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> 'During their time as black market administrators, the Dutch police only banned one product on Hansa: the highly dangerous opioid Fentanyl. All other drugs on

> 'During their time as black market administrators, the Dutch police only banned one product on Hansa: the highly dangerous opioid Fentanyl. All other drugs on the site continued to flow freely, a circumstance over which Ras and Boekelo seem surprisingly unconflicted. "They would have taken place anyway," says Ras without hesitation, "but on a different market."' So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such

BoorishBears 9y ago
Or they have a similar problem that CT is facing and were focused on the human cost: https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/fil...
- geofft 9y ago
  Non-broken URL (thanks, AMP): https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg I agree with you that this sounds like a sensible strategy, and I don't understand the complaint above about career progression - to the extent that their careers were benefited by focusing on the most serious problems instead of a performative war on drugs, props to the system for enabling them to do this. People always make decisions based on career progressions, the best thing to do is set up incentives so those decisions are also good for society.
kobrad 9y ago
Or you are looking at this from an american perspective? Just guessing here. Everybody else on the planet figured out that prohibition doesn't work
- kristofferR 9y ago
  That's wrong, Asia (and large parts of Africa and Latin-America) are treating drugs more harshly than the US nowadays.
  - kolpa 9y ago
    They've a lot of catching up to do, per web-search [asia opium export]
  - SolarNet 9y ago
    Yea the poster was being hyperbolic, but the Netherlands is pretty fine with drugs for personal use. Their problems seems to be the tools the site is selling for committing other crimes (forgeries) and the larger sellers (who often have ties to other more heinous crimes).
  - golergka 9y ago
    I'd be very careful reading about how laws in asian countries work in theory (on paper) without experience of what real life enforcement looks like.
    - adventured 9y ago
      Yeah right. "Chinese Drug Dealers Are Being Sentenced to Death in Sports Stadiums and Public Squares" http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-sports-stadium-thousands-spectators-750983 http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-spor... [2015] "On Wednesday, China’s Supreme People’s Court argued that serious drug crimes merit the death penalty. Serious cases involving “drug lords, professional drug dealers or re-offenders” as well as “drug smuggling, organized transnational drug crime and armed or violent drug crime” should all receive capital sentences, according to a circular released by the SPC." https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/
      - dannyw 9y ago
        The reality of the situation is if you are connected, privileged, and drop some gifts or hush money, you won’t face a thing.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    Yet, people are still using them. Otherwise we wouldn't still hear stories about people being executed for smoking pot.
dv_dt 9y ago
The goal is likely aligned more with a different approach to management of drug use. Jumping to stopping drug trade as an immediate goal hits a lot of assumptions on what an effective policy can be.
idiot900 9y ago
Fentanyl is extremely potent - its clinically relevant doses are measured in micrograms. Appears they were concerned with reducing mortality first.
- InitialLastName 9y ago
  What? Public health-oriented drug enforcement? Who would do such a thing? \s
  - WJW 9y ago
    Surprisingly common in the Netherlands.
- etcet 9y ago
  But surely the market for Fentanyl "[took] place anyway but on a different market"? It's such a short sighted move in an otherwise well played plan.
  - wbl 9y ago
    Maybe not. No one wants fentanyl: they want diacetylmorphine, and will take fentanyl if they can't find morphine. Opiates are all the same.
    - stordoff 9y ago
      Did you meant _aren't _ all the same? They're certainly similar, and fentanyl will satisfy the cravings of those addicted to other opiates, but compared to heroin/diacetylmorphine has a shorter duration of action and reportedly less euphoric/more sedative effects.
- HarryHirsch 9y ago
  I'm asking half-seriously here: assuming the fentanyl pill guy could demonstrate Good Manufacturing Practice, i.e. dose constant and as advertised and equally distributed throughout the pill, would he be sentenced more leniently?
plussed_reader 9y ago
'Stopping drug trade' LOL
refurb 9y ago
Jesus! What a bizarre statement. Didn't he just say that regardless of what the police do, drug transactions will continue? Why they hell do you both going after them then?
setr 9y ago
It's also a lot easier to track down the whole network, and importantly, the bigger players, if you're tracking them. Shut down the site, people move to another one, and you've got to start all over again. Shutting it down is aligned with career progression (gets the big news). Leaving it running gives you some chance of affecting the actual drug trade
cpncrunch 9y ago
>So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such No, you should read the article rather than automatically assuming bad faith. "Since the takedown, Ras says, they've arrested a dozen of Hansa's top vendors, with more arrests planned for coming weeks" "While most drug vendors who fled AlphaBay showed up soon after on other dark web drug sites, those who fled Hansa didn't—or if they did, they recreated their online identities thoroughly enough to escape recognition"

BoorishBears 9y ago

Or they have a similar problem that CT is facing and were focused on the human cost: https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/fil...

geofft 9y ago
Non-broken URL (thanks, AMP): https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg I agree with you that this sounds like a sensible strategy, and I don't understand the complaint above about career progression - to the extent that their careers were benefited by focusing on the most serious problems instead of a performative war on drugs, props to the system for enabling them to do this. People always make decisions based on career progressions, the best thing to do is set up incentives so those decisions are also good for society.

kobrad 9y ago

Or you are looking at this from an american perspective? Just guessing here. Everybody else on the planet figured out that prohibition doesn't work

kristofferR 9y ago
That's wrong, Asia (and large parts of Africa and Latin-America) are treating drugs more harshly than the US nowadays.
- kolpa 9y ago
  They've a lot of catching up to do, per web-search [asia opium export]
- SolarNet 9y ago
  Yea the poster was being hyperbolic, but the Netherlands is pretty fine with drugs for personal use. Their problems seems to be the tools the site is selling for committing other crimes (forgeries) and the larger sellers (who often have ties to other more heinous crimes).
- golergka 9y ago
  I'd be very careful reading about how laws in asian countries work in theory (on paper) without experience of what real life enforcement looks like.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Yeah right. "Chinese Drug Dealers Are Being Sentenced to Death in Sports Stadiums and Public Squares" http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-sports-stadium-thousands-spectators-750983 http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-spor... [2015] "On Wednesday, China’s Supreme People’s Court argued that serious drug crimes merit the death penalty. Serious cases involving “drug lords, professional drug dealers or re-offenders” as well as “drug smuggling, organized transnational drug crime and armed or violent drug crime” should all receive capital sentences, according to a circular released by the SPC." https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/
    - dannyw 9y ago
      The reality of the situation is if you are connected, privileged, and drop some gifts or hush money, you won’t face a thing.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Yet, people are still using them. Otherwise we wouldn't still hear stories about people being executed for smoking pot.

dv_dt 9y ago

The goal is likely aligned more with a different approach to management of drug use. Jumping to stopping drug trade as an immediate goal hits a lot of assumptions on what an effective policy can be.

idiot900 9y ago

Fentanyl is extremely potent - its clinically relevant doses are measured in micrograms. Appears they were concerned with reducing mortality first.

InitialLastName 9y ago
What? Public health-oriented drug enforcement? Who would do such a thing? \s
- WJW 9y ago
  Surprisingly common in the Netherlands.
etcet 9y ago
But surely the market for Fentanyl "[took] place anyway but on a different market"? It's such a short sighted move in an otherwise well played plan.
- wbl 9y ago
  Maybe not. No one wants fentanyl: they want diacetylmorphine, and will take fentanyl if they can't find morphine. Opiates are all the same.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    Did you meant _aren't _ all the same? They're certainly similar, and fentanyl will satisfy the cravings of those addicted to other opiates, but compared to heroin/diacetylmorphine has a shorter duration of action and reportedly less euphoric/more sedative effects.
HarryHirsch 9y ago
I'm asking half-seriously here: assuming the fentanyl pill guy could demonstrate Good Manufacturing Practice, i.e. dose constant and as advertised and equally distributed throughout the pill, would he be sentenced more leniently?

plussed_reader 9y ago

'Stopping drug trade' LOL

refurb 9y ago

Jesus! What a bizarre statement. Didn't he just say that regardless of what the police do, drug transactions will continue? Why they hell do you both going after them then?

setr 9y ago

It's also a lot easier to track down the whole network, and importantly, the bigger players, if you're tracking them. Shut down the site, people move to another one, and you've got to start all over again. Shutting it down is aligned with career progression (gets the big news). Leaving it running gives you some chance of affecting the actual drug trade

cpncrunch 9y ago

>So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such No, you should read the article rather than automatically assuming bad faith. "Since the takedown, Ras says, they've arrested a dozen of Hansa's top vendors, with more arrests planned for coming weeks" "While most drug vendors who fled AlphaBay showed up soon after on other dark web drug sites, those who fled Hansa didn't—or if they did, they recreated their online identities thoroughly enough to escape recognition"