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Wow, mid-level developers pull $150k? Everything I had read previously stated that Google salaries were nothing special compared to industry averages, and it w

by narkee 16y ago

Wow, mid-level developers pull $150k? Everything I had read previously stated that Google salaries were nothing special compared to industry averages, and it was the perks and culture that differentiated them But there's no way $150k is average for a mid-range developer.

nostromo 16y ago
And you're not even mentioning the $500k retention bonus... Something seems off here.
gecko 16y ago
I have friends at Google, and have heard nothing indicating that salaries are anywhere in this ballpark. I also just spoke to someone whose girlfriend works there, and he too agreed that this article is bullshit. They might mean mid-level manager, or they may be counting all of the perks as part of the salary. But even there, a half-million retention bonus seems absurd to both of us.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Could "Mid-level developer" might mean a super developer who's considered at the level of a mid-level manager? IE, mid-level != mid-range? Google is a lot bigger than Facebook currently so I'd assume Facebook would be aiming to pick what they consider the "cream". The article mentions 118. Google has ~20K employees and a good portion of them would engineers.
  - lotharbot 16y ago
    In any corporation of that size, there are some "mid-level developer"s who are far better at what they do than their title suggests. For whatever reason, they just haven't moved up in title as fast as they've moved up in skill or productivity.
whakojacko 16y ago
Just wondering, what would you call average for a developer straight from college?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
mikeryan 16y ago
From glassdoor.com Software Engineer 697 Google Salaries Average $98,813 Range $70k-$129k Senior Software Engineer 77 Google Salaries - Average $124,393 Range $63k - $150k Software Engineer III 55 Google Salaries - Average $103,125 Range: $93k- $115k Software Engineer In Test 55 Google Salaries - Average: $85,078 Range: $62k- $104k Software Engineer II 20 Google Salaries - Average: $87,20 Range: $72k- $105k (so yeah $150k is highest end of Senior SW Engineer)
- houseabsolute 16y ago
  But we also have five additional levels above "senior software engineer," and there are a pretty large number of people in those higher regions. I'd say 150k is a bit above the "mid level" range, but it's certainly not above the 95%ile.
  - brg 16y ago
    The article may be including the estimated value of options and GSUs, which for T4 is about 25k/y (2006+).
    - akkartik 16y ago
      No it isn't. Based on personal experience. Bonuses and stock easily add 30% more. I don't know why Google salaries get knocked in the mainstream. And why Google doesn't try to set the record straight. It's a huge opportunity cost for people going into startups.
      - brg 16y ago
        Bonuses for an ME employee have run about 15-20% in the last two years. Stock refreshes are negligible, as the initial stock grant is the primary source of such an amount. T4 average 100k. Senior average 125k, but have a much higher initial stock grant and a slightly higher bonus level.
Jun8 16y ago
From what I know from friends the base salary may not be that much but they get handsome bonuses, maybe he added those to the base to get that number.
larsberg 16y ago
Even back in ~2005, "Seattle area compensation" was ~90k for folks just out of college, if you managed to get to mid-range it was around 120k, and then around 175k at senior IC levels. And, at the mid-range the eligible bonus amount jumped to around 50% yearly, and at the higher levels to > 100% of base. These numbers were slightly higher than Google's at the time, but GOOG was still playing the "our stock options are worth more than their stock grants" line. In any case, ~150k for mid-range is certainly believable. That said, realize that mid-range in pure software companies making Big Stuff is a little different. Most startup-level CTOs and Fortune 100-level "Architect" types came in at the bottom of mid-range, just due to not having worked at scope. At the time, Apple had the lowest pay for comparable grades of any of the firms we researched in our Seattle-area recruiting. Of course, those stock packages have probably made up for things -- if they didn't just flip them at vest for cash immediately, like most employees do! Also, if you think 150k is high, you should chat with folks doing software development in the finance industry. It's honestly a bit overboard, but the companies do what they have to in order to make sure that offers from Facebook, etc. aren't at all tempting.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  I suspect what's called "area compensation" is towards the higher end of what the average developer can expect. My rather vague impression is that the people who are considered good enough that a recruiter has to hire them will get the 80-100k while for the rest its more like 60-80K. Correct me if I'm wrong - please, I'm curious really... Edit: Google in particular is a large company by now. At the start, I would assume they'd pay premium for developers but over time I'd assume they'd aim to pay least possible for the people who met their standards.
jlees 16y ago
As someone on TC put it, a mid-range dev at Google could easily be a superstar dev elsewhere. Ignoring that, if you factor in vesting stock and the annual bonus, 150k doesn't seem that insane to me.
lsc 16y ago
It's possible that they are including the costs of benefits and perks. My impression that mid level for google (which is to say, top level people most places in the valley.) was around $30-$40K lower than that in terms of cash monies. But I could easily believe that if you include the cash value of benefits, vacation, and perks, that shoots up to $150K. Google's salary is generally not anything to write home about either way, but they do hire people who would be top-end most other places, and their perks are top notch.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
brg 16y ago
The report of Google salaries at Glassdoor.com is accurate. Engineers start at T3 out of college, and move to T4 after a year. T4 is mid level. Senior is a T4 with a good win and some presentation skills. Staff are some of the best engineers with long track records, but require some managerial skills. Those above are superstars and managers.

by narkee 16y ago

nostromo 16y ago

And you're not even mentioning the $500k retention bonus... Something seems off here.

gecko 16y ago

I have friends at Google, and have heard nothing indicating that salaries are anywhere in this ballpark. I also just spoke to someone whose girlfriend works there, and he too agreed that this article is bullshit. They might mean mid-level manager, or they may be counting all of the perks as part of the salary. But even there, a half-million retention bonus seems absurd to both of us.

joe_the_user 16y ago
Could "Mid-level developer" might mean a super developer who's considered at the level of a mid-level manager? IE, mid-level != mid-range? Google is a lot bigger than Facebook currently so I'd assume Facebook would be aiming to pick what they consider the "cream". The article mentions 118. Google has ~20K employees and a good portion of them would engineers.
- lotharbot 16y ago
  In any corporation of that size, there are some "mid-level developer"s who are far better at what they do than their title suggests. For whatever reason, they just haven't moved up in title as fast as they've moved up in skill or productivity.

whakojacko 16y ago

Just wondering, what would you call average for a developer straight from college?

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

mikeryan 16y ago

From glassdoor.com Software Engineer 697 Google Salaries Average $98,813 Range $70k-$129k Senior Software Engineer 77 Google Salaries - Average $124,393 Range $63k - $150k Software Engineer III 55 Google Salaries - Average $103,125 Range: $93k- $115k Software Engineer In Test 55 Google Salaries - Average: $85,078 Range: $62k- $104k Software Engineer II 20 Google Salaries - Average: $87,20 Range: $72k- $105k (so yeah $150k is highest end of Senior SW Engineer)

houseabsolute 16y ago
But we also have five additional levels above "senior software engineer," and there are a pretty large number of people in those higher regions. I'd say 150k is a bit above the "mid level" range, but it's certainly not above the 95%ile.
- brg 16y ago
  The article may be including the estimated value of options and GSUs, which for T4 is about 25k/y (2006+).
  - akkartik 16y ago
    No it isn't. Based on personal experience. Bonuses and stock easily add 30% more. I don't know why Google salaries get knocked in the mainstream. And why Google doesn't try to set the record straight. It's a huge opportunity cost for people going into startups.
    - brg 16y ago
      Bonuses for an ME employee have run about 15-20% in the last two years. Stock refreshes are negligible, as the initial stock grant is the primary source of such an amount. T4 average 100k. Senior average 125k, but have a much higher initial stock grant and a slightly higher bonus level.

Jun8 16y ago

From what I know from friends the base salary may not be that much but they get handsome bonuses, maybe he added those to the base to get that number.

larsberg 16y ago

Even back in ~2005, "Seattle area compensation" was ~90k for folks just out of college, if you managed to get to mid-range it was around 120k, and then around 175k at senior IC levels. And, at the mid-range the eligible bonus amount jumped to around 50% yearly, and at the higher levels to > 100% of base. These numbers were slightly higher than Google's at the time, but GOOG was still playing the "our stock options are worth more than their stock grants" line. In any case, ~150k for mid-range is certainly believable. That said, realize that mid-range in pure software companies making Big Stuff is a little different. Most startup-level CTOs and Fortune 100-level "Architect" types came in at the bottom of mid-range, just due to not having worked at scope. At the time, Apple had the lowest pay for comparable grades of any of the firms we researched in our Seattle-area recruiting. Of course, those stock packages have probably made up for things -- if they didn't just flip them at vest for cash immediately, like most employees do! Also, if you think 150k is high, you should chat with folks doing software development in the finance industry. It's honestly a bit overboard, but the companies do what they have to in order to make sure that offers from Facebook, etc. aren't at all tempting.

joe_the_user 16y ago
I suspect what's called "area compensation" is towards the higher end of what the average developer can expect. My rather vague impression is that the people who are considered good enough that a recruiter has to hire them will get the 80-100k while for the rest its more like 60-80K. Correct me if I'm wrong - please, I'm curious really... Edit: Google in particular is a large company by now. At the start, I would assume they'd pay premium for developers but over time I'd assume they'd aim to pay least possible for the people who met their standards.

jlees 16y ago

As someone on TC put it, a mid-range dev at Google could easily be a superstar dev elsewhere. Ignoring that, if you factor in vesting stock and the annual bonus, 150k doesn't seem that insane to me.

lsc 16y ago

It's possible that they are including the costs of benefits and perks. My impression that mid level for google (which is to say, top level people most places in the valley.) was around $30-$40K lower than that in terms of cash monies. But I could easily believe that if you include the cash value of benefits, vacation, and perks, that shoots up to $150K. Google's salary is generally not anything to write home about either way, but they do hire people who would be top-end most other places, and their perks are top notch.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

brg 16y ago

The report of Google salaries at Glassdoor.com is accurate. Engineers start at T3 out of college, and move to T4 after a year. T4 is mid level. Senior is a T4 with a good win and some presentation skills. Staff are some of the best engineers with long track records, but require some managerial skills. Those above are superstars and managers.