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There's been a crack down on enforcing tickets to people riding these scooters without helmets - which are not supplied with the scooters that sit on sidewalks.

There's been a crack down on enforcing tickets to people riding these scooters without helmets - which are not supplied with the scooters that sit on sidewalks. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-scooters-20180307-story.html http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-scooters-20180307-s... http://smdp.com/bird-lovers-tweet-as-tickets-ruffle-feathers/164289 http://smdp.com/bird-lovers-tweet-as-tickets-ruffle-feathers... https://dailybruin.com/2018/02/20/ucpd-begins-to-enforce-traffic-rules-on-bird-scooter-riders/ https://dailybruin.com/2018/02/20/ucpd-begins-to-enforce-tra... https://patch.com/california/santamonica/santa-monica-cracks-down-bird-scooter-riders https://patch.com/california/santamonica/santa-monica-cracks... "Bird Rides Inc. has a business license to operate a brick-and-mortar administrative office," Santa Monica public information officer Constance Farrell told Los Angeles Times, "but they do not have the appropriate license to operate scooters in an ad hoc manner on the public right of way." In an attempt to increase safety, Bird has begun giving out free helmets to its users – so far, they've delivered 2,500 free helmets which can be ordered from the "safety" tab in the app, according to Los Angeles Times.

dvt 9y ago
Yep! Just posted the same sentiment. I have friends (and friends of friends) that have already gotten fined.
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  That's unfortunate. Seattle just launched a new bikesharing program (several, actually, which are privately operated and seem to be completing), and while we do have a helmet law, the cops have sort of informally agreed to look the other way provided you're not being seriously reckless: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/helmets-may-be-seattle-law-but-many-bike-share-riders-dont-wear-them/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/hel... It's pretty much a necessity for programs like this to work.
  - dvt 9y ago
    I'm not sure if it's unfortunate at all. Seatbelt and helmet laws save like 15,000 lives every year. There's a very good reason they were legislated. I'm all for reducing government overhead and overreach, but I don't think helmet laws are a good example.
    - Analemma_ 9y ago
      I think if you want these programs at all, you have to make difficult decisions. The fact is, nobody is going to carry a helmet around on the off chance they are going to use a rideshare. If they have one at all, they're using their own vehicle. I've used Seattle's bikeshares a few dozen times now, and I love it a great deal, but I never would've bothered if I had to wear a helmet - I would've just taken an Uber or something. I have even seen some people claim that, measured in QALYs other such utilitarian metrics, helmet laws make people unhealthier on average in that they discourage riding bicycles and that the net effect of this is worse than the increased risk, but I don't know how reliable that result is.
      - dvt 9y ago
        Not sure why you're getting downvoted, I think you're making valid points. Paternalistic laws definitely have upsides and downsides (upside of safety, downside of lacking autonomy). I think your idea might work in cities that have designated bike lanes or bike-only roads. For example, in Santa Monica, we have some bike-only lanes, so it might work here, but like in downtown LA, it would be a shitshow and I can basically guarantee that people will die at some point. And then you have to deal with that mess.
    - Afton 9y ago
      One of the things that makes cyclists safer is having more other cyclists on the road. I'm happy to wear my helmet, but if others don't, I just want them on the road. In aggregate, we'll all be safer, even though some will choose not to wear helmets. Specifically: Even those that choose not to wear helmets will be safer due to the increase in ridership. The comparison to seat-belts isn't appropriate because my not wearing a seat-belt in a car accident increases risk for others (specifically others in the same car as me). There is also fairly conflicted evidence that helmets are effective. There is a fairly narrow treatment range where they work well. Be hit by something going faster or slower than that range, and they don't matter much. They are nothing like full-face motorcycle helmets. There is also evidence (although not well replicated?) that drivers treat helmeted cyclists worse than unhelmeted ones.
dharmab 9y ago
Helmets should be fitted for each individual's head size and shape. Generic helmets supplied at the sidewalk won't fit everyone.
- jdavis703 9y ago
  Bicyclists aren't required to wear helmets in CA. As long as these scooters don't go more than 25 MPH I don't see why they shouldn't be treated any differently from a legal perspective.
  - BillTheBiker 9y ago
    From a legal perspective, how would going more than 25 MPH be relevant?
    - jdavis703 9y ago
      Higher speeds are more dangerous, and thus require more safety equipment.
  - that_one_fool 9y ago
    Never understood this either, the law says its only for < 18: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California#Bicycle_helmets_for_minors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California#Bicy... https://www.tracy.k12.ca.us/sites/bes/Documents/Bicyle%20Helmet%20law.pdf https://www.tracy.k12.ca.us/sites/bes/Documents/Bicyle%20Hel... http://losangelesbicycleattorney.com/bicycle-helmet-laws-whats-required-in-ca/ http://losangelesbicycleattorney.com/bicycle-helmet-laws-wha... I wonder what they are getting ticketed for
  - jonas21 9y ago
    California law specifically requires wearing a helmet when riding a motorized scooter: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters Here's the full text: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&division=11.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=5 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x....

dvt 9y ago

Yep! Just posted the same sentiment. I have friends (and friends of friends) that have already gotten fined.

Analemma_ 9y ago
That's unfortunate. Seattle just launched a new bikesharing program (several, actually, which are privately operated and seem to be completing), and while we do have a helmet law, the cops have sort of informally agreed to look the other way provided you're not being seriously reckless: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/helmets-may-be-seattle-law-but-many-bike-share-riders-dont-wear-them/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/hel... It's pretty much a necessity for programs like this to work.
- dvt 9y ago
  I'm not sure if it's unfortunate at all. Seatbelt and helmet laws save like 15,000 lives every year. There's a very good reason they were legislated. I'm all for reducing government overhead and overreach, but I don't think helmet laws are a good example.
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    I think if you want these programs at all, you have to make difficult decisions. The fact is, nobody is going to carry a helmet around on the off chance they are going to use a rideshare. If they have one at all, they're using their own vehicle. I've used Seattle's bikeshares a few dozen times now, and I love it a great deal, but I never would've bothered if I had to wear a helmet - I would've just taken an Uber or something. I have even seen some people claim that, measured in QALYs other such utilitarian metrics, helmet laws make people unhealthier on average in that they discourage riding bicycles and that the net effect of this is worse than the increased risk, but I don't know how reliable that result is.
    - dvt 9y ago
      Not sure why you're getting downvoted, I think you're making valid points. Paternalistic laws definitely have upsides and downsides (upside of safety, downside of lacking autonomy). I think your idea might work in cities that have designated bike lanes or bike-only roads. For example, in Santa Monica, we have some bike-only lanes, so it might work here, but like in downtown LA, it would be a shitshow and I can basically guarantee that people will die at some point. And then you have to deal with that mess.
  - Afton 9y ago
    One of the things that makes cyclists safer is having more other cyclists on the road. I'm happy to wear my helmet, but if others don't, I just want them on the road. In aggregate, we'll all be safer, even though some will choose not to wear helmets. Specifically: Even those that choose not to wear helmets will be safer due to the increase in ridership. The comparison to seat-belts isn't appropriate because my not wearing a seat-belt in a car accident increases risk for others (specifically others in the same car as me). There is also fairly conflicted evidence that helmets are effective. There is a fairly narrow treatment range where they work well. Be hit by something going faster or slower than that range, and they don't matter much. They are nothing like full-face motorcycle helmets. There is also evidence (although not well replicated?) that drivers treat helmeted cyclists worse than unhelmeted ones.

dharmab 9y ago

Helmets should be fitted for each individual's head size and shape. Generic helmets supplied at the sidewalk won't fit everyone.

jdavis703 9y ago
Bicyclists aren't required to wear helmets in CA. As long as these scooters don't go more than 25 MPH I don't see why they shouldn't be treated any differently from a legal perspective.
- BillTheBiker 9y ago
  From a legal perspective, how would going more than 25 MPH be relevant?
  - jdavis703 9y ago
    Higher speeds are more dangerous, and thus require more safety equipment.
- that_one_fool 9y ago
  Never understood this either, the law says its only for < 18: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California#Bicycle_helmets_for_minors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law_in_California#Bicy... https://www.tracy.k12.ca.us/sites/bes/Documents/Bicyle%20Helmet%20law.pdf https://www.tracy.k12.ca.us/sites/bes/Documents/Bicyle%20Hel... http://losangelesbicycleattorney.com/bicycle-helmet-laws-whats-required-in-ca/ http://losangelesbicycleattorney.com/bicycle-helmet-laws-wha... I wonder what they are getting ticketed for
- jonas21 9y ago
  California law specifically requires wearing a helmet when riding a motorized scooter: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/scooters Here's the full text: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&division=11.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=5 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.x....