13 ms·

After over a decade of Vim, I’m hooked on Emacs

180 points by zeveb 9y ago

beeskneecaps 9y ago
Can’t delete my comment so i’ll edit it to something different. Please ignore.
- zeveb 9y ago
  I remap Caps Lock to Control for exactly that reason. On my ideal keyboard, though, the keys immediately to the left & right of the spacebar would be Control, then Alt, then Super. On my really ideal keyboard the next key out would be Hyper, but sadly the USB spec doesn't provide for it.
  - bryanlarsen 9y ago
    No, control must be in the far left: you don't hit control with a finger, you use the meat of your hand. This only works if you have a real keyboard, not one of the imitations that come with laptops and Macs.
  - reagle 9y ago
    That's why I use Kinesis Advantage keyboards.
  - jeromenerf 9y ago
    Maybe the ideal keyboard would also not have a huge space bar, but two thumbs keys that would act as both space and a modifier if hold.
    - slobotron 9y ago
      TECK (seemingly out of production) has three keys in place of spacebar by default configured as (backspace)(enter)(space) Using thumbs to activate those works really well! https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/truly-ergonomic-mechanical-ergonomic-keyboard https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/truly-ergonomic-mechani...
  - linsomniac 9y ago
    Have you considered an Ergodox, or one of the other programmable keyboards supported by the http://qmk.fm/ http://qmk.fm/ project? I have an Ergodox Ez that I've created a custom key-map targeted towards my vim and i3-wm: left of "a" is a key that if I tap it does ESC and if I hold it does the Windows key. Right of ";" is quote/Win. "z" and "/" if I hold them become control. Among other things. It took me around 2 weeks of un-learning some bad habits I had, to become really proficient at the Ergodox. Some of it was that I used to hit the "b" with my right hand but Ergodox only has it on the left. A large part was that I was borrowing a friend's keyboard with blank keycaps and though I was a touch typist, I would regularly look at the keyboard to "get my bearings". Plus, I always looked to do numeric entry. Plus, moving keys around for enter/space/backspace/tab took some getting used to. If you think "my ideal keyboard would", Qmk firmware plus one of the dozens of supported keyboards may just get you there.
  - raihansaputra 9y ago
    As another commenter said, QMK is the gateway. If you really want a lot of thumb buttons, look at an xd75, atomic/planck if you are not afraid of having many layers, or mitosis if you are feeling experimental. The customisation is off the charts. I have space and arrow layers in one key, and enter and number layer in another.
- hashkb 9y ago
  evil-mode? Spacemacs? Nvim is pretty awesome, but the tools in the vim ecosystem just don't compare.
- jrs95 9y ago
  People who downvote comments like this are humorless assholes. Every time someone makes a joke you don’t need to downvote it for fucks sake.
- emirozer 9y ago
  Never understood the emacs pinky thing to be honest. From like week 1, years ago, i realized i have to have the C- modifier in a better place.. You just remap caps-lock to ctrl and you are done.
  - marrone12 9y ago
    Am I the only guy whose pinky doesn't get bothered reaching to control?
learc83 9y ago
Vim has been a bit of a mixed blessing for me. I rarely actually use vim, but I use the keybindings everywhere. It's great because I can fairly comfortably move between most editors because most editors have a vim mode. The downside is that most editors don't have a complete vim mode, so it's never 100%.
- linkmotif 9y ago
  Exactly this is what I was thinking when I concurrently left kind of the same comment but with a lot less clarity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16552613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16552613. I am stuck in vi mode everywhere, but different flavors. And yet I like it a lot. (The latest version of JetBrains' vi mode with zero latency is great!)
- strkek 9y ago
  Bonus points for using vim mode on browser editors like CodeMirror or ACE, and then trying to delete a word via <C-w>.
  - ben509 9y ago
    I have 'command' on the mac mapped to meta, sometimes I try to delete a word or reflow a paragraph...
  - gkya 9y ago
    Add to that using C-q often in Emacs to insert literal characters when using sth. like quail, and then forgetting you're in a text area and not in Emacs and hitting C-q. Fortunately Firefox restores the content of the text area...
- Sean1708 9y ago
  Ah see what really bugs me is that most vim modes do try to be a complete vim mode (and the fact that they never succeed just adds insult to injury), they always try to be a vim emulator instead of providing vim-like keybindings that make sense in the context of the editor. I do appreciate that I'm very much in the minority here though.
linkmotif 9y ago
No mention of evil, which is always my first question when I consider trying Emacs: how will I get past not having vi bindings?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
arnoooooo 9y ago
I used Vim for 15 years, then switched to Emacs+Evil. Vim is the best interface, Emacs the best platform. Emacs+Evil combines both.
- swagtricker 9y ago
  Addresses that old joke: Emacs is a great operating system, but it lacks a good editor; like Vi :)
- ben509 9y ago
  Haha, I used vim for a few years before switching to emacs. My brain just does not work modally. Still miss the dot though.
  - gowld 9y ago
    ummm https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Modes.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mo...
    - grzm 9y ago
      I believe this is a different sense of mode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi#Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi#Interface
    - fao_ 9y ago
      Vi is modal in a different way to EMACS. EMACS is not a modal text editor.
alexpetralia 9y ago
Surprised to see no mention of spacemacs[1] so far - you get the evil keybindings with the helm user interface. [1] http://spacemacs.org/ http://spacemacs.org/
- lilactown 9y ago
  I tried out Emacs when I started learning Clojure (through Clojure for the Brave and True[0]) and didn't find it at all usable. Remembering the various chords was at best obnoxious and at worst, a huge productivity loss. It felt like it would take weeks or months before I was even close to productive. Later, I tried picking it up again, but this time chose spacemacs. Hoooly crap, what a difference. 1. Discoverability. The helm UI is better than any docs, since it's there when and where I need it to find the thing. It also provides the ability to search for arbitrary commands, which is great when you're learning a new mode or layer. 2. Modal editing. I wasn't a vim user before, but spacemacs has converted me over to the modal editing camp. It makes a ton of sense now and is a joy to use alongside Emacs' power. 3. The layer system is way easier to use than ELPA directly and takes most of the pain of configuring packages away. For someone who wanted the power of Emacs without having to touch the insides, spacemacs is wonderful and has fully converted me over to using it everyday! [0]: https://www.braveclojure.com/ https://www.braveclojure.com/
  - pasabagi 9y ago
    What actually is the power of emacs? I just ask because with vim, I can easily describe why I like it - it has about a billion cool and useful text-editing features arranged in a way that makes them easy to use. I understand Spacemacs replicates basically all of these features - but what's emacs adding to this? I've tried spacemacs several times, and each time I've been stopped by not really being able to find anything, aside from org-mode, there's nothing there that justifies the (relatively) slow loading times and generally heavier overhead of emacs.
    - lilactown 9y ago
      Great question. For me, Emacs ended up taking the place of a number of tools I use daily: 1. Text editing (obviously). spacemacs provides nearly any nifty trick that vim would give you for text editing (and like I said, I'm a believer in the way of modal editing). 2. HTTP client. Emacs has a package called "restclient" that allows you to write what amount to cURL commands - in plain text, with documentation - and execute them in-line within my editor. Other teams I've been on use Postman, which is great, but I like the fact that I can save the file and commit it alongside our services/tests/etc. 3. Note taking & task lists. Org-mode is Emacs killer app. Honestly, I'm still pretty fresh to this whole "being organized" thing. But already I'm finding myself writing more and more notes, TODOs, etc. and it's really helping me on a new project that is complete chaos right now. 4. Clojure IDE. Cursive for IntelliJ comes close, but nothing beats the experience of doing Clojure development in Emacs. Since my team adopted it as our daily workhorse language, I've never had a moment where I wanted to leave Emacs. It's integration with the REPL and LISP in general makes it the most powerful programming environment I've used to date (YMMV). There might be more... the point is that Emacs is more like an application platform than a text editor, and it has some really powerful applications that have been developed for years. I now have this strange urge to do more and more inside of Emacs, if only because it gives me a common interface into my workflow. EDIT: Forgot, magit for doing git operations. Great interface and I only (very very rarely) need to drop down to terminal to do things now.
BeetleB 9y ago
>But, critically, automatically embedded in that note is a link back to what I was doing when I pressed C-c c. That's neat. How do I do this? My setup is almost a decade old.
oldgun 9y ago
I see emacs I upvote :)
- oldgun 9y ago
  Actually got -4 points for this comment. Apparently you shouldn't take any side in an HN flame war.
  - jwilk 9y ago
    From the HN guidelines: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
    - jrs95 9y ago
      Although the parent comment didn't really seem to be a literal comment about voting. That's what the ":)" was intended to indicate. It was just a general, friendly pro-Emacs comment. Downvoting everything that isn't super serious makes for pretty boring reading too. The first comment on this post, something along the lines of "My pinky hurts just reading this" was actually pretty funny. It was removed because it was immediately heavily downvoted. Seriously, aren't your day jobs stressful enough? Do you have to be that uptight? I don't remember HN being like this a year or two ago.
- asdffdsa321 9y ago
  Heathen :) (have an upvote)
ben509 9y ago
I've been using emacs for years, and I certainly did the whole "oh wow use emacs for everything" bit. Over time, I've pulled back and don't use many plugins outside of helm and flycheck. I can not for the life of me understand the appeal of org-mode. It's probably just me, because most other organizers don't work for me, but if you're going to do a file-based organizer, it seems like you want a way to easily pull stuff out of old files so your working set isn't spread out all over the place.
- mjhoy 9y ago
  > it seems like you want a way to easily pull stuff out of old files so your working set isn't spread out all over the place. Hmm. What do you mean exactly? I have all sorts of stuff in my org mode files, and what keeps track of them for me is the agenda view (i.e. it finds TODOs, deadlines, events, etc).
  - gkya 9y ago
    I've learned agenda views quite late, it's one of the killer features of org mode. Until then I mostly used org for notes and latex export. Maybe the manuals should emphasise it a bit more, it might be hard to discover.
- brandonmenc 9y ago
  > I can not for the life of me understand the appeal of org-mode. I used emacs for nearly two decades, and I agree. I tried - so hard - to get into org-mode, but just couldn't do it. I'd use it religiously for a week or two, and then the inertia was just too high. Or maybe I really didn't need all the features. Who knows. Saying you "don't get" org-mode is blasphemy in the church of emacs, so I just assumed something was wrong with me and kept my mouth shut, and used it as a very simple todo list. I would, however, use org-mode if I were say, working on a PhD or doing long-term public research where keeping everything in an open format was essential.
  - Myrmornis 9y ago
    I stopped using org-mode when I moved from academia to work as a programmer so that fits with what you say.
dmix 9y ago
I recently tried giving Emacs another shot, as it was my first love, with Spacemacs and it was terribly slow. I couldn't believe how long it took to boot up and how choppy it was compared to SpaceVim. Having started with emacs to use with LISP/Clojure I ended up with Vim because it's just felt lighter and the key layout more logical. And much of the plugins were comparable or superior, with the exception of LISP languages.
- farresito 9y ago
  Your last sentence is interesting. As a vim user, I've always regarded emacs as having a much better ecosystem. The only plugins that I've found superior in vim are those related to text editing (for example, new operators).
Aloha 9y ago
I guess I'm all alone over here with my love of nano - yes, its not as powerful as emacs (or even vi) - but it works well enough for what I need a text editor for.
- cup-of-tea 9y ago
  What do you need a text editor for?
  - JustSomeNobody 9y ago
    Exactly! Just 'cat' everything to the file. Have a mistake? Up arrow and edit.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    editing config files, writing shell scripts, editing some web stuff - nothing complex.
- tombert 9y ago
  I had a coworker (who I greatly respect as an engineer) whose main "IDE" was GNU Screen and Nano, which he used primarily for PHP and JS development. I wanted to make fun of him, but his code was generally better than me, despite me using Vim, so I had to keep it to myself.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    This is basically my environment - everyone keeps trying to convince me to use tmux - but I look at it, and for my use case, it includes no additional features, and I'd need to relearn keyboard shortcuts.
    - tombert 9y ago
      I would think you could relatively easily remap the tmux shortcuts to Screen ones, if that's the only blocker.
platz 9y ago
emacs is nice when you want an editor that has modest/ecent support for a variety of languages. Sometimes you can get a better experience with a flagship language ide, but if you use a lot of different langs or 'botique' langs then emacs is a good common denominator
bocklund 9y ago
I did the same thing and stuck with it for a year. In the last couple months I decided that I needed to stop tweaking every last thing and wasting so much time and compromise by using the tools that allow me to be the most productive. I dropped my highly customized emacs for Omni Focus (org-mode), Mail.app (mu4e), SublimeText (general emacs, org-mode), Mendeley (org-ref, helm), MS Word (LaTeX-mode). I never stopped using PowerPoint because it’s the standard in science and the couple times I tried Beamer (directly and through org-export) were a nightmare for having multiple figures per slide. I also sometimes use Excel now, though Python is still more often the better tool. I have not found a good personal knowledge base; right now I am using Evernote. I have several collaborations and projects. Keeping my tasks organized needed to be easier than org. Working with other people in formats that will make them happy to work with me was also critical. Even with things like Overleaf and ShareLaTeX, it is too hard to collaborate with others. Giving up plain text formats and version control are challenges.
- cup-of-tea 9y ago
  Wow, I just can't imagine how anyone could do that. Some of those tools I can understand but MS Word? Powerpoint? I use org-mode and I make exports for nontechnical people. I use org-mode and Pandoc to make MS Word files which does everything I would ever want to do. Org-mode and ox-reveal (using reveal.js) is great for slides. I would say just use whatever works for you, but it makes me sad that I can convert my things to your format but you can't convert your things to mine.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - globuous 9y ago
    Ok, so cooooolest thing ever with org mode I found out the other day is that you can refer table cell results from your paragraphs: #+CAPTION: Constants #+NAME: tab_constants | Constant | Value | |---------------------------+-------| | A | 1 | | B | 90 | | C | 90 | | D | 12 | | *Total* | 240. | #+TBLFM: @6$2=@2 * @5 / ((@3 + @4) / 60 / 60) We come to the conclusion that with src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[2,1]]{d} VR rig constantly busy for src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[5,1]]{d} hours. Resulting in src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[6,1]]{d} people going through the experience. And with this, whenever I change the constants in my table, my whole document updates. I find that insane. No more having to update numbers everywhere in the document everytime I change an input in my tables. Then you can just export to anything (I do org->html->princexml->pdf for easy CSS styling, but you can do org->latex->pdf beem). I've also been giving it a try for brainstorming code and todos on side projects. Here's an example, it started by being pseudo code for some code, then basic python (because it was so close to my pseudo code, then I started implementing elisp in TDD inside my ord-mode doc. So it evolved like that: notes->pseudo code->tdd in the same doc: * Flow.el TODOs ** DONE projectile-find-type-file CLOSED: [2018-03-07 Wed 22:12] ... *** Check buffer file ends with test #+begin_src emacs-lisp (defun get-styles-file () ...) ;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Tests ;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;; (get-styles-file) ; /..path../notesStyles.org #+end_src #+RESULTS: : /home/thomas/config/spacemacs/flow/notesStyles.org What's really cool about orgmode rather than MS word is that it's text, so easily portable and gitable. You get powerful track changes for your documents.
Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
It sounds like he never wanted vim to begin with. He wanted an IDE, which vim isn't. Vim is your editor and Unix is your IDE. Effective vim does not start with a lot of plugins IMO. If you expect more than an editor from vim, you have come to the wrong place.
- cup-of-tea 9y ago
  > Vim is your editor and Unix is your IDE. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that. It has instantly changed the way I think about vim and now I understand the "emacs is an OS" thing fully. Having said that I do happily use both Unix and emacs and think they both have their place.
  - chongli 9y ago
    If you take this philosophy to its limit, you can derive a ton of productivity with just plain vi (or nvi) and Unix tools. I use neovim nowadays but I always feel the draw of the purity and temperance of plain vi.
- tombert 9y ago
  I think that's kind of elegant, and helps validate my preferred environment of `tmux` + `nvim`
- saltcured 9y ago
  That's funny because I think of emacs the same way... it is my editor and Unix is my IDE. The only "modes" I use in emacs are different syntax-highlighting and the occasional visual buffer-compare to unsnarl a particularly awful merge conflict. In spite of being a Lisp and Scheme programmer back in the day, I have never had an urge to extend emacs with anything. I think it simply has the right UX for me. It possibly goes all the way back to me using Wordstar on CP/M as a child, which had a similar buffer-focused UX with control keys to temporarily do some non-text entry. I also nearly always use emacs in X windows mode with multiple "frames" (separate X windows) opened into the same set of buffers and rely on the mouse-driven menus to find less frequent options and commands that I don't keep in my muscle memory. I can get by in non-X mode over SSH but feel crippled, much like I do when vim is the only option on a system. Then, I'll just get in and out quickly to make small changes, preferring to navigate around via the shell/grep/less etc. while I plan my attack on a file.
tombert 9y ago
I used to use pure Emacs, but switched full-time to Vim keystrokes after I got stuck for the billionth time trying to figure out the "undo direction". After a certain point, I realized that I really just needed Vim, since I never really used any of the features in Emacs except the text editor. Now I mostly just use NeoVim, and with its async support and a lot of the plugins for it becoming excellent, I really have no desire to go back to Emacs...except that I keep hearing about org-mode. One of these days I might go and try out one of the several plugins for Vim that try to tack-on org-mode, but as it stands I've gotten my NeoVim configuration so customized it would take quite awhile to actually replicate in Emacs.
desireco42 9y ago
You would think that anyone used to Vim would have problem with Emacs as they can't keep up with speed of us issuing commands :)?
alexnewman 9y ago
I'm bi as well. I prefer using both. I still code in c in vim. C++ always in emacs.
- throwaway84742 9y ago
  Let me guess: you are not aware of YouCompleteMe.
cup-of-tea 9y ago
I began to force myself to learn vim but I never got over that initial hump and there was nothign really to draw me in. I can't remember why I began to look into emacs but org-mode drew me right in. I discovered magit at around the same time and I begun what I can only describe as a love affair with emacs that continues to this day. I just can't imagine a life where I use computers without emacs.
- hashkb 9y ago
  https://vim-adventures.com/ https://vim-adventures.com/ it's fun if you're wanting a little evil(-mode) in your life.
  - cup-of-tea 9y ago
    I did that! I still remember navigation keys and some other things to this day. A little vim is essential for working on Linux when I can't install emacs.
draw_down 9y ago
I hate messing around with editors and tweaking every last thing (or any software tool for that matter). Seeing if I can configure this new editor so that I like it 7% better than another one. I just want to use it without thinking too much and have it stay out of my way.
erikb 9y ago
Yes, the good ol' org-mode. I also consider it the core killer feature of emacs. However I found it doesn't match into all my processes. A text editor you can drop into different kinds of work processes. But a whole engine that uses formatted files as data storage is different. With emacs and org-mode the whole thinking is inside emacs. that's fine if you want to use it for everything. But if you just want to use org-mode and drop it into different contexts it fails. It's still great tho, no criticism intended.
EddieSpeaks 9y ago
Can we all make a conscious move towards modern editors please? Why are we stuck on barely intuitive editors from the 60s? Can we make a push so that all modern *nix deployments come with a newbie friendly editor?
richard_todd 9y ago
My resistance to putting my life in Emacs these days is that half my time is spent on mobile devices. I know org-mode exports a variety of formats, but how easy is it to interact with my todo list or add notes from my phone? If popular services all had APIs I could see hooking Emacs into them, but they just don’t in general. I read the posts so far from this article, and was hoping to see the mobile angle addressed.
- rmorey 9y ago
  If you use Android, I can highly recommend Orgzly (www.orgzly.com)
- bigd 9y ago
  Beorg for iOS solved this problem for me.
chaoticmass 9y ago
I've wanted to learn emacs for a long time, but every time I try it I get overwhelmed after 5 minutes, close it and swear to try again later. One of these days... * edit-- not that it looks all that hard, just the sheer amount of things to learn makes it daunting.
- kleiba 9y ago
  Overwhelmed with what exactly? (long time Emacs user here, just curious)
  - chaoticmass 9y ago
    I start with something I want to do, say, change the color scheme, enable syntax highlighting for a programming language, or something like that and then I end up tumbling down a rabbit hole, and I get stuck because most of the resources out there that tell me how to do these things assume I know a lot of basics which I haven't mastered yet.
    - kleiba 9y ago
      In that case, I think you might be better off with more of a minimalism approach: don't try to configure everything and anything from the get go but add features incrementally only when you really think they're necessary. After many years of using Emacs every day, I decided at one point to throw away my .emacs file and start from scratch. You know, it's a little bit like the old saying about how you should code every program you write twice: once to learn how to do it, and then a second time to get it right. I had been using Emacs for a while but especially when I first started out, I was maybe as overwhelmed as what you describe. And so I probably did too much, tried out too many things. But hey, that's how you learn, right? After many years, I had acquired much more proficiency, found out by experience which things are essential and which packages that I had installed I actually didn't really need. And so I made a completely new, empty .emacs file and manually added only a minimal number of configuration options (carefully avoiding copying anything over from my previous .emacs file -- the temptation would be too great to put more than I needed). Of course since then I have added more and more stuff over time, but I still strive for keeping my .emacs file small. It's not so much an irrational ideal as it is an attempt at keeping it manageable. And so sometimes when I open my .emacs file for some new option or whatever, I use the opportunity to also go over the file and reconsider its current state. More often than not, I end up throwing a whole bunch of stuff away again and make the file smaller and simpler. A lot of features that Emacs offers through various packages are convenience features. They're great. But they're not essential. Essential is stuff like `(blink-cursor-mode 0)` (I would go nuts otherwise) or `(global-set-key (kbd "C-w") 'backward-kill-word-or-region)` which has become muscle memory to me. Themes and other visual goodies are less important.
calebm 9y ago
I really like the idea of Emacs/org-mode for everything, but my perception is that image support and mobile support aren't very good (compared to, say, Evernote). A pictures is worth a thousand words, so having pictures as part of my notes is crucial.
- tincholio 9y ago
  Image support in org buffers is pretty good, not sure what's the situation in mobile (I use orgzly, which AFAIK doesn't support images). If you want previews for URLs and such, I think you'll be better off with Evernote (though you could probably automate the screencap + linking when doing captures, if you're into that)
xkjkls 9y ago
This thread has been a revelation to me because I honestly thought "users of Emacs" were a myth like Big Foot
d13 9y ago
Have you tried VS Code?
davidw 9y ago
I have been using Emacs for 20 years, and still discover cool new things every now and then.
JoshMnem 9y ago
I still use Vim (neovim) but switched my notetaking to Org Mode + Evil. It's great, especially capture templates and the export features.
ksk 9y ago
I like toys as much as the next nerd, but how do people see the perceived value of such tools? Personally, I am relatively unconvinced about the advantages of tools like emacs or vim over anything "regular" people use. IMHO Tools should be evaluated by the results they produce, and so are we seeing anything amazing from the users of these tools versus people who just use a notepad or whatever other generic system?
- piracykills 9y ago
  I too would like a clear answer to this, I've made numerous attempts to learn vim and emacs and can find my way around in both, but I never broke my habit of the old school CUA keybindings and arrow keys so always found myself gravitating back, especially when more full fledged IDEs and such were an option. ReSharper C++ is a major time-saver on a daily basis for me and I have a hard time thinking that would be easily replaced.
  - singingboyo 9y ago
    Whether there's an advantage that'll sell you on putting the time in, I don't know, but JetBrains' IDEs are my goto alternative to vim when I'm either stuck using Windows or need more IDE features for whatever language I'm working in. The vim bindings are probably the best I've used - there's still some mismatch, but for editing at least it works great. So, if you ever feel the need to try it, CLion (which I would assume is on par with ReSharper C++) in vim mode may be a good option.
  - pasabagi 9y ago
    I think Vim for me is solely in the 'fun' category. I mean, actual text editing is a pretty small portion of the time I spend on programming - thinking, reading, and debugging are much more significant for me. That said, I think that a well-set up version of vim is probably the most fun anybody can have while editing text. I actually enjoy doing finnicky and tricky textual tasks. You feel like a wizard literally every day. That's worth something for me. I actually picked it up because I wanted a new natural-language text editor, and I figured vim would probably still exist in 20 years, and I don't like learning new things. It's been an unmitigated blessing in this role - and it's also pretty nice for programming, if a little bit more annoying to set up.
mbreese 9y ago
When my new job added Slack to the mix, that was finally the last straw. And later... So I found myself switching from Thunderbird and mairix+mutt (for the mail archives) to mu4e, and from xchat+slack to ERC. If being able to use Slack from Emacs was the main point of this, he is going to be very sad in a few weeks. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254
- draebek 9y ago
  FWIW apparently emacs-slack uses Slack's API rather than the IRC gateway, so it will actually stay working (for now), or so I've read: https://github.com/yuya373/emacs-slack https://github.com/yuya373/emacs-slack
blunte 9y ago
I like both, but I still absolutely love two features of vi: - hjkl movement keys (which depends on multi modes) - . (dot) to repeat the last command But honestly, there are so many fantastically useful features of vi that it's hard to give up. I learned Emacs because of Clojure, and I got reasonably proficient with it. Thanks to Emacs, I now am much more efficient in editor boxes and terminals because of ctrl-p and other movement keys, as well as jump to begin/end of line, etc. But vi is preinstalled in more places (even if it's a weak minimal installation), so it will get used rather than me installing emacs on some system I only need to be on for five minutes. Vi also seems more performant. I haven't attempted to measure, but it sure feels like it has lower latency than Emacs.
zerr 9y ago
Interestingly, vim got the second place (after Visual Studio) in a recent C++ developer survey: https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/03/results-summary-cpp-foundation-developer-survey-lite-2018-02 https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/03/results-summary-cpp-foundati... I wonder what's the go-to setup for C++ development in vim.
- systems 9y ago
  Many developer, especially on linux, only ask for syntax highlight They use linux command line tools as the development environment Personally, i find working without intellisense or intelligent auto-completion very hard, but it seems many developers don't find this as important as i do
  - karma_fountain 9y ago
    I did c++ in vim for a while, the movement in vim made it an excellent experience. I found the lack of intellisense made it annoying at first, but it force me to read the docs for the API or library I was using, which lead to much greater knowledge and probably a better implementation.
  - camgunz 9y ago
    Yeah I find intellisense/autocomplete really changes the way I design things. Without a tool like this, I spend a lot more time designing obvious, guessable, simple interfaces. With intellisense I'm not as concerned with that and I'll have much larger interfaces. I'm not saying one is better than the other (a lot of smaller, guessable interfaces might be more overhead than a few larger interfaces) but I do prefer my code w/o intellisense.
  - smellf 9y ago
    At work and play I use only vim to write C++, Python, Javascript, bash and web frontend stuff. Only plugin is rainbow parentheses. Manpages and web for docs. My system is very flexible and I wouldn't have it any other way.
    - 9y ago
blackrock 9y ago
To be honest, Emacs never worked for me. It added too much complexity, for too little gain. M-w, to do a copy. Or some other hobgoblin that I need to remember, when all I need is just a browse-able menu. I just need the shortcuts, for when I repetitively do an action, multiple times in a row, where it's quicker to just hit the keys, instead of using a menu. Maybe it was cutting edge in the 1990s, but then computers got much faster, with more memory. And the graphical IDEs like Visual Studio, and Eclipse, blew it out of the water. Today, when I'm coding in Python, then I just use an editor like Notepad++. I get enough syntax highlighting hints from that to avoid obvious coding errors. Most of the time, I'm on Windows. I secure shell into the Linux server, and open the file from there. Then it saves back to the server. Then I run my code on a shell. This setup works pretty well. If I need to review the code while on the shell, then I just open it in Vi. Or just open it in Windows.
- jwdunne 9y ago
  Well that doesn't copy. That closes Emacs. No wonder you're having trouble! Use M-w. You can do what you need using Emacs. Instead of context menus, you search for a less used command using M-x. It helps if you have ido-mode or helm. The latter, in my opinion, makes it a beautiful experience. I tried moving over to JetBrains IDEs. It was too painful. I can see its value in a language where it can write most of the code for you. Otherwise, Emacs all the way.
  - blackrock 9y ago
    Are you purposely being dense?
    - jwdunne 9y ago
      Oh I see what you did there. Nice try squirt. C-x C-c closes Emacs. I mean M-w and C-x C-c are so damn close together it's unfortunate you might mix them up, right? That sort of crafty edit-a-roo is mighty frowned upon in most circles. And to be so rude! Now that, sir, is crossing the line. I guess if I'm really dense, I can't purposefully be dense, can I?
- 9y ago
kreetx 9y ago
In short, org-mode was the gateway drug for me, and since I don't have any religious feelings towards any editor I found it easier to switch entirely, rather than keep using vim for code. Although emacs is my main editor I still use vim and try to keep the memory of keybindings alive.
kazinator 9y ago
After 18 years of Common Lisp, and nine years of developing a Lisp implementation ... ... I'm 24 years into using Vim and counting!

180 points by zeveb 9y ago

beeskneecaps 9y ago

Can’t delete my comment so i’ll edit it to something different. Please ignore.

zeveb 9y ago
I remap Caps Lock to Control for exactly that reason. On my ideal keyboard, though, the keys immediately to the left & right of the spacebar would be Control, then Alt, then Super. On my really ideal keyboard the next key out would be Hyper, but sadly the USB spec doesn't provide for it.
- bryanlarsen 9y ago
  No, control must be in the far left: you don't hit control with a finger, you use the meat of your hand. This only works if you have a real keyboard, not one of the imitations that come with laptops and Macs.
- reagle 9y ago
  That's why I use Kinesis Advantage keyboards.
- jeromenerf 9y ago
  Maybe the ideal keyboard would also not have a huge space bar, but two thumbs keys that would act as both space and a modifier if hold.
  - slobotron 9y ago
    TECK (seemingly out of production) has three keys in place of spacebar by default configured as (backspace)(enter)(space) Using thumbs to activate those works really well! https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/truly-ergonomic-mechanical-ergonomic-keyboard https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/truly-ergonomic-mechani...
- linsomniac 9y ago
  Have you considered an Ergodox, or one of the other programmable keyboards supported by the http://qmk.fm/ http://qmk.fm/ project? I have an Ergodox Ez that I've created a custom key-map targeted towards my vim and i3-wm: left of "a" is a key that if I tap it does ESC and if I hold it does the Windows key. Right of ";" is quote/Win. "z" and "/" if I hold them become control. Among other things. It took me around 2 weeks of un-learning some bad habits I had, to become really proficient at the Ergodox. Some of it was that I used to hit the "b" with my right hand but Ergodox only has it on the left. A large part was that I was borrowing a friend's keyboard with blank keycaps and though I was a touch typist, I would regularly look at the keyboard to "get my bearings". Plus, I always looked to do numeric entry. Plus, moving keys around for enter/space/backspace/tab took some getting used to. If you think "my ideal keyboard would", Qmk firmware plus one of the dozens of supported keyboards may just get you there.
- raihansaputra 9y ago
  As another commenter said, QMK is the gateway. If you really want a lot of thumb buttons, look at an xd75, atomic/planck if you are not afraid of having many layers, or mitosis if you are feeling experimental. The customisation is off the charts. I have space and arrow layers in one key, and enter and number layer in another.
hashkb 9y ago
evil-mode? Spacemacs? Nvim is pretty awesome, but the tools in the vim ecosystem just don't compare.
jrs95 9y ago
People who downvote comments like this are humorless assholes. Every time someone makes a joke you don’t need to downvote it for fucks sake.
emirozer 9y ago
Never understood the emacs pinky thing to be honest. From like week 1, years ago, i realized i have to have the C- modifier in a better place.. You just remap caps-lock to ctrl and you are done.
- marrone12 9y ago
  Am I the only guy whose pinky doesn't get bothered reaching to control?

learc83 9y ago

Vim has been a bit of a mixed blessing for me. I rarely actually use vim, but I use the keybindings everywhere. It's great because I can fairly comfortably move between most editors because most editors have a vim mode. The downside is that most editors don't have a complete vim mode, so it's never 100%.

linkmotif 9y ago
Exactly this is what I was thinking when I concurrently left kind of the same comment but with a lot less clarity: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16552613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16552613. I am stuck in vi mode everywhere, but different flavors. And yet I like it a lot. (The latest version of JetBrains' vi mode with zero latency is great!)
strkek 9y ago
Bonus points for using vim mode on browser editors like CodeMirror or ACE, and then trying to delete a word via <C-w>.
- ben509 9y ago
  I have 'command' on the mac mapped to meta, sometimes I try to delete a word or reflow a paragraph...
- gkya 9y ago
  Add to that using C-q often in Emacs to insert literal characters when using sth. like quail, and then forgetting you're in a text area and not in Emacs and hitting C-q. Fortunately Firefox restores the content of the text area...
Sean1708 9y ago
Ah see what really bugs me is that most vim modes do try to be a complete vim mode (and the fact that they never succeed just adds insult to injury), they always try to be a vim emulator instead of providing vim-like keybindings that make sense in the context of the editor. I do appreciate that I'm very much in the minority here though.

linkmotif 9y ago

No mention of evil, which is always my first question when I consider trying Emacs: how will I get past not having vi bindings?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

arnoooooo 9y ago

I used Vim for 15 years, then switched to Emacs+Evil. Vim is the best interface, Emacs the best platform. Emacs+Evil combines both.

swagtricker 9y ago
Addresses that old joke: Emacs is a great operating system, but it lacks a good editor; like Vi :)
ben509 9y ago
Haha, I used vim for a few years before switching to emacs. My brain just does not work modally. Still miss the dot though.
- gowld 9y ago
  ummm https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Modes.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Mo...
  - grzm 9y ago
    I believe this is a different sense of mode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi#Interface https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi#Interface
  - fao_ 9y ago
    Vi is modal in a different way to EMACS. EMACS is not a modal text editor.

alexpetralia 9y ago

Surprised to see no mention of spacemacs[1] so far - you get the evil keybindings with the helm user interface. [1] http://spacemacs.org/ http://spacemacs.org/

lilactown 9y ago
I tried out Emacs when I started learning Clojure (through Clojure for the Brave and True[0]) and didn't find it at all usable. Remembering the various chords was at best obnoxious and at worst, a huge productivity loss. It felt like it would take weeks or months before I was even close to productive. Later, I tried picking it up again, but this time chose spacemacs. Hoooly crap, what a difference. 1. Discoverability. The helm UI is better than any docs, since it's there when and where I need it to find the thing. It also provides the ability to search for arbitrary commands, which is great when you're learning a new mode or layer. 2. Modal editing. I wasn't a vim user before, but spacemacs has converted me over to the modal editing camp. It makes a ton of sense now and is a joy to use alongside Emacs' power. 3. The layer system is way easier to use than ELPA directly and takes most of the pain of configuring packages away. For someone who wanted the power of Emacs without having to touch the insides, spacemacs is wonderful and has fully converted me over to using it everyday! [0]: https://www.braveclojure.com/ https://www.braveclojure.com/
- pasabagi 9y ago
  What actually is the power of emacs? I just ask because with vim, I can easily describe why I like it - it has about a billion cool and useful text-editing features arranged in a way that makes them easy to use. I understand Spacemacs replicates basically all of these features - but what's emacs adding to this? I've tried spacemacs several times, and each time I've been stopped by not really being able to find anything, aside from org-mode, there's nothing there that justifies the (relatively) slow loading times and generally heavier overhead of emacs.
  - lilactown 9y ago
    Great question. For me, Emacs ended up taking the place of a number of tools I use daily: 1. Text editing (obviously). spacemacs provides nearly any nifty trick that vim would give you for text editing (and like I said, I'm a believer in the way of modal editing). 2. HTTP client. Emacs has a package called "restclient" that allows you to write what amount to cURL commands - in plain text, with documentation - and execute them in-line within my editor. Other teams I've been on use Postman, which is great, but I like the fact that I can save the file and commit it alongside our services/tests/etc. 3. Note taking & task lists. Org-mode is Emacs killer app. Honestly, I'm still pretty fresh to this whole "being organized" thing. But already I'm finding myself writing more and more notes, TODOs, etc. and it's really helping me on a new project that is complete chaos right now. 4. Clojure IDE. Cursive for IntelliJ comes close, but nothing beats the experience of doing Clojure development in Emacs. Since my team adopted it as our daily workhorse language, I've never had a moment where I wanted to leave Emacs. It's integration with the REPL and LISP in general makes it the most powerful programming environment I've used to date (YMMV). There might be more... the point is that Emacs is more like an application platform than a text editor, and it has some really powerful applications that have been developed for years. I now have this strange urge to do more and more inside of Emacs, if only because it gives me a common interface into my workflow. EDIT: Forgot, magit for doing git operations. Great interface and I only (very very rarely) need to drop down to terminal to do things now.

BeetleB 9y ago

>But, critically, automatically embedded in that note is a link back to what I was doing when I pressed C-c c. That's neat. How do I do this? My setup is almost a decade old.

oldgun 9y ago

I see emacs I upvote :)

oldgun 9y ago
Actually got -4 points for this comment. Apparently you shouldn't take any side in an HN flame war.
- jwilk 9y ago
  From the HN guidelines: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
  - jrs95 9y ago
    Although the parent comment didn't really seem to be a literal comment about voting. That's what the ":)" was intended to indicate. It was just a general, friendly pro-Emacs comment. Downvoting everything that isn't super serious makes for pretty boring reading too. The first comment on this post, something along the lines of "My pinky hurts just reading this" was actually pretty funny. It was removed because it was immediately heavily downvoted. Seriously, aren't your day jobs stressful enough? Do you have to be that uptight? I don't remember HN being like this a year or two ago.
asdffdsa321 9y ago
Heathen :) (have an upvote)

ben509 9y ago

I've been using emacs for years, and I certainly did the whole "oh wow use emacs for everything" bit. Over time, I've pulled back and don't use many plugins outside of helm and flycheck. I can not for the life of me understand the appeal of org-mode. It's probably just me, because most other organizers don't work for me, but if you're going to do a file-based organizer, it seems like you want a way to easily pull stuff out of old files so your working set isn't spread out all over the place.

mjhoy 9y ago
> it seems like you want a way to easily pull stuff out of old files so your working set isn't spread out all over the place. Hmm. What do you mean exactly? I have all sorts of stuff in my org mode files, and what keeps track of them for me is the agenda view (i.e. it finds TODOs, deadlines, events, etc).
- gkya 9y ago
  I've learned agenda views quite late, it's one of the killer features of org mode. Until then I mostly used org for notes and latex export. Maybe the manuals should emphasise it a bit more, it might be hard to discover.
brandonmenc 9y ago
> I can not for the life of me understand the appeal of org-mode. I used emacs for nearly two decades, and I agree. I tried - so hard - to get into org-mode, but just couldn't do it. I'd use it religiously for a week or two, and then the inertia was just too high. Or maybe I really didn't need all the features. Who knows. Saying you "don't get" org-mode is blasphemy in the church of emacs, so I just assumed something was wrong with me and kept my mouth shut, and used it as a very simple todo list. I would, however, use org-mode if I were say, working on a PhD or doing long-term public research where keeping everything in an open format was essential.
- Myrmornis 9y ago
  I stopped using org-mode when I moved from academia to work as a programmer so that fits with what you say.

dmix 9y ago

I recently tried giving Emacs another shot, as it was my first love, with Spacemacs and it was terribly slow. I couldn't believe how long it took to boot up and how choppy it was compared to SpaceVim. Having started with emacs to use with LISP/Clojure I ended up with Vim because it's just felt lighter and the key layout more logical. And much of the plugins were comparable or superior, with the exception of LISP languages.

farresito 9y ago
Your last sentence is interesting. As a vim user, I've always regarded emacs as having a much better ecosystem. The only plugins that I've found superior in vim are those related to text editing (for example, new operators).

Aloha 9y ago

I guess I'm all alone over here with my love of nano - yes, its not as powerful as emacs (or even vi) - but it works well enough for what I need a text editor for.

cup-of-tea 9y ago
What do you need a text editor for?
- JustSomeNobody 9y ago
  Exactly! Just 'cat' everything to the file. Have a mistake? Up arrow and edit.
- Aloha 9y ago
  editing config files, writing shell scripts, editing some web stuff - nothing complex.
tombert 9y ago
I had a coworker (who I greatly respect as an engineer) whose main "IDE" was GNU Screen and Nano, which he used primarily for PHP and JS development. I wanted to make fun of him, but his code was generally better than me, despite me using Vim, so I had to keep it to myself.
- Aloha 9y ago
  This is basically my environment - everyone keeps trying to convince me to use tmux - but I look at it, and for my use case, it includes no additional features, and I'd need to relearn keyboard shortcuts.
  - tombert 9y ago
    I would think you could relatively easily remap the tmux shortcuts to Screen ones, if that's the only blocker.

platz 9y ago

emacs is nice when you want an editor that has modest/ecent support for a variety of languages. Sometimes you can get a better experience with a flagship language ide, but if you use a lot of different langs or 'botique' langs then emacs is a good common denominator

bocklund 9y ago

I did the same thing and stuck with it for a year. In the last couple months I decided that I needed to stop tweaking every last thing and wasting so much time and compromise by using the tools that allow me to be the most productive. I dropped my highly customized emacs for Omni Focus (org-mode), Mail.app (mu4e), SublimeText (general emacs, org-mode), Mendeley (org-ref, helm), MS Word (LaTeX-mode). I never stopped using PowerPoint because it’s the standard in science and the couple times I tried Beamer (directly and through org-export) were a nightmare for having multiple figures per slide. I also sometimes use Excel now, though Python is still more often the better tool. I have not found a good personal knowledge base; right now I am using Evernote. I have several collaborations and projects. Keeping my tasks organized needed to be easier than org. Working with other people in formats that will make them happy to work with me was also critical. Even with things like Overleaf and ShareLaTeX, it is too hard to collaborate with others. Giving up plain text formats and version control are challenges.

cup-of-tea 9y ago
Wow, I just can't imagine how anyone could do that. Some of those tools I can understand but MS Word? Powerpoint? I use org-mode and I make exports for nontechnical people. I use org-mode and Pandoc to make MS Word files which does everything I would ever want to do. Org-mode and ox-reveal (using reveal.js) is great for slides. I would say just use whatever works for you, but it makes me sad that I can convert my things to your format but you can't convert your things to mine.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- globuous 9y ago
  Ok, so cooooolest thing ever with org mode I found out the other day is that you can refer table cell results from your paragraphs: #+CAPTION: Constants #+NAME: tab_constants | Constant | Value | |---------------------------+-------| | A | 1 | | B | 90 | | C | 90 | | D | 12 | | *Total* | 240. | #+TBLFM: @6$2=@2 * @5 / ((@3 + @4) / 60 / 60) We come to the conclusion that with src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[2,1]]{d} VR rig constantly busy for src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[5,1]]{d} hours. Resulting in src_emacs-lisp[:var d=tab_constants[6,1]]{d} people going through the experience. And with this, whenever I change the constants in my table, my whole document updates. I find that insane. No more having to update numbers everywhere in the document everytime I change an input in my tables. Then you can just export to anything (I do org->html->princexml->pdf for easy CSS styling, but you can do org->latex->pdf beem). I've also been giving it a try for brainstorming code and todos on side projects. Here's an example, it started by being pseudo code for some code, then basic python (because it was so close to my pseudo code, then I started implementing elisp in TDD inside my ord-mode doc. So it evolved like that: notes->pseudo code->tdd in the same doc: * Flow.el TODOs ** DONE projectile-find-type-file CLOSED: [2018-03-07 Wed 22:12] ... *** Check buffer file ends with test #+begin_src emacs-lisp (defun get-styles-file () ...) ;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;; Tests ;;; ;;;;;;;;;;;;; (get-styles-file) ; /..path../notesStyles.org #+end_src #+RESULTS: : /home/thomas/config/spacemacs/flow/notesStyles.org What's really cool about orgmode rather than MS word is that it's text, so easily portable and gitable. You get powerful track changes for your documents.

Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago

It sounds like he never wanted vim to begin with. He wanted an IDE, which vim isn't. Vim is your editor and Unix is your IDE. Effective vim does not start with a lot of plugins IMO. If you expect more than an editor from vim, you have come to the wrong place.

cup-of-tea 9y ago
> Vim is your editor and Unix is your IDE. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that. It has instantly changed the way I think about vim and now I understand the "emacs is an OS" thing fully. Having said that I do happily use both Unix and emacs and think they both have their place.
- chongli 9y ago
  If you take this philosophy to its limit, you can derive a ton of productivity with just plain vi (or nvi) and Unix tools. I use neovim nowadays but I always feel the draw of the purity and temperance of plain vi.
tombert 9y ago
I think that's kind of elegant, and helps validate my preferred environment of `tmux` + `nvim`
saltcured 9y ago
That's funny because I think of emacs the same way... it is my editor and Unix is my IDE. The only "modes" I use in emacs are different syntax-highlighting and the occasional visual buffer-compare to unsnarl a particularly awful merge conflict. In spite of being a Lisp and Scheme programmer back in the day, I have never had an urge to extend emacs with anything. I think it simply has the right UX for me. It possibly goes all the way back to me using Wordstar on CP/M as a child, which had a similar buffer-focused UX with control keys to temporarily do some non-text entry. I also nearly always use emacs in X windows mode with multiple "frames" (separate X windows) opened into the same set of buffers and rely on the mouse-driven menus to find less frequent options and commands that I don't keep in my muscle memory. I can get by in non-X mode over SSH but feel crippled, much like I do when vim is the only option on a system. Then, I'll just get in and out quickly to make small changes, preferring to navigate around via the shell/grep/less etc. while I plan my attack on a file.

tombert 9y ago

I used to use pure Emacs, but switched full-time to Vim keystrokes after I got stuck for the billionth time trying to figure out the "undo direction". After a certain point, I realized that I really just needed Vim, since I never really used any of the features in Emacs except the text editor. Now I mostly just use NeoVim, and with its async support and a lot of the plugins for it becoming excellent, I really have no desire to go back to Emacs...except that I keep hearing about org-mode. One of these days I might go and try out one of the several plugins for Vim that try to tack-on org-mode, but as it stands I've gotten my NeoVim configuration so customized it would take quite awhile to actually replicate in Emacs.

desireco42 9y ago

You would think that anyone used to Vim would have problem with Emacs as they can't keep up with speed of us issuing commands :)?

alexnewman 9y ago

I'm bi as well. I prefer using both. I still code in c in vim. C++ always in emacs.

throwaway84742 9y ago
Let me guess: you are not aware of YouCompleteMe.

cup-of-tea 9y ago

I began to force myself to learn vim but I never got over that initial hump and there was nothign really to draw me in. I can't remember why I began to look into emacs but org-mode drew me right in. I discovered magit at around the same time and I begun what I can only describe as a love affair with emacs that continues to this day. I just can't imagine a life where I use computers without emacs.

hashkb 9y ago
https://vim-adventures.com/ https://vim-adventures.com/ it's fun if you're wanting a little evil(-mode) in your life.
- cup-of-tea 9y ago
  I did that! I still remember navigation keys and some other things to this day. A little vim is essential for working on Linux when I can't install emacs.

draw_down 9y ago

I hate messing around with editors and tweaking every last thing (or any software tool for that matter). Seeing if I can configure this new editor so that I like it 7% better than another one. I just want to use it without thinking too much and have it stay out of my way.

erikb 9y ago

Yes, the good ol' org-mode. I also consider it the core killer feature of emacs. However I found it doesn't match into all my processes. A text editor you can drop into different kinds of work processes. But a whole engine that uses formatted files as data storage is different. With emacs and org-mode the whole thinking is inside emacs. that's fine if you want to use it for everything. But if you just want to use org-mode and drop it into different contexts it fails. It's still great tho, no criticism intended.

EddieSpeaks 9y ago

Can we all make a conscious move towards modern editors please? Why are we stuck on barely intuitive editors from the 60s? Can we make a push so that all modern *nix deployments come with a newbie friendly editor?

richard_todd 9y ago

My resistance to putting my life in Emacs these days is that half my time is spent on mobile devices. I know org-mode exports a variety of formats, but how easy is it to interact with my todo list or add notes from my phone? If popular services all had APIs I could see hooking Emacs into them, but they just don’t in general. I read the posts so far from this article, and was hoping to see the mobile angle addressed.

rmorey 9y ago
If you use Android, I can highly recommend Orgzly (www.orgzly.com)
bigd 9y ago
Beorg for iOS solved this problem for me.

chaoticmass 9y ago

I've wanted to learn emacs for a long time, but every time I try it I get overwhelmed after 5 minutes, close it and swear to try again later. One of these days... * edit-- not that it looks all that hard, just the sheer amount of things to learn makes it daunting.

kleiba 9y ago
Overwhelmed with what exactly? (long time Emacs user here, just curious)
- chaoticmass 9y ago
  I start with something I want to do, say, change the color scheme, enable syntax highlighting for a programming language, or something like that and then I end up tumbling down a rabbit hole, and I get stuck because most of the resources out there that tell me how to do these things assume I know a lot of basics which I haven't mastered yet.
  - kleiba 9y ago
    In that case, I think you might be better off with more of a minimalism approach: don't try to configure everything and anything from the get go but add features incrementally only when you really think they're necessary. After many years of using Emacs every day, I decided at one point to throw away my .emacs file and start from scratch. You know, it's a little bit like the old saying about how you should code every program you write twice: once to learn how to do it, and then a second time to get it right. I had been using Emacs for a while but especially when I first started out, I was maybe as overwhelmed as what you describe. And so I probably did too much, tried out too many things. But hey, that's how you learn, right? After many years, I had acquired much more proficiency, found out by experience which things are essential and which packages that I had installed I actually didn't really need. And so I made a completely new, empty .emacs file and manually added only a minimal number of configuration options (carefully avoiding copying anything over from my previous .emacs file -- the temptation would be too great to put more than I needed). Of course since then I have added more and more stuff over time, but I still strive for keeping my .emacs file small. It's not so much an irrational ideal as it is an attempt at keeping it manageable. And so sometimes when I open my .emacs file for some new option or whatever, I use the opportunity to also go over the file and reconsider its current state. More often than not, I end up throwing a whole bunch of stuff away again and make the file smaller and simpler. A lot of features that Emacs offers through various packages are convenience features. They're great. But they're not essential. Essential is stuff like `(blink-cursor-mode 0)` (I would go nuts otherwise) or `(global-set-key (kbd "C-w") 'backward-kill-word-or-region)` which has become muscle memory to me. Themes and other visual goodies are less important.

calebm 9y ago

I really like the idea of Emacs/org-mode for everything, but my perception is that image support and mobile support aren't very good (compared to, say, Evernote). A pictures is worth a thousand words, so having pictures as part of my notes is crucial.

tincholio 9y ago
Image support in org buffers is pretty good, not sure what's the situation in mobile (I use orgzly, which AFAIK doesn't support images). If you want previews for URLs and such, I think you'll be better off with Evernote (though you could probably automate the screencap + linking when doing captures, if you're into that)

xkjkls 9y ago

This thread has been a revelation to me because I honestly thought "users of Emacs" were a myth like Big Foot

d13 9y ago

Have you tried VS Code?

davidw 9y ago

I have been using Emacs for 20 years, and still discover cool new things every now and then.

JoshMnem 9y ago

I still use Vim (neovim) but switched my notetaking to Org Mode + Evil. It's great, especially capture templates and the export features.

ksk 9y ago

I like toys as much as the next nerd, but how do people see the perceived value of such tools? Personally, I am relatively unconvinced about the advantages of tools like emacs or vim over anything "regular" people use. IMHO Tools should be evaluated by the results they produce, and so are we seeing anything amazing from the users of these tools versus people who just use a notepad or whatever other generic system?

piracykills 9y ago
I too would like a clear answer to this, I've made numerous attempts to learn vim and emacs and can find my way around in both, but I never broke my habit of the old school CUA keybindings and arrow keys so always found myself gravitating back, especially when more full fledged IDEs and such were an option. ReSharper C++ is a major time-saver on a daily basis for me and I have a hard time thinking that would be easily replaced.
- singingboyo 9y ago
  Whether there's an advantage that'll sell you on putting the time in, I don't know, but JetBrains' IDEs are my goto alternative to vim when I'm either stuck using Windows or need more IDE features for whatever language I'm working in. The vim bindings are probably the best I've used - there's still some mismatch, but for editing at least it works great. So, if you ever feel the need to try it, CLion (which I would assume is on par with ReSharper C++) in vim mode may be a good option.
- pasabagi 9y ago
  I think Vim for me is solely in the 'fun' category. I mean, actual text editing is a pretty small portion of the time I spend on programming - thinking, reading, and debugging are much more significant for me. That said, I think that a well-set up version of vim is probably the most fun anybody can have while editing text. I actually enjoy doing finnicky and tricky textual tasks. You feel like a wizard literally every day. That's worth something for me. I actually picked it up because I wanted a new natural-language text editor, and I figured vim would probably still exist in 20 years, and I don't like learning new things. It's been an unmitigated blessing in this role - and it's also pretty nice for programming, if a little bit more annoying to set up.

mbreese 9y ago

When my new job added Slack to the mix, that was finally the last straw. And later... So I found myself switching from Thunderbird and mairix+mutt (for the mail archives) to mu4e, and from xchat+slack to ERC. If being able to use Slack from Emacs was the main point of this, he is going to be very sad in a few weeks. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16536254

draebek 9y ago
FWIW apparently emacs-slack uses Slack's API rather than the IRC gateway, so it will actually stay working (for now), or so I've read: https://github.com/yuya373/emacs-slack https://github.com/yuya373/emacs-slack

blunte 9y ago

I like both, but I still absolutely love two features of vi: - hjkl movement keys (which depends on multi modes) - . (dot) to repeat the last command But honestly, there are so many fantastically useful features of vi that it's hard to give up. I learned Emacs because of Clojure, and I got reasonably proficient with it. Thanks to Emacs, I now am much more efficient in editor boxes and terminals because of ctrl-p and other movement keys, as well as jump to begin/end of line, etc. But vi is preinstalled in more places (even if it's a weak minimal installation), so it will get used rather than me installing emacs on some system I only need to be on for five minutes. Vi also seems more performant. I haven't attempted to measure, but it sure feels like it has lower latency than Emacs.

zerr 9y ago

Interestingly, vim got the second place (after Visual Studio) in a recent C++ developer survey: https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/03/results-summary-cpp-foundation-developer-survey-lite-2018-02 https://isocpp.org/blog/2018/03/results-summary-cpp-foundati... I wonder what's the go-to setup for C++ development in vim.

systems 9y ago
Many developer, especially on linux, only ask for syntax highlight They use linux command line tools as the development environment Personally, i find working without intellisense or intelligent auto-completion very hard, but it seems many developers don't find this as important as i do
- karma_fountain 9y ago
  I did c++ in vim for a while, the movement in vim made it an excellent experience. I found the lack of intellisense made it annoying at first, but it force me to read the docs for the API or library I was using, which lead to much greater knowledge and probably a better implementation.
- camgunz 9y ago
  Yeah I find intellisense/autocomplete really changes the way I design things. Without a tool like this, I spend a lot more time designing obvious, guessable, simple interfaces. With intellisense I'm not as concerned with that and I'll have much larger interfaces. I'm not saying one is better than the other (a lot of smaller, guessable interfaces might be more overhead than a few larger interfaces) but I do prefer my code w/o intellisense.
- smellf 9y ago
  At work and play I use only vim to write C++, Python, Javascript, bash and web frontend stuff. Only plugin is rainbow parentheses. Manpages and web for docs. My system is very flexible and I wouldn't have it any other way.
  - 9y ago

blackrock 9y ago

To be honest, Emacs never worked for me. It added too much complexity, for too little gain. M-w, to do a copy. Or some other hobgoblin that I need to remember, when all I need is just a browse-able menu. I just need the shortcuts, for when I repetitively do an action, multiple times in a row, where it's quicker to just hit the keys, instead of using a menu. Maybe it was cutting edge in the 1990s, but then computers got much faster, with more memory. And the graphical IDEs like Visual Studio, and Eclipse, blew it out of the water. Today, when I'm coding in Python, then I just use an editor like Notepad++. I get enough syntax highlighting hints from that to avoid obvious coding errors. Most of the time, I'm on Windows. I secure shell into the Linux server, and open the file from there. Then it saves back to the server. Then I run my code on a shell. This setup works pretty well. If I need to review the code while on the shell, then I just open it in Vi. Or just open it in Windows.

jwdunne 9y ago
Well that doesn't copy. That closes Emacs. No wonder you're having trouble! Use M-w. You can do what you need using Emacs. Instead of context menus, you search for a less used command using M-x. It helps if you have ido-mode or helm. The latter, in my opinion, makes it a beautiful experience. I tried moving over to JetBrains IDEs. It was too painful. I can see its value in a language where it can write most of the code for you. Otherwise, Emacs all the way.
- blackrock 9y ago
  Are you purposely being dense?
  - jwdunne 9y ago
    Oh I see what you did there. Nice try squirt. C-x C-c closes Emacs. I mean M-w and C-x C-c are so damn close together it's unfortunate you might mix them up, right? That sort of crafty edit-a-roo is mighty frowned upon in most circles. And to be so rude! Now that, sir, is crossing the line. I guess if I'm really dense, I can't purposefully be dense, can I?
9y ago

kreetx 9y ago

In short, org-mode was the gateway drug for me, and since I don't have any religious feelings towards any editor I found it easier to switch entirely, rather than keep using vim for code. Although emacs is my main editor I still use vim and try to keep the memory of keybindings alive.

kazinator 9y ago

After 18 years of Common Lisp, and nine years of developing a Lisp implementation ... ... I'm 24 years into using Vim and counting!