8 ms·

Have you considered the incentives that they have when talking to a paying customer? Particularly one that is going to rate them based on the interaction? Of c

by olefoo 9y ago

Have you considered the incentives that they have when talking to a paying customer? Particularly one that is going to rate them based on the interaction? Of course they "love their job"; they want to create a positive experience in the mind of someone who has a lot of power over them. What I'm saying is that your anecdata has an observer effect that you are strongly discounting.

moate 9y ago
Also: most waiters think your jokes are funny, and every stripper thinks you're very handsom.
- ralston 9y ago
  ^this +1
allthenews 9y ago
What incentives? A 4 instead of 5 star rating, and maybe a $1-5 tip? For answering a question honestly? I think your incentives are overstated. Excluding some kind of egregious slight, riders have very little influence over drivers.
- doorbumper 9y ago
  That is not overstated. The rating has a significant impact on their livelihood. In addition, tips are 100% profit. I'm sure $5 is chump change to you, but a $5 tip an hour would be 60% pay increase.
  - allthenews 9y ago
    Well, there's no way for us to prove either side, but I suspect that $5 tips are rare, and given the enthusiasm of many of my drivers, I don't expect that many of them would feel the need to lie on the off chance that they might get a nice tip. Also, consider that sob stories confer tips too. Why not convince your customer that uber is abusing you, but you have nowhere else to go? I suppose we are just arguing over anecdote; however, my point is that the simple preponderance of drivers is evidence that by and large they are indeed satisfied, as they report to me when I ask.
    - zasz 9y ago
      > Also, consider that sob stories confer tips too. Why not convince your customer that uber is abusing you, but you have nowhere else to go? Not in the context of providing a professional service, it doesn't. When was the last time you tipped a waiter or waitress more for a sob story? People want to be catered to when they're paying for a service, and part of that is not having to worry about other people's negative emotions.
    - dbajakkchs 9y ago
      Why do you think $5 tips are rare? 20% rounded up to the nearest dollar is my usual practice, and I don’t think of myself as someone who throws money around.
      - lotsofpulp 9y ago
        That is crazy to me. 15% is for good service, 20% might be for exceptional service. It's already a percent, no need to adjust for inflation. I love seeing college kids tip 25% at food trucks with their clover iPad or square terminal. First of all, there is no waiter or service, and secondly, the options presented are 18%, 20%, and 25% or something equally stupid. I'm always fascinated that these kids with no income have no problem hitting the 25% button...for nothing.
        deadmetheny 9y ago
        A 25% tip is crazy. Our machine shows 15%, 20%, and "other", and I'd say we average something like 10% in tips any given day. Considering the level of service one gets from a food truck, that feels pretty fair to me.
        fwip 9y ago
        College kids know what it's like to be broke, and on average, feel that food-service workers don't make enough money. It's like the studies that show that poor people give a greater share of their income to charity.
        pessimizer 9y ago
  - username223 9y ago
    This is a good rule for interacting with tipped US workers in general: be generous, and tip in cash. Tips are a way for companies to save money by avoiding taxes, and a way for workers to be paid without their employers taking a cut. If you think Uber is paying your driver less than minimum wage, make up the difference in cash. Also, "internet points" in the form of stars cost you nothing, so give your driver five stars unless he was completely incompetent.
    - zaarn 9y ago
      Luckily I live in a country where I don't have to ensure the survival of my taxi driver or waiter by giving them a tip. They get paid decently from the start.
- zasz 9y ago
  Drivers get booted off the Uber platform when their ratings go too low, so riders have plenty of power. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mysterious-way-uber-bans-drivers https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mysterious-way-uber-bans-d... "For a Harvard student, the median grade is an A- and for an Uber driver, anything below a 4.7 out of 5 average rating from passengers spells trouble. Or, as one driver memorably puts it on Uber People, a popular web forum for rideshare drivers: “4.6 is [a] death zone.”" As for finding out what Uber drivers actually think, you can google "uber driver forum." A unionization vote was called in one of those forums, and something like 96% of the drivers voted yes. Not a sign that they're happy with their lot, not at all.
piracykills 9y ago
I don't think that's really valid here - you're asking them for an opinion of their job, not their opinion of you. What they think of their job has nothing to do with how I'll rate them. Heck, I may rate them higher or tip them better if I feel sorry for them not making much money.
- edanm 9y ago
  Yes, but they don't necessarily know how you specifically will act. It's better to just assume that having a positive and happy discussion is better.
savanaly 9y ago
If I collected the same anecdata with Uber drivers I know in real life, not in the context of an uber ride, would the observer effect still apply?
- amelius 9y ago
  Yes, lots of people brag about their jobs, life, see Facebook.
- pimmen 9y ago
  Then you're subject to sample bias.
NelsonMinar 9y ago
Article from 2014 about how Uber drivers can't be honest, to protect their jobs: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/against-sharing/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/against-sharing/
BurningFrog 9y ago
Have you considered that the fact that they keep driving is a strong indicator that they think it's the best possible way they can spend their time? Two can play this game :)
- pimmen 9y ago
  Have you considered it might the best possible way to spend their time because they have hardships finding another job?
  - BurningFrog 9y ago
    Of course! I think most of us go to our current jobs only because we have a hard time finding a better one!
    - pimmen 9y ago
      So, it wouldn't be too crazy to think then that those hardships finding another job would influence what they tell a customer asking them about whether or not they like their current job?
      - edanm 9y ago
        Now you're asking something else than what was originally asked. They might say good things about their job because of the incentives to be positive and fear or losing the job. That's one argument that can be made, which I think is probably at least somewhat true: they might not like their job, but they won't admit it. What you're saying now is something else (if I understood correctly) - you're saying they only think good things about their job, because they can't get another job. That's a totally different thing! That argument is: they like their job, but for specific reasons. An argument I find a lot less compelling (because it's always true!).

by olefoo 9y ago

moate 9y ago

Also: most waiters think your jokes are funny, and every stripper thinks you're very handsom.

ralston 9y ago
^this +1

allthenews 9y ago

What incentives? A 4 instead of 5 star rating, and maybe a $1-5 tip? For answering a question honestly? I think your incentives are overstated. Excluding some kind of egregious slight, riders have very little influence over drivers.

doorbumper 9y ago
That is not overstated. The rating has a significant impact on their livelihood. In addition, tips are 100% profit. I'm sure $5 is chump change to you, but a $5 tip an hour would be 60% pay increase.
- allthenews 9y ago
  Well, there's no way for us to prove either side, but I suspect that $5 tips are rare, and given the enthusiasm of many of my drivers, I don't expect that many of them would feel the need to lie on the off chance that they might get a nice tip. Also, consider that sob stories confer tips too. Why not convince your customer that uber is abusing you, but you have nowhere else to go? I suppose we are just arguing over anecdote; however, my point is that the simple preponderance of drivers is evidence that by and large they are indeed satisfied, as they report to me when I ask.
  - zasz 9y ago
    > Also, consider that sob stories confer tips too. Why not convince your customer that uber is abusing you, but you have nowhere else to go? Not in the context of providing a professional service, it doesn't. When was the last time you tipped a waiter or waitress more for a sob story? People want to be catered to when they're paying for a service, and part of that is not having to worry about other people's negative emotions.
  - dbajakkchs 9y ago
    Why do you think $5 tips are rare? 20% rounded up to the nearest dollar is my usual practice, and I don’t think of myself as someone who throws money around.
    - lotsofpulp 9y ago
      That is crazy to me. 15% is for good service, 20% might be for exceptional service. It's already a percent, no need to adjust for inflation. I love seeing college kids tip 25% at food trucks with their clover iPad or square terminal. First of all, there is no waiter or service, and secondly, the options presented are 18%, 20%, and 25% or something equally stupid. I'm always fascinated that these kids with no income have no problem hitting the 25% button...for nothing.
      - deadmetheny 9y ago
        A 25% tip is crazy. Our machine shows 15%, 20%, and "other", and I'd say we average something like 10% in tips any given day. Considering the level of service one gets from a food truck, that feels pretty fair to me.
      - fwip 9y ago
        College kids know what it's like to be broke, and on average, feel that food-service workers don't make enough money. It's like the studies that show that poor people give a greater share of their income to charity.
      - pessimizer 9y ago
- username223 9y ago
  This is a good rule for interacting with tipped US workers in general: be generous, and tip in cash. Tips are a way for companies to save money by avoiding taxes, and a way for workers to be paid without their employers taking a cut. If you think Uber is paying your driver less than minimum wage, make up the difference in cash. Also, "internet points" in the form of stars cost you nothing, so give your driver five stars unless he was completely incompetent.
  - zaarn 9y ago
    Luckily I live in a country where I don't have to ensure the survival of my taxi driver or waiter by giving them a tip. They get paid decently from the start.
zasz 9y ago
Drivers get booted off the Uber platform when their ratings go too low, so riders have plenty of power. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mysterious-way-uber-bans-drivers https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-mysterious-way-uber-bans-d... "For a Harvard student, the median grade is an A- and for an Uber driver, anything below a 4.7 out of 5 average rating from passengers spells trouble. Or, as one driver memorably puts it on Uber People, a popular web forum for rideshare drivers: “4.6 is [a] death zone.”" As for finding out what Uber drivers actually think, you can google "uber driver forum." A unionization vote was called in one of those forums, and something like 96% of the drivers voted yes. Not a sign that they're happy with their lot, not at all.

piracykills 9y ago

I don't think that's really valid here - you're asking them for an opinion of their job, not their opinion of you. What they think of their job has nothing to do with how I'll rate them. Heck, I may rate them higher or tip them better if I feel sorry for them not making much money.

edanm 9y ago
Yes, but they don't necessarily know how you specifically will act. It's better to just assume that having a positive and happy discussion is better.

savanaly 9y ago

If I collected the same anecdata with Uber drivers I know in real life, not in the context of an uber ride, would the observer effect still apply?

amelius 9y ago
Yes, lots of people brag about their jobs, life, see Facebook.
pimmen 9y ago
Then you're subject to sample bias.

NelsonMinar 9y ago

Article from 2014 about how Uber drivers can't be honest, to protect their jobs: https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/against-sharing/ https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/09/against-sharing/

BurningFrog 9y ago

Have you considered that the fact that they keep driving is a strong indicator that they think it's the best possible way they can spend their time? Two can play this game :)

pimmen 9y ago
Have you considered it might the best possible way to spend their time because they have hardships finding another job?
- BurningFrog 9y ago
  Of course! I think most of us go to our current jobs only because we have a hard time finding a better one!
  - pimmen 9y ago
    So, it wouldn't be too crazy to think then that those hardships finding another job would influence what they tell a customer asking them about whether or not they like their current job?
    - edanm 9y ago
      Now you're asking something else than what was originally asked. They might say good things about their job because of the incentives to be positive and fear or losing the job. That's one argument that can be made, which I think is probably at least somewhat true: they might not like their job, but they won't admit it. What you're saying now is something else (if I understood correctly) - you're saying they only think good things about their job, because they can't get another job. That's a totally different thing! That argument is: they like their job, but for specific reasons. An argument I find a lot less compelling (because it's always true!).