absolutely gaudey in appearance. They don’t look nice at all.
- s4vi0r 9y ago
  I find that the people who feel "safer" or whatever in these cars tend to be the worst drivers. Also, they often pull into intersections to make left turns without moving their car, making it impossible to turn until the light goes yellow or red. I really wish there were fines or demerit points for doing that shit. That, and/or require stricter licensing for larger cars. Giving a skittish person who doesn't "feel safe" in a normal car an even bigger car where they're more insulated from their surroundings is a recipe for disaster.
- verylittlemeat 9y ago
  I just want to add to this that many older people with hip issues really appreciate higher sitting positions. Might not be market-making but I'm sure it's a factor in many purchases
dorfsmay 9y ago
> they started with function So true, from the History section of the Beatle's wikipedia page: "In May 1934, at a meeting at Berlin's Kaiserhof Hotel, Chancellor Hitler insisted on a basic vehicle that could transport two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph) while not using more than 7 litres of fuel per 100 km (32 mpg US/39 mpg UK). The engine had to be powerful for sustained cruising on Germany's new Autobahnen. Everything had to be designed to ensure parts could be quickly and inexpensively exchanged. The engine had to be air-cooled because, as Hitler explained, not every country doctor had his own garage. (Ethylene glycol antifreeze was only just beginning to be used in high-performance liquid-cooled aircraft engines. In general, radiators filled with water would freeze unless the vehicle was kept in a heated building overnight or drained and refilled each morning.)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle
CaptainZapp 9y ago
I totally agree. Another bad example for a spruced up retro car is the Mini. It's as if they took the old Mini and fed it too much anabolic steroids (oh yeah, and jacked up the price three-fold). The only half way acceptable retro car is the Fiat 500.
- wazoox 9y ago
  The new 500 is more different from the old one than the new Mini to the old one. The original cinquecento was half as big; you could literally make a U-Turn in a single lane, because of the rear engine, you could turn the wheel to unbelievable angles. When you were more than 1.85 m high, you had to drive it with the sun roof open (and half your head outside) because it was so small. you could park at 90° to other cars because the car was so short (it's probably not as long as a modern Dodge RAM is wide). However you could still cram 4 people inside with some luggage and (very slowly) ride around.
tlb 9y ago
There are lots of cars where form follows function. A Toyota Camry, for example. The form follows from its function as a safe, cost-effective family sedan. All other cars with the same function are slight variations on the theme. If you want interesting forms, you have to start with an interesting function. The Beetle was a novel combination of function and cost constraints in its day. So were the classic Jeeps. But if you want a safe, cost-effective family sedan, there's no way you can follow that function to get a form much different than a Camry. Thus all such cars look like a Camry with some gratuitous styling.

by Lio 9y ago

camillomiller 9y ago

Agree on the beetle, not on the t-roc. My parents just bought one. Their reasons: they like to feel “tall” on the road, but they hate SUVs and jeep-style cars so this is the right compromise.

izacus 9y ago

>Instead of designing for offroad performance they’ve taken a road car and just added enough shoulder pads, fake pockets and redundant zips to puff it up to look like a small off-roader. This is actually an extremely popular segment these days (see Audi Q1/Q3, Mercedes GLA, BMW X1, Mazda CX-3, Škoda Karoq, Peugeot 1008, Kia Stonic, etc. etc.) which apparently outsells the previously most popular "Golf" class of cars. By a lot. People seem to like the higher sitting position and feel safer with more puffed up form of these cars. Even if they have significantly less space inside.

GoToRO 9y ago
Also, potholes, bad road in general and... ski trips.
ivanhoe 9y ago
IMHO the looks play the most important role in the popularity of the "fake SUVs". They look sexy and robust and higher class...
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Don’t discount sitting position as a major benefit for many consumers. When everyone else is driving them, you feel at a disadvantage in a normal car when it comes to seeing the road in traffic. An arms race so to speak. I find the Q3, X1, GLA as well as the MDX and so on absolutely gaudey in appearance. They don’t look nice at all.
s4vi0r 9y ago
I find that the people who feel "safer" or whatever in these cars tend to be the worst drivers. Also, they often pull into intersections to make left turns without moving their car, making it impossible to turn until the light goes yellow or red. I really wish there were fines or demerit points for doing that shit. That, and/or require stricter licensing for larger cars. Giving a skittish person who doesn't "feel safe" in a normal car an even bigger car where they're more insulated from their surroundings is a recipe for disaster.
verylittlemeat 9y ago
I just want to add to this that many older people with hip issues really appreciate higher sitting positions. Might not be market-making but I'm sure it's a factor in many purchases

dorfsmay 9y ago

> they started with function So true, from the History section of the Beatle's wikipedia page: "In May 1934, at a meeting at Berlin's Kaiserhof Hotel, Chancellor Hitler insisted on a basic vehicle that could transport two adults and three children at 100 km/h (62 mph) while not using more than 7 litres of fuel per 100 km (32 mpg US/39 mpg UK). The engine had to be powerful for sustained cruising on Germany's new Autobahnen. Everything had to be designed to ensure parts could be quickly and inexpensively exchanged. The engine had to be air-cooled because, as Hitler explained, not every country doctor had his own garage. (Ethylene glycol antifreeze was only just beginning to be used in high-performance liquid-cooled aircraft engines. In general, radiators filled with water would freeze unless the vehicle was kept in a heated building overnight or drained and refilled each morning.)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Beetle

CaptainZapp 9y ago

I totally agree. Another bad example for a spruced up retro car is the Mini. It's as if they took the old Mini and fed it too much anabolic steroids (oh yeah, and jacked up the price three-fold). The only half way acceptable retro car is the Fiat 500.

wazoox 9y ago
The new 500 is more different from the old one than the new Mini to the old one. The original cinquecento was half as big; you could literally make a U-Turn in a single lane, because of the rear engine, you could turn the wheel to unbelievable angles. When you were more than 1.85 m high, you had to drive it with the sun roof open (and half your head outside) because it was so small. you could park at 90° to other cars because the car was so short (it's probably not as long as a modern Dodge RAM is wide). However you could still cram 4 people inside with some luggage and (very slowly) ride around.

tlb 9y ago

There are lots of cars where form follows function. A Toyota Camry, for example. The form follows from its function as a safe, cost-effective family sedan. All other cars with the same function are slight variations on the theme. If you want interesting forms, you have to start with an interesting function. The Beetle was a novel combination of function and cost constraints in its day. So were the classic Jeeps. But if you want a safe, cost-effective family sedan, there's no way you can follow that function to get a form much different than a Camry. Thus all such cars look like a Camry with some gratuitous styling.