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... Taking a whole server offline, and forcing thousands of drug users to go "uh... Guess I have to use a different server now". From what I've heard, people a
by superflyguy 9y ago
... Taking a whole server offline, and forcing thousands of drug users to go "uh... Guess I have to use a different server now".
From what I've heard, people are just selling over Facebook and WhatsApp, and the police just can't be bothered with it because what are they going to do? Arrest people for buying small amounts for what is obviously personal use? Or try and track down and pin a case on someone for posting stuff. I can't see them taking Facebook down.
- xkcd-sucks 9y ago> 'During their time as black market administrators, the Dutch police only banned one product on Hansa: the highly dangerous opioid Fentanyl. All other drugs on the site continued to flow freely, a circumstance over which Ras and Boekelo seem surprisingly unconflicted. "They would have taken place anyway," says Ras without hesitation, "but on a different market."' So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such
- BoorishBears 9y agoOr they have a similar problem that CT is facing and were focused on the human cost: https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror-org.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ctmirror.org/fil...
- geofft 9y agoNon-broken URL (thanks, AMP): https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg https://ctmirror.org/files/2018/03/Overdose-chart-lead.jpg I agree with you that this sounds like a sensible strategy, and I don't understand the complaint above about career progression - to the extent that their careers were benefited by focusing on the most serious problems instead of a performative war on drugs, props to the system for enabling them to do this. People always make decisions based on career progressions, the best thing to do is set up incentives so those decisions are also good for society.
- kobrad 9y agoOr you are looking at this from an american perspective? Just guessing here. Everybody else on the planet figured out that prohibition doesn't work
- kristofferR 9y agoThat's wrong, Asia (and large parts of Africa and Latin-America) are treating drugs more harshly than the US nowadays.
- kolpa 9y agoThey've a lot of catching up to do, per web-search [asia opium export]
- SolarNet 9y agoYea the poster was being hyperbolic, but the Netherlands is pretty fine with drugs for personal use. Their problems seems to be the tools the site is selling for committing other crimes (forgeries) and the larger sellers (who often have ties to other more heinous crimes).
- golergka 9y agoI'd be very careful reading about how laws in asian countries work in theory (on paper) without experience of what real life enforcement looks like.
- adventured 9y agoYeah right. "Chinese Drug Dealers Are Being Sentenced to Death in Sports Stadiums and Public Squares" http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-sports-stadium-thousands-spectators-750983 http://www.newsweek.com/china-criminals-sentenced-death-spor... [2015] "On Wednesday, China’s Supreme People’s Court argued that serious drug crimes merit the death penalty. Serious cases involving “drug lords, professional drug dealers or re-offenders” as well as “drug smuggling, organized transnational drug crime and armed or violent drug crime” should all receive capital sentences, according to a circular released by the SPC." https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/ https://thediplomat.com/2015/05/chinas-growing-drug-problem/
- dv_dt 9y agoThe goal is likely aligned more with a different approach to management of drug use. Jumping to stopping drug trade as an immediate goal hits a lot of assumptions on what an effective policy can be.
- idiot900 9y agoFentanyl is extremely potent - its clinically relevant doses are measured in micrograms. Appears they were concerned with reducing mortality first.
- InitialLastName 9y agoWhat? Public health-oriented drug enforcement? Who would do such a thing? \s
- WJW 9y agoSurprisingly common in the Netherlands.
- etcet 9y agoBut surely the market for Fentanyl "[took] place anyway but on a different market"? It's such a short sighted move in an otherwise well played plan.
- wbl 9y agoMaybe not. No one wants fentanyl: they want diacetylmorphine, and will take fentanyl if they can't find morphine. Opiates are all the same.
- stordoff 9y agoDid you meant _aren't _ all the same? They're certainly similar, and fentanyl will satisfy the cravings of those addicted to other opiates, but compared to heroin/diacetylmorphine has a shorter duration of action and reportedly less euphoric/more sedative effects.
- HarryHirsch 9y agoI'm asking half-seriously here: assuming the fentanyl pill guy could demonstrate Good Manufacturing Practice, i.e. dose constant and as advertised and equally distributed throughout the pill, would he be sentenced more leniently?
- plussed_reader 9y ago'Stopping drug trade' LOL
- refurb 9y agoJesus! What a bizarre statement. Didn't he just say that regardless of what the police do, drug transactions will continue? Why they hell do you both going after them then?
- setr 9y agoIt's also a lot easier to track down the whole network, and importantly, the bigger players, if you're tracking them. Shut down the site, people move to another one, and you've got to start all over again. Shutting it down is aligned with career progression (gets the big news). Leaving it running gives you some chance of affecting the actual drug trade
- cpncrunch 9y ago>So, the goal is probably aligned more with career progression than stopping drug trade as such No, you should read the article rather than automatically assuming bad faith. "Since the takedown, Ras says, they've arrested a dozen of Hansa's top vendors, with more arrests planned for coming weeks" "While most drug vendors who fled AlphaBay showed up soon after on other dark web drug sites, those who fled Hansa didn't—or if they did, they recreated their online identities thoroughly enough to escape recognition"
- jimrandomh 9y agoNot all of the sales that take place on darknet markets are for personal use; some are bulk orders that will be split up for local resale. Investigating those buyers is well worth the investigative resources.
- kolpa 9y agowhy is personal use OK but selling for personal use bad?
- judge2020 9y agoPersonal use is still 'bad', but it's more efficient for police to go after resellers on the streets than all 50 individuals who bought from those resellers.
- Franciscouzo 9y agoWhy is personal use 'bad' then?
- vageli 9y agoBecause the law says it's "bad" and that's why everyone used quotes around "bad".
- tomkarlo 9y agoIt's irrelevant if it's "bad". It's illegal, which means that at least in theory, law enforcement is supposed to pursue and prosecute it, since their mandate is to enforce the laws as passed by the legislative body, etc.
- athaschangedda 9y agoUnless you're in California, in which case you pick and choose what laws you pursue and prosecute even though as a state body you fall under federal laws.
- siruncledrew 9y agoMore likely they are trying to go after the distributors rather than the users
- burger_moon 9y agoDon't forget about reddit which has also become a popular destination for drug trade. It's actually pretty surprising when you realize the same site everyone uses for funny memes and arguing about politics is also a go-to for illegal drug trade.
- tasty_freeze 9y agoThere are certainly subreddits to talk about various drugs, and subreddits that the darknet markets and how to use them, but as far as I know, there aren't subreddits for people to directly buy/sell/trade in drugs. Can you cite a subreddit where is a popular destination for drug trade?
- mhh__ 9y agoDitto, no drug related subreddit I know of doesn't explicitly ban dealing.
- nugi 9y agoI won't out any, but while the rules are there, many deals take place using very thinly veiled codewords. Craigslist, mocospace, facebook, letgo, etc all have pretty blatant drug selling in the open as well.
- mhh__ 9y agoOh definitely: A friend showed me people openly selling weed on Instagram - no PGP or anything like that.