7 ms·

It's more complex than a display; it's a display plus a collection of USB sensors and some low-level hooks into display management. This requires kernel-mode dr

It's more complex than a display; it's a display plus a collection of USB sensors and some low-level hooks into display management. This requires kernel-mode drivers, for good technical reasons, where a normal monitor wouldn't.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tomcam 9y ago
Why should the Rift fail when a certificate expires?
- CookieMon 9y ago
  I imagine someone went to a site like this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa388170(v=vs.85).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa3... read the command for signing their code, and signed their code as instructed. Today, the certificate they signed a driver with expired, and because the signature wasn't timestamped it means Windows can't know if the driver was signed with the certificate after it expired, so the signature is now treated as expired as well, so Windows doesn't trust the driver. Why wasn't it timestamped? Probably because instructions like the link above treat that as a separate subject to signing your code, and when you sign your code it looks and works like it's fully correctly signed. or, as wtallis puts it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16542204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16542204), someone left a foot-gun lying around that didn't have much value except to cause incidents like this. ...and if your own company makes Windows apps, go check they are timestamped ;)
  - tallanvor 9y ago
    Your same link also explains how to sign a file with a timestamp as well, and contains a link on how to add a timestamp after the fact. It doesn't pretend to know what the best practice is for your specific use case of the signing tool is. But you can also find places where Microsoft does talk about when you should be timestamping: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ieinternals/2011/03/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-authenticode-code-signing/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ieinternals/2011/03/22/ever...
    - CookieMon 9y ago
      > Your same link also explains how to sign a file with a timestamp as well Sure, further down it explains how to use signtool to timestamp something, but why would someone trying to get an app signed care about using the tool for timestamping? > where Microsoft does talk about when you should be timestamping If someone finds that article first, and reads to the bottom of it, it explains that timestamping is related and important and says the times you should be timestamping are "you should definitely do this", so perhaps a design that isn't a foot-gun would have "do this" as the default, with a --force option and alarmist warnings for anybody who has a reason to have their signed executables expire one day. Design oversights and user mistakes like these will happen, but it doesn't mean influences and causes can't be identified and improved. (most of the builds at the company I work for had not been timestamped either)
wtallis 9y ago
That's a reasonable answer to why the drivers need to be signed in order to be installed. That's not the question. The question is why should the already-installed drivers that you've been trusting all along suddenly stop working.
- sjburt 9y ago
  Apparently, they signed them incorrectly.
  - wtallis 9y ago
    That puts the blame on Oculus, but the blame really should rest on Microsoft for enabling and enforcing a signature mode that shouldn't exist at all.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Does that really not sound ridiculous to you? Microsoft needs to be blamed for their certificate validation implementation because people might use it to make their software expire? Instead of just writing code that does so?
      - wtallis 9y ago
        Microsoft's driver signing model has a mode that is a giant footgun with no redeeming value. Oculus is a victim of Microsoft's bad design. They weren't trying to build in a self-destruct timer for their whole product stack, and if they were, they wouldn't have used the driver signing certificate as the lynchpin.
        flamedoge 9y ago
        you can't guard against every imaginable stupidity. you try but users will inevitably find a hole.
        9y ago
Karliss 9y ago
Any reason why most sensors couldn't be handled by generic HID drivers which even have dedicated VR page?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tomcam 9y ago

Why should the Rift fail when a certificate expires?

CookieMon 9y ago
I imagine someone went to a site like this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa388170(v=vs.85).aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa3... read the command for signing their code, and signed their code as instructed. Today, the certificate they signed a driver with expired, and because the signature wasn't timestamped it means Windows can't know if the driver was signed with the certificate after it expired, so the signature is now treated as expired as well, so Windows doesn't trust the driver. Why wasn't it timestamped? Probably because instructions like the link above treat that as a separate subject to signing your code, and when you sign your code it looks and works like it's fully correctly signed. or, as wtallis puts it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16542204 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16542204), someone left a foot-gun lying around that didn't have much value except to cause incidents like this. ...and if your own company makes Windows apps, go check they are timestamped ;)
- tallanvor 9y ago
  Your same link also explains how to sign a file with a timestamp as well, and contains a link on how to add a timestamp after the fact. It doesn't pretend to know what the best practice is for your specific use case of the signing tool is. But you can also find places where Microsoft does talk about when you should be timestamping: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ieinternals/2011/03/22/everything-you-need-to-know-about-authenticode-code-signing/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/ieinternals/2011/03/22/ever...
  - CookieMon 9y ago
    > Your same link also explains how to sign a file with a timestamp as well Sure, further down it explains how to use signtool to timestamp something, but why would someone trying to get an app signed care about using the tool for timestamping? > where Microsoft does talk about when you should be timestamping If someone finds that article first, and reads to the bottom of it, it explains that timestamping is related and important and says the times you should be timestamping are "you should definitely do this", so perhaps a design that isn't a foot-gun would have "do this" as the default, with a --force option and alarmist warnings for anybody who has a reason to have their signed executables expire one day. Design oversights and user mistakes like these will happen, but it doesn't mean influences and causes can't be identified and improved. (most of the builds at the company I work for had not been timestamped either)

wtallis 9y ago

That's a reasonable answer to why the drivers need to be signed in order to be installed. That's not the question. The question is why should the already-installed drivers that you've been trusting all along suddenly stop working.

sjburt 9y ago
Apparently, they signed them incorrectly.
- wtallis 9y ago
  That puts the blame on Oculus, but the blame really should rest on Microsoft for enabling and enforcing a signature mode that shouldn't exist at all.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    Does that really not sound ridiculous to you? Microsoft needs to be blamed for their certificate validation implementation because people might use it to make their software expire? Instead of just writing code that does so?
    - wtallis 9y ago
      Microsoft's driver signing model has a mode that is a giant footgun with no redeeming value. Oculus is a victim of Microsoft's bad design. They weren't trying to build in a self-destruct timer for their whole product stack, and if they were, they wouldn't have used the driver signing certificate as the lynchpin.
      - flamedoge 9y ago
        you can't guard against every imaginable stupidity. you try but users will inevitably find a hole.
        9y ago

Karliss 9y ago

Any reason why most sensors couldn't be handled by generic HID drivers which even have dedicated VR page?