5 ms·

Prison was put in place as a catch all when we didn't understand all the ways humans could be broken. Now we have a better idea, but we don't use that informat

Prison was put in place as a catch all when we didn't understand all the ways humans could be broken. Now we have a better idea, but we don't use that information. Instead low iq career criminals are incarcerated with high iq crimes of passion like Hans Reiser. Then you add drug addicts and child molesters to the mix. Hans Reiser would likely never kill another person in his life if he was free. If he could have full access to a computer he would have likely continued to learn and build things. Instead we dump him with the rest of the dregs of society together into a broken system who's main role is retribution, which IMO is a human instinct we should fight against not codify. It seems a lot like the public school system in it's general lack of differentiation in regards to inputs(prisoners). In terms of a learning system, it's diverged.

foldr 9y ago
> Hans Reiser would likely never kill another person in his life if he was free. Why not? He killed one already for no good reason. His high IQ just means he has less of an excuse. It doesn't make him a better person.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- homonculus1 9y ago
  I'm sick of the apologia for these unforgivable criminals. By all means separate them from each other based on circumstances, for their own good, but if you murder people you're unfit to live in society, full stop.
  - derefr 9y ago
    The GP's point, I think, is that "unfit to live in society" doesn't mean "must live in some sort of hell-hole." Prison can just be another, slightly worse society. Like penal colonies were, before we stopped doing those.
    - homonculus1 9y ago
      That's fair, perhaps I misread it.
    - wils1245 9y ago
      I thought the point was that we should look at IQ in determining punishment and risk of recidivism. Which is a deeply misguided idea.
      - nate_meurer 9y ago
        I can see how you got that, but it's not at all how I read it. I don't think whataretensors is proposing that Hans Resier's abilities should lessen his punishment, but rather that we should allow him to continue using his abilities during his incarceration, and possibly contribute to society instead of being dead weight.
      - whataretensors 9y ago
        >I thought the point was that we should look at IQ in determining punishment and risk of recidivism That was not my point. My point was the system does not differentiate among people.
  - Fjolsvith 9y ago
    If you murder 'people' or murder a person? What about manslaughter? Is that full stop too?
cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
>Hans Reiser would likely never kill another person in his life if he was free. You seriously think that he wouldn't kill again if his next wife or lover "betrayed him" in his mind? If you feel that way, why don't we just give his children a pass to murder him because he took their mother from them? >If he could have full access to a computer he would have likely continued to learn and build things. Instead we dump him with the rest of the dregs of society He murdered his wife, a crime to which he freely plead guilty. He is the dregs of society.
kamranjon 9y ago
Aside from this being a morally unhinged argument that you're trying to make here - Reiserfs had some pretty glaring issues involving locks and disk corruption that were never really addressed. I think it's probably best he focus on his issues rather than half baked file systems for the remainder of his sentence.
adamsea 9y ago
> Instead we dump him with the rest of the dregs of society You’re really one for the common man, huh? In all seriousness though, whether or not Reisner would be a productive member of society if released, isn’t the right thing to do to focus first on identifying and freeing people on death row who are wrongfully convicted? And, if we are speaking of justice, nonviolent offenders in prison because of draconian drug laws? And then after that get around to violent offenders whose chance of recidivism is low? https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf
- adamsea 9y ago
  Oh - and, if it’s squandered human potential we care about, meaningful reentry programs for those who have served their time, and allowing them to vote?
JauntTrooper 9y ago
I wasn’t familiar with the Reiser case, but just read it. He murdered his wife, hid the body, lied and denied it vigorously in court, was found guilty of premeditated (first degree) murder, and bargained it down to second degree murder charges by showing the police where he buried her body. I think a life sentence is reasonable for that.
- rlanday 9y ago
  He was offered and declined a plea bargain that would’ve given him the minimum sentence of three years: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/10/reiser_rejected_voluntary_manslaughter_plea/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/10/reiser_rejected_vol... The guy’s a delusional moron… Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser#Time_in_prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser#Time_in_prison “In July 2012, a jury awarded Reiser's children $60 million against their father for the death of Nina Reiser. Reiser acted as his own attorney during the trial and tried to argue that he killed his wife to protect their children.” It’s unclear that a parole board will find him to be a very sympathetic character.
  - mixmastamyk 9y ago
    Where did all that money come from? Moron is right.
jhbadger 9y ago
He killed his wife because she wanted to leave him. How can we know he wouldn't act the same way in any future relationship turned sour?

foldr 9y ago

> Hans Reiser would likely never kill another person in his life if he was free. Why not? He killed one already for no good reason. His high IQ just means he has less of an excuse. It doesn't make him a better person.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
homonculus1 9y ago
I'm sick of the apologia for these unforgivable criminals. By all means separate them from each other based on circumstances, for their own good, but if you murder people you're unfit to live in society, full stop.
- derefr 9y ago
  The GP's point, I think, is that "unfit to live in society" doesn't mean "must live in some sort of hell-hole." Prison can just be another, slightly worse society. Like penal colonies were, before we stopped doing those.
  - homonculus1 9y ago
    That's fair, perhaps I misread it.
  - wils1245 9y ago
    I thought the point was that we should look at IQ in determining punishment and risk of recidivism. Which is a deeply misguided idea.
    - nate_meurer 9y ago
      I can see how you got that, but it's not at all how I read it. I don't think whataretensors is proposing that Hans Resier's abilities should lessen his punishment, but rather that we should allow him to continue using his abilities during his incarceration, and possibly contribute to society instead of being dead weight.
    - whataretensors 9y ago
      >I thought the point was that we should look at IQ in determining punishment and risk of recidivism That was not my point. My point was the system does not differentiate among people.
- Fjolsvith 9y ago
  If you murder 'people' or murder a person? What about manslaughter? Is that full stop too?

cuckcuckspruce 9y ago

>Hans Reiser would likely never kill another person in his life if he was free. You seriously think that he wouldn't kill again if his next wife or lover "betrayed him" in his mind? If you feel that way, why don't we just give his children a pass to murder him because he took their mother from them? >If he could have full access to a computer he would have likely continued to learn and build things. Instead we dump him with the rest of the dregs of society He murdered his wife, a crime to which he freely plead guilty. He is the dregs of society.

kamranjon 9y ago

Aside from this being a morally unhinged argument that you're trying to make here - Reiserfs had some pretty glaring issues involving locks and disk corruption that were never really addressed. I think it's probably best he focus on his issues rather than half baked file systems for the remainder of his sentence.

adamsea 9y ago

> Instead we dump him with the rest of the dregs of society You’re really one for the common man, huh? In all seriousness though, whether or not Reisner would be a productive member of society if released, isn’t the right thing to do to focus first on identifying and freeing people on death row who are wrongfully convicted? And, if we are speaking of justice, nonviolent offenders in prison because of draconian drug laws? And then after that get around to violent offenders whose chance of recidivism is low? https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

adamsea 9y ago
Oh - and, if it’s squandered human potential we care about, meaningful reentry programs for those who have served their time, and allowing them to vote?

JauntTrooper 9y ago

I wasn’t familiar with the Reiser case, but just read it. He murdered his wife, hid the body, lied and denied it vigorously in court, was found guilty of premeditated (first degree) murder, and bargained it down to second degree murder charges by showing the police where he buried her body. I think a life sentence is reasonable for that.

rlanday 9y ago
He was offered and declined a plea bargain that would’ve given him the minimum sentence of three years: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/10/reiser_rejected_voluntary_manslaughter_plea/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/10/reiser_rejected_vol... The guy’s a delusional moron… Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser#Time_in_prison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser#Time_in_prison “In July 2012, a jury awarded Reiser's children $60 million against their father for the death of Nina Reiser. Reiser acted as his own attorney during the trial and tried to argue that he killed his wife to protect their children.” It’s unclear that a parole board will find him to be a very sympathetic character.
- mixmastamyk 9y ago
  Where did all that money come from? Moron is right.

jhbadger 9y ago

He killed his wife because she wanted to leave him. How can we know he wouldn't act the same way in any future relationship turned sour?