5 ms·

It seems like giving criminals a free college education is the very definition of a perverse incentive.

nicolashahn 9y ago
So then maybe give everyone and inmates free college education.
pstuart 9y ago
We already have plenty of perverse incentives with prison, but on the supply side. Are you seriously suggesting that people would commit crimes to "get a free education"?
- jpm_sd 9y ago
  In some cases, people do commit crimes to get free room and board, so it's not as far-fetched as you might think.
  - NuSkooler 9y ago
    People that do that have essentially be rejected from society already -- very often largely due to lack of education and opportunity.
- tristanj 9y ago
  There are multiple cases where people commit crimes so they can get free prison medical care, so yes the incentives are out of wack.
  - bruceb 9y ago
    you can find edge cases for nearly anything. Is there any evidence more than a handful of people do this?
  - camgunz 9y ago
    The solution to this is to provide free health care outside of prison too. If someone needs something so desperately they're willing to give up their freedom to get it, the richest nation in history ought to be able to provide it for them.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- banned1 9y ago
  Are you suggesting that some people won’t?
- exolymph 9y ago
  Some people will. Some people will do any damn thing. The real question is how many and will it be a significant enough portion to matter. My guess is no.
tomswartz07 9y ago
What if, hear me out, we make basic education free for everyone, including those in prison?
- cat199 9y ago
  article makes 0 mention of this (not even one sentence); the only 'proposed delta' is prison education.. critique is fair in this context imho... which doesn't mean lowering the overall barrier to education is not a good idea and probably would reduce incarceration in the first place...
- chapium 9y ago
  Its interesting to see this argument come up on HN. How would we control the costs? If tax paid education cannot keep up with the cost of schools should we put a ceiling on professor wages? I believe that would be a horrible idea since the best talent would begin seeking greener pastures. On the other hand, should we just keep increasing taxes instead? The evil of that is a It decreases in competition for universities to be efficient. The market answers both of these issues, whereas free education does not.
  - realbarack 9y ago
    Are professor wages really a substantial factor in increasing university costs? I don't know too much about the subject but I've always attributed it to (1.) the wide availability of student loans making it easy for college tuition to rise faster than is affordable and (2.) the crazy amount of expansion/construction/etc. that universities seem to be doing constantly.
    - monocasa 9y ago
      And (3.) total college administration wages increasing. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584
- banned1 9y ago
  Agree. How much more taxes do YOU pony up? Let’s say, $10k a year. Yes?
david38 9y ago
This is why a basic level of education that you can use to make a living should be free. It used to be. You used to be able to take shop in high school. A better way of putting it should be that prisons should educate people to the level of high school or county college, something that should have been available to them but wasn't because of whatever factors. This way they get no handout not available to others and at the same time get a second chance at a life away from crime.
- zer00eyz 9y ago
  > You used to be able to take shop in high school. I don't think these sorts of jobs exist any more, or at least not in the quantity that they used to. I do think that job training (tangible, current skills) would be an appropriate replacement. My funny thought in writing this was that the only way it would happen is if we made Mike Rowe secretary of education.
airstrike 9y ago
You might be surprised to learn this, but incarceration isn't just about punishment. The idea is to rehabilitate inmates so that when they get out of prison they have skills they can employ onto something productive thus avoiding recidivism. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/us/prison-reform-north-dakota-norway/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/us/prison-reform-north-dakota...
- chongli 9y ago
  You might be surprised to learn this, but incarceration isn't just about punishment. For some people it is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase "lock him up and throw away the key." For some people, all they care about is that society provides a mechanism to obviate their need to seek retribution personally.
zbyte64 9y ago
If someone wants to do one of those victim-less crimes to goto college then why not? A person rationally looking at incentives wouldn't go out of their way to aggravate their stay at prison college.
kolpa 9y ago
"middlebrow dismissal" : https://www.google.com/search?q="middlebrow+dismissal" https://www.google.com/search?q="middlebrow+dismissal"

So then maybe give everyone and inmates free college education.

We already have plenty of perverse incentives with prison, but on the supply side. Are you seriously suggesting that people would commit crimes to "get a free education"?

jpm_sd 9y ago
In some cases, people do commit crimes to get free room and board, so it's not as far-fetched as you might think.
- NuSkooler 9y ago
  People that do that have essentially be rejected from society already -- very often largely due to lack of education and opportunity.
tristanj 9y ago
There are multiple cases where people commit crimes so they can get free prison medical care, so yes the incentives are out of wack.
- bruceb 9y ago
  you can find edge cases for nearly anything. Is there any evidence more than a handful of people do this?
- camgunz 9y ago
  The solution to this is to provide free health care outside of prison too. If someone needs something so desperately they're willing to give up their freedom to get it, the richest nation in history ought to be able to provide it for them.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
banned1 9y ago
Are you suggesting that some people won’t?
exolymph 9y ago
Some people will. Some people will do any damn thing. The real question is how many and will it be a significant enough portion to matter. My guess is no.

tomswartz07 9y ago

What if, hear me out, we make basic education free for everyone, including those in prison?

cat199 9y ago
article makes 0 mention of this (not even one sentence); the only 'proposed delta' is prison education.. critique is fair in this context imho... which doesn't mean lowering the overall barrier to education is not a good idea and probably would reduce incarceration in the first place...
chapium 9y ago
Its interesting to see this argument come up on HN. How would we control the costs? If tax paid education cannot keep up with the cost of schools should we put a ceiling on professor wages? I believe that would be a horrible idea since the best talent would begin seeking greener pastures. On the other hand, should we just keep increasing taxes instead? The evil of that is a It decreases in competition for universities to be efficient. The market answers both of these issues, whereas free education does not.
- realbarack 9y ago
  Are professor wages really a substantial factor in increasing university costs? I don't know too much about the subject but I've always attributed it to (1.) the wide availability of student loans making it easy for college tuition to rise faster than is affordable and (2.) the crazy amount of expansion/construction/etc. that universities seem to be doing constantly.
  - monocasa 9y ago
    And (3.) total college administration wages increasing. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584 https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4738584
banned1 9y ago
Agree. How much more taxes do YOU pony up? Let’s say, $10k a year. Yes?

david38 9y ago

This is why a basic level of education that you can use to make a living should be free. It used to be. You used to be able to take shop in high school. A better way of putting it should be that prisons should educate people to the level of high school or county college, something that should have been available to them but wasn't because of whatever factors. This way they get no handout not available to others and at the same time get a second chance at a life away from crime.

zer00eyz 9y ago
> You used to be able to take shop in high school. I don't think these sorts of jobs exist any more, or at least not in the quantity that they used to. I do think that job training (tangible, current skills) would be an appropriate replacement. My funny thought in writing this was that the only way it would happen is if we made Mike Rowe secretary of education.

airstrike 9y ago

You might be surprised to learn this, but incarceration isn't just about punishment. The idea is to rehabilitate inmates so that when they get out of prison they have skills they can employ onto something productive thus avoiding recidivism. https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/us/prison-reform-north-dakota-norway/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/08/us/prison-reform-north-dakota...

chongli 9y ago
You might be surprised to learn this, but incarceration isn't just about punishment. For some people it is. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase "lock him up and throw away the key." For some people, all they care about is that society provides a mechanism to obviate their need to seek retribution personally.

zbyte64 9y ago

If someone wants to do one of those victim-less crimes to goto college then why not? A person rationally looking at incentives wouldn't go out of their way to aggravate their stay at prison college.

kolpa 9y ago

"middlebrow dismissal" : https://www.google.com/search?q="middlebrow+dismissal" https://www.google.com/search?q="middlebrow+dismissal"