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Manhattan should probably just admit that it's going to become the Venice of America: a playground for tourists and the ultra-rich, with virtually no residents.

Manhattan should probably just admit that it's going to become the Venice of America: a playground for tourists and the ultra-rich, with virtually no residents. There's nothing wrong with that. They can tax the hell out of it and use it to fund services in the rest of the city where real people live.

aluhut 9y ago
...moving "the rest of the city" further out step by step.
CPLX 9y ago
> virtually no residents Seeing as how there are 1.6 million of those now that would be quite a turn of events.
- ForHackernews 9y ago
  I didn't say it would happen overnight. That real estate is apparently more valuable as hotels and vacant investment properties than it is as housing stock. New York should embrace and exploit the fact that billionaires will pay high property taxes on empty condos, not try to fight it.
  - del82 9y ago
    Alas, the billionaires pay almost no property taxes on those condos: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont-pay-property-taxes-in-new-york/389886/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont...
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    In 2011 there were 34000 homes in Manhattan that were absentee owned or rented. That's a lot, but not in comparison with the size of the city. Also, the population in Manhattan has been going up since 1980, so it can simultaneously be true that there are more people living here and more vacant investment properties and hotel rooms. I doubt we're in any danger of Manhattan emptying out in the next few hundred years from anything other than a nuclear attack or climate change.
ironjunkie 9y ago
Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.
- louisswiss 9y ago
  Hotel Tonight app has 10+ hotels for under $160/night (for tonight) - that's with just a casual scroll...
  - ghaff 9y ago
    And add about 25% in taxes to that. Plus I can assure you that barring unusual circumstances cheap hotels (and $200 isn't exactly "cheap" in my book) in Manhattan are probably best avoided. Mind you, in my experience as a business traveler, hotel prices in San Francisco are often higher than Manhattan in any case.
    - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
      I just stayed in a Fairfield Inn & Suites on 58th last month for 4 nights (including Friday / Saturday) at $590 total ($147.50 per night). It wasn't luxury by any means, but it was perfectly nice. Also, the taxes were $90 of that, so 15%, not 25%.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        Fair enough. This is probably sort of an off-season (to the degree there is such a thing) for Manhattan and I tend to stay in somewhat more expensive hotels. (And there are a lot of real fleabags at the lower end but I wouldn't expect a Marriott brand to be one.) Of course it varies depending upon what's going on in a given week, but I find it's harder to get a "deal" in SF, among other cities.
        louisswiss 9y ago
chasing 9y ago
Have you spent any time in Manhattan? It’s more than just Midtown. And the whole idea is smart growth that keeps cities accessible to everyone. So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever.
- ForHackernews 9y ago
  > So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever. Why not? Because you like living there?

aluhut 9y ago

...moving "the rest of the city" further out step by step.

CPLX 9y ago

> virtually no residents Seeing as how there are 1.6 million of those now that would be quite a turn of events.

ForHackernews 9y ago
I didn't say it would happen overnight. That real estate is apparently more valuable as hotels and vacant investment properties than it is as housing stock. New York should embrace and exploit the fact that billionaires will pay high property taxes on empty condos, not try to fight it.
- del82 9y ago
  Alas, the billionaires pay almost no property taxes on those condos: https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont-pay-property-taxes-in-new-york/389886/ https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/05/why-billionaires-dont...
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  In 2011 there were 34000 homes in Manhattan that were absentee owned or rented. That's a lot, but not in comparison with the size of the city. Also, the population in Manhattan has been going up since 1980, so it can simultaneously be true that there are more people living here and more vacant investment properties and hotel rooms. I doubt we're in any danger of Manhattan emptying out in the next few hundred years from anything other than a nuclear attack or climate change.

ironjunkie 9y ago

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

louisswiss 9y ago
Hotel Tonight app has 10+ hotels for under $160/night (for tonight) - that's with just a casual scroll...
- ghaff 9y ago
  And add about 25% in taxes to that. Plus I can assure you that barring unusual circumstances cheap hotels (and $200 isn't exactly "cheap" in my book) in Manhattan are probably best avoided. Mind you, in my experience as a business traveler, hotel prices in San Francisco are often higher than Manhattan in any case.
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    I just stayed in a Fairfield Inn & Suites on 58th last month for 4 nights (including Friday / Saturday) at $590 total ($147.50 per night). It wasn't luxury by any means, but it was perfectly nice. Also, the taxes were $90 of that, so 15%, not 25%.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      Fair enough. This is probably sort of an off-season (to the degree there is such a thing) for Manhattan and I tend to stay in somewhat more expensive hotels. (And there are a lot of real fleabags at the lower end but I wouldn't expect a Marriott brand to be one.) Of course it varies depending upon what's going on in a given week, but I find it's harder to get a "deal" in SF, among other cities.
      - louisswiss 9y ago

chasing 9y ago

Have you spent any time in Manhattan? It’s more than just Midtown. And the whole idea is smart growth that keeps cities accessible to everyone. So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever.

ForHackernews 9y ago
> So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever. Why not? Because you like living there?