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Cryptocurrency, welcome to AI's long nightmare. AI has forever had buzzword-complaint terms. Consider "Agent", which describes a very specific thing (namely a

Cryptocurrency, welcome to AI's long nightmare. AI has forever had buzzword-complaint terms. Consider "Agent", which describes a very specific thing (namely autonomy), but that didn't stop everyone and their dog outside the field from calling their software a "database agent" or a "compiler agent" or whatnot, equating "agent" with "program". Indeed there's an entire non-AI field called "Agent Based Modeling" -- of which I am a participant -- which completely misunderstands the term. So AI gave up and switched to "Intelligent Agent", which was unfortunately an even more buzzword-compliant word. Now we started seeing "intelligent graphics agent" or "intelligent login page agent". Finally in the late '90s AI moved to "Autonomous Agent", a word straight from the Department of Redundancy Department. But it worked! Nobody outside of AI seems to use it: my theory is that most people don't really know exactly what autonomous means.

nixpulvis 9y ago
And just as AI is being overused to solve problems, so too is the "blockchain", inevitably making users lives worse in the long run.
- kbwt 9y ago
  > AI is being overused double-checks URL bar to make sure he is still on HN Downvote me all you want but I think the tech sector is currently suffering a veritable Machine Learning craze.
  - madenine 9y ago
    Give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that last bit was sarcasm?
camillomiller 9y ago
I mean... "crypto" !!! Can you imagine what cryptographers had to witness every day for a couple of years now, while the term was increasingly skewing towards a completely misleading meaning?
- nailer 9y ago
  It's like if people involved in: - ATMs - eCommerce - Foreign intelligence and signals or any other similar field where crypto is essential started calling themselves 'crypto'. Yes, these field use crypto, but no, they're not crypto. Just like cryptocurrencies aren't crypto. This is crytpo: https://cr.yp.to https://cr.yp.to This is crypto: https://crypto.stackexchange.com/ https://crypto.stackexchange.com/. Things that use crypto are not crypto.
  - bdamm 9y ago
    The meaning of words change when the rest of humanity takes it for their own. Claiming "crypto are not crypto" will just leave you behind as the guy with his fist in the air cursing the world. Nuclear. Hacker. Patriot. Rubber. The audience matters. Besides, I doubt that any cryptanalyst would mind writing out cryptography any more than they'd mind writing out TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256.
    - nailer 9y ago
      I'm stating crypto is cryptography. There's not multiple cryptographies as far as I'm aware so 'crypto are' doesn't make sense. And yes, words change over time, but in that case I can just refer to (all) cryptocurrency as 'Bitcoin' since that's the common definition. In fact it's far more popular to refer to cryptocurrency as Bitcoin than it is to call that 'crypto'. Short version: this one isn't settled yet. How did nuclear, patriot and rubber change?
      - owlninja 9y ago
        >this one isn't settled yet I feel like it almost is. Now even the non-technical crowd is amped up for cryptocurrency, and could really not care less about cryptography.
      - godzillabrennus 9y ago
        Judging from the mad rush into investing in “cryptos” I disagree that this isn’t settled. You just may not like how it settled.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
AI has had more than one winter, you know.
- aje403 9y ago
  Yes, he's probably aware, but hopefully we're not coming to one. Machine learning was a lot less useful in the 1980s. There's still a lot of amazing (and unfortunate) uses for machine learning for government and business left to be plucked. The only thing that is going to die for now is any trace of the idea from non-technicals is that if we throw $10mm at it, it's going to come alive.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Big hype cycles typically have lower low point as well as higher high points. I don't know if another AI winter is around the corner, I hope not, but it is definitely a possibility. I am much more pessimistic about blockchains.
    - aje403 9y ago
      There won't be because it still actually is useful governments and businesses. They can tangibly use it to increase their functioning/profits - that was not the case during the AI winter. Computers sucked, data sucked, and there was no internet. I hope you're right in that the attention it is getting decreases. A reasonable limit of what we can actually do with what we currently have is probably within the next 15 years. Having 50 deep learning moocs that teach introductory matrix multiplication isn't really benefitting much either. Hopefully things come to a better equilibrium soon. I'm very pessimistic about blockchains but I'm not sure if they're going away or not, either. Regardless of regulation, there's a lot of people screaming about blockchains and that doesn't seem to be changing: “I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.”
kgwgk 9y ago
Your comment sounds as if you thought that AI researchers had invented the term “agent”.
- SeanLuke 9y ago
  They didn't? Next you'll be telling me the word dates from Middle English. :-)
ouid 9y ago
AI even has this problem among it's researchers. What the fuck is a neural network?
- wuliwong 9y ago
  I was also curious about the use of 'neural networks' in deep learning or whatever. My PhD research was working on problems in computational neuroscience. I think the use of "neural networks" is because the topology of these deep learning networks is similar to what is observed in biological brains.
  - mayank 9y ago
    Brain networks and neural networks are not similar in structure or function, other than the superficial abstraction of “nodes and connections” (graphs). They’re about as related as genetic algorithms are to actual genetics.
    - aje403 9y ago
      Which is what he's saying, the use of the term is because of the extremely-vague-homeomorphism implied by the structure Unfortunately, the word choice can lead to "they've gots em a neural networks and an AI singularities and them robots coming to take over"
      - Maybestring 9y ago
        >extremely-vague-homeomorphism Analogy is the concept in its full generality.
        aje403 9y ago
        If only. Analogy is more like the bastardization of an Ideal Form
        Maybestring 9y ago
firmgently 9y ago
I'd guess it's the other way around. 'Autonomous' is an unusual enough word that you remember what it means (especially once you understand the 'auto' prefix), or look it up because it's strange. 'Agent' is so familiar though that I can imagine lots of people don't attach its literal meaning to it in the sense of 'having agency'. Popular uses are things like 'secret agent', 'cleaning agent'... "probably means like, 'person', or 'thing' or something".
geezerjay 9y ago
> Consider "Agent", which describes a very specific thing (namely autonomy), but that didn't stop everyone and their dog outside the field from calling their software a "database agent" or a "compiler agent" or whatnot, equating "agent" with "program". Actually, the only problem illustrated in your complaint is that you are unaware of the meaning of the word "agent". https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/agent https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/agent Considering how the definition of "agent" is "A person or thing that takes an active role or produces a specified effect", it is quite clear that an agent isn't a program, but programs (or modules or components) are quite obviouly agents. In fact, each and every entity in a sequence diagram is an agent.
- SeanLuke 9y ago
  > you are unaware of the meaning of the word "agent". Imagine that! Could it be possible that as a native English speaker, I am entirely unaware that "agent" means something different in general English usage? :-) Look, AI has a specific coined usage of the term. The outer computer science mis-usage is not derived from the traditional English meanings of agent at all, but rather is very intentionally derived from the AI usage to take advantage of its buzz. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between coinage and intentional misappropriation.

nixpulvis 9y ago

And just as AI is being overused to solve problems, so too is the "blockchain", inevitably making users lives worse in the long run.

kbwt 9y ago
> AI is being overused double-checks URL bar to make sure he is still on HN Downvote me all you want but I think the tech sector is currently suffering a veritable Machine Learning craze.
- madenine 9y ago
  Give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that last bit was sarcasm?

camillomiller 9y ago

I mean... "crypto" !!! Can you imagine what cryptographers had to witness every day for a couple of years now, while the term was increasingly skewing towards a completely misleading meaning?

nailer 9y ago
It's like if people involved in: - ATMs - eCommerce - Foreign intelligence and signals or any other similar field where crypto is essential started calling themselves 'crypto'. Yes, these field use crypto, but no, they're not crypto. Just like cryptocurrencies aren't crypto. This is crytpo: https://cr.yp.to https://cr.yp.to This is crypto: https://crypto.stackexchange.com/ https://crypto.stackexchange.com/. Things that use crypto are not crypto.
- bdamm 9y ago
  The meaning of words change when the rest of humanity takes it for their own. Claiming "crypto are not crypto" will just leave you behind as the guy with his fist in the air cursing the world. Nuclear. Hacker. Patriot. Rubber. The audience matters. Besides, I doubt that any cryptanalyst would mind writing out cryptography any more than they'd mind writing out TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256.
  - nailer 9y ago
    I'm stating crypto is cryptography. There's not multiple cryptographies as far as I'm aware so 'crypto are' doesn't make sense. And yes, words change over time, but in that case I can just refer to (all) cryptocurrency as 'Bitcoin' since that's the common definition. In fact it's far more popular to refer to cryptocurrency as Bitcoin than it is to call that 'crypto'. Short version: this one isn't settled yet. How did nuclear, patriot and rubber change?
    - owlninja 9y ago
      >this one isn't settled yet I feel like it almost is. Now even the non-technical crowd is amped up for cryptocurrency, and could really not care less about cryptography.
    - godzillabrennus 9y ago
      Judging from the mad rush into investing in “cryptos” I disagree that this isn’t settled. You just may not like how it settled.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

AI has had more than one winter, you know.

aje403 9y ago
Yes, he's probably aware, but hopefully we're not coming to one. Machine learning was a lot less useful in the 1980s. There's still a lot of amazing (and unfortunate) uses for machine learning for government and business left to be plucked. The only thing that is going to die for now is any trace of the idea from non-technicals is that if we throw $10mm at it, it's going to come alive.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Big hype cycles typically have lower low point as well as higher high points. I don't know if another AI winter is around the corner, I hope not, but it is definitely a possibility. I am much more pessimistic about blockchains.
  - aje403 9y ago
    There won't be because it still actually is useful governments and businesses. They can tangibly use it to increase their functioning/profits - that was not the case during the AI winter. Computers sucked, data sucked, and there was no internet. I hope you're right in that the attention it is getting decreases. A reasonable limit of what we can actually do with what we currently have is probably within the next 15 years. Having 50 deep learning moocs that teach introductory matrix multiplication isn't really benefitting much either. Hopefully things come to a better equilibrium soon. I'm very pessimistic about blockchains but I'm not sure if they're going away or not, either. Regardless of regulation, there's a lot of people screaming about blockchains and that doesn't seem to be changing: “I believe what really happens in history is this: the old man is always wrong; and the young people are always wrong about what is wrong with him. The practical form it takes is this: that, while the old man may stand by some stupid custom, the young man always attacks it with some theory that turns out to be equally stupid.”

kgwgk 9y ago

Your comment sounds as if you thought that AI researchers had invented the term “agent”.

SeanLuke 9y ago
They didn't? Next you'll be telling me the word dates from Middle English. :-)

ouid 9y ago

AI even has this problem among it's researchers. What the fuck is a neural network?

wuliwong 9y ago
I was also curious about the use of 'neural networks' in deep learning or whatever. My PhD research was working on problems in computational neuroscience. I think the use of "neural networks" is because the topology of these deep learning networks is similar to what is observed in biological brains.
- mayank 9y ago
  Brain networks and neural networks are not similar in structure or function, other than the superficial abstraction of “nodes and connections” (graphs). They’re about as related as genetic algorithms are to actual genetics.
  - aje403 9y ago
    Which is what he's saying, the use of the term is because of the extremely-vague-homeomorphism implied by the structure Unfortunately, the word choice can lead to "they've gots em a neural networks and an AI singularities and them robots coming to take over"
    - Maybestring 9y ago
      >extremely-vague-homeomorphism Analogy is the concept in its full generality.
      - aje403 9y ago
        If only. Analogy is more like the bastardization of an Ideal Form
        Maybestring 9y ago

firmgently 9y ago

I'd guess it's the other way around. 'Autonomous' is an unusual enough word that you remember what it means (especially once you understand the 'auto' prefix), or look it up because it's strange. 'Agent' is so familiar though that I can imagine lots of people don't attach its literal meaning to it in the sense of 'having agency'. Popular uses are things like 'secret agent', 'cleaning agent'... "probably means like, 'person', or 'thing' or something".

geezerjay 9y ago

> Consider "Agent", which describes a very specific thing (namely autonomy), but that didn't stop everyone and their dog outside the field from calling their software a "database agent" or a "compiler agent" or whatnot, equating "agent" with "program". Actually, the only problem illustrated in your complaint is that you are unaware of the meaning of the word "agent". https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/agent https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/agent Considering how the definition of "agent" is "A person or thing that takes an active role or produces a specified effect", it is quite clear that an agent isn't a program, but programs (or modules or components) are quite obviouly agents. In fact, each and every entity in a sequence diagram is an agent.

SeanLuke 9y ago
> you are unaware of the meaning of the word "agent". Imagine that! Could it be possible that as a native English speaker, I am entirely unaware that "agent" means something different in general English usage? :-) Look, AI has a specific coined usage of the term. The outer computer science mis-usage is not derived from the traditional English meanings of agent at all, but rather is very intentionally derived from the AI usage to take advantage of its buzz. I'm sure you can appreciate the difference between coinage and intentional misappropriation.