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Historically, the ability to spend time alone with one's thoughts has always been a luxury, available only to those with the means to own or rent their own livi

Historically, the ability to spend time alone with one's thoughts has always been a luxury, available only to those with the means to own or rent their own living space. Everyone else in the world dealt with highly-communal living spaces where you didn't have any choice but to socialize with virtually 100% of your non-sleeping time. You simply didn't have an option to develop introversion unless you were extremely lucky.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
Ahhh.... stop bringing relevant context to everything. I wanted to just use this article (without reading it) to explain to my wife and kids why I need a few hours of alone time on Saturday.
- copperx 9y ago
  My desire of being alone most of the time is what has made me avoid marriage. But if I continue down this path, I'm sure that in my old age I'll regret it and long for company. I don't know whether to favor the present or the future.
  - leetcrew 9y ago
    i'm sure you have at least a few counterparts among whatever gender you find attractive. no need to rule it out altogether.
ISL 9y ago
Unless, of course, one were to go for a walk, or go outside.
samastur 9y ago
Huh? There are still plenty of hunter gatherers around that don't hunt or gather shoulder to shoulder and neither do farmers or shepherds. Communal living did not mean spending all your time in company of others.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  If you weren't, you generally were working. A lot of that was accomplished with others too. All I'm saying is, that the things introverts take for granted today, like the ability to opt out of social hierarchy, was not available to most people throughout history.
  - projektir 9y ago
    I don't really see why you couldn't walk away for some period of time, and something tells me plenty of people did. Not to mention, we don't know that much about those time periods in general, so this seems like an odd statement to make. "Well, it was a lot worse before, so you should be happy!" is a terrible message on multiple levels.
    - janlaureys 9y ago
      Last week a documentary aired about our (Belgian) National Rail Service. They interviewed the "punctuality manager" and he was kind of angry about how all personnel wants fancy IT infrastructure and better tablets and integrated systems that communicate quickly and smart. He was angry because when he started working carbon paper had just been invented and how much harder his job was back then. I thought dinosaurs were extinct but that guy proved me wrong.
    - vinceguidry 9y ago
      > "Well, it was a lot worse before, so you should be happy!" is a terrible message on multiple levels. That wasn't my intent at all, rather to add weight to the thesis of the article. Aloneness is something humans naturally seek out, not something to fear.
  - samastur 9y ago
    I am guessing you are not an introvert yourself. We certainly cannot opt out of social hierarchy and being one does not mean I want to be alone every waking moment. It does mean however that I like and need to be alone some of the time (alone, not idle). I happen to like being idle some of the time too, because I think it makes me more creative in the long run, but I don't actually need it otherwise.
donquichotte 9y ago
For the past 2k to 4k years maybe. Before, it was very easy to spend time alone. Walk 10 minutes away from your tribe and bam - you're all alone.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  Make a habit of doing it for very long periods of time and it affects your social situation. Think back to high school. Sure, you could go off and study by yourself if you want. But the ambient social situations around you can't be banished for long.
  - 52-6F-62 9y ago
    That reminds me of my experience, haha— I spent a lot of spare periods buried in mid-20th century Canadian and American literature and would often isolate myself in the cafeteria to read since a lot of classes would occupy the library during regular periods. The school's resident radio DJ-hopeful (and a swell guy) would hop up on the table in a reclined pose, head-on-hand, and ask me why I was sad. Not sad, just reading. It was surprisingly hard to communicate that to some people. And I was one of the AV/creative guys producing the in-school TV show!
    - wccrawford 9y ago
      Yeah, the "you're being quiet, you must be sad!" thing is awful. No, I'm really just enjoying myself, alone.
chepaslaaa 9y ago
Maybe in cities, in rural areas it's pretty fucking easy to end up alone for a while, even in the middle ages or antiquity.
- ianai 9y ago
  See Henry David Thoraeu for ref.
  - WalterSear 9y ago
    Not really. He was rather active in his community. > The premise of Walden—a man adventuring in a hut he builds for himself near a lake—seems like the ultimate boy ’s fantasy, and the convenient proximity of Thoreau’s cabin to friends and neighbors can remind one, a bit wryly, of a child pitching a tent in his parents’ backyard. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2012/septemberoctober/feature/not-exactly-hermit https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2012/septemberoctober/feature...
    - ianai 9y ago
      Yeah Ed Abbeys probably a better example.
    - verylittlemeat 9y ago
      not to mention he had his mom who lived nearby do his laundry
- Will_Parker 9y ago
  You've made a great point easily dismissible with the word "fucking". (Sorry for being annoying but it's a key point I wished I learned when younger.)
  - BlueGh0st 9y ago
    The blame falls on the reader to not invalidate a valid point just because of their personal issues with the language used.
zerostar07 9y ago
Monks
GrumpyNl 9y ago
You dont develop introversion, you have it or you dont.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  I think that question is far from settled.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    Also, it is a characteristic of your personality you can take action to change, if you desire to.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  There is a high correlation between high IQ and introversion. I don't actually believe most high IQ people are innately introverted. I think many of them become introverted due to being treated poorly by most social groups they encounter. On one gifted list years ago, someone anecdotally reported being very extroverted and becoming introverted over the course of a year of severe bullying during middle school. One of my sons is borderline between introversion and extroversion. He was an attention monger as a toddler, but became more introverted after starting school. He didn't like the weird, problematic attention he was getting at school for being more sociable and intentionally chose to disengage. I'm highly social in nature, but my values are the opposite of what people think that means. So I never taught my kids they were required to be crowd pleasers. So he felt quite free to choose. He is very talkative with me and his brother in private and I get reports that he is pretty popular in forums where he participates, which I have seen firsthand in the past. But most mere acquaintances describe him as quiet and shy and are quick to conclude he is ASD, which is probably true, though he has no formal diagnosis. But he turns it on and off at will according to what makes sense to him. I am quite skeptical that introversion and extroversion are something you are simply born with.
  - projektir 9y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. My experiences with the subject are very mixed and weird. I generally call myself an introvert because I can be by myself for weeks without being too bothered by it. But I also really enjoy spending time with people, as long as they're the right kind of people. But those people are hard to find, and mentioning this on its own tends to bring ire... If I don't want to meet with someone, there's often a very distinct draggy feeling as if meeting them is associated with something unpleasant.
hcnews 9y ago
I don't think this is a true statement. Children can be pretty vocal about their needs. I grew up as an introverted child and refused to go to relatives/gatherings etc. whenever I didn't want to. My parents understood early on and gave me space. I am pretty sure other kids have done this as well in at least the recent human history.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

Ahhh.... stop bringing relevant context to everything. I wanted to just use this article (without reading it) to explain to my wife and kids why I need a few hours of alone time on Saturday.

copperx 9y ago
My desire of being alone most of the time is what has made me avoid marriage. But if I continue down this path, I'm sure that in my old age I'll regret it and long for company. I don't know whether to favor the present or the future.
- leetcrew 9y ago
  i'm sure you have at least a few counterparts among whatever gender you find attractive. no need to rule it out altogether.

ISL 9y ago

Unless, of course, one were to go for a walk, or go outside.

samastur 9y ago

Huh? There are still plenty of hunter gatherers around that don't hunt or gather shoulder to shoulder and neither do farmers or shepherds. Communal living did not mean spending all your time in company of others.

vinceguidry 9y ago
If you weren't, you generally were working. A lot of that was accomplished with others too. All I'm saying is, that the things introverts take for granted today, like the ability to opt out of social hierarchy, was not available to most people throughout history.
- projektir 9y ago
  I don't really see why you couldn't walk away for some period of time, and something tells me plenty of people did. Not to mention, we don't know that much about those time periods in general, so this seems like an odd statement to make. "Well, it was a lot worse before, so you should be happy!" is a terrible message on multiple levels.
  - janlaureys 9y ago
    Last week a documentary aired about our (Belgian) National Rail Service. They interviewed the "punctuality manager" and he was kind of angry about how all personnel wants fancy IT infrastructure and better tablets and integrated systems that communicate quickly and smart. He was angry because when he started working carbon paper had just been invented and how much harder his job was back then. I thought dinosaurs were extinct but that guy proved me wrong.
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    > "Well, it was a lot worse before, so you should be happy!" is a terrible message on multiple levels. That wasn't my intent at all, rather to add weight to the thesis of the article. Aloneness is something humans naturally seek out, not something to fear.
- samastur 9y ago
  I am guessing you are not an introvert yourself. We certainly cannot opt out of social hierarchy and being one does not mean I want to be alone every waking moment. It does mean however that I like and need to be alone some of the time (alone, not idle). I happen to like being idle some of the time too, because I think it makes me more creative in the long run, but I don't actually need it otherwise.

donquichotte 9y ago

For the past 2k to 4k years maybe. Before, it was very easy to spend time alone. Walk 10 minutes away from your tribe and bam - you're all alone.

vinceguidry 9y ago
Make a habit of doing it for very long periods of time and it affects your social situation. Think back to high school. Sure, you could go off and study by yourself if you want. But the ambient social situations around you can't be banished for long.
- 52-6F-62 9y ago
  That reminds me of my experience, haha— I spent a lot of spare periods buried in mid-20th century Canadian and American literature and would often isolate myself in the cafeteria to read since a lot of classes would occupy the library during regular periods. The school's resident radio DJ-hopeful (and a swell guy) would hop up on the table in a reclined pose, head-on-hand, and ask me why I was sad. Not sad, just reading. It was surprisingly hard to communicate that to some people. And I was one of the AV/creative guys producing the in-school TV show!
  - wccrawford 9y ago
    Yeah, the "you're being quiet, you must be sad!" thing is awful. No, I'm really just enjoying myself, alone.

chepaslaaa 9y ago

Maybe in cities, in rural areas it's pretty fucking easy to end up alone for a while, even in the middle ages or antiquity.

ianai 9y ago
See Henry David Thoraeu for ref.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  Not really. He was rather active in his community. > The premise of Walden—a man adventuring in a hut he builds for himself near a lake—seems like the ultimate boy ’s fantasy, and the convenient proximity of Thoreau’s cabin to friends and neighbors can remind one, a bit wryly, of a child pitching a tent in his parents’ backyard. https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2012/septemberoctober/feature/not-exactly-hermit https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2012/septemberoctober/feature...
  - ianai 9y ago
    Yeah Ed Abbeys probably a better example.
  - verylittlemeat 9y ago
    not to mention he had his mom who lived nearby do his laundry
Will_Parker 9y ago
You've made a great point easily dismissible with the word "fucking". (Sorry for being annoying but it's a key point I wished I learned when younger.)
- BlueGh0st 9y ago
  The blame falls on the reader to not invalidate a valid point just because of their personal issues with the language used.

zerostar07 9y ago

Monks

GrumpyNl 9y ago

You dont develop introversion, you have it or you dont.

vinceguidry 9y ago
I think that question is far from settled.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Also, it is a characteristic of your personality you can take action to change, if you desire to.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
There is a high correlation between high IQ and introversion. I don't actually believe most high IQ people are innately introverted. I think many of them become introverted due to being treated poorly by most social groups they encounter. On one gifted list years ago, someone anecdotally reported being very extroverted and becoming introverted over the course of a year of severe bullying during middle school. One of my sons is borderline between introversion and extroversion. He was an attention monger as a toddler, but became more introverted after starting school. He didn't like the weird, problematic attention he was getting at school for being more sociable and intentionally chose to disengage. I'm highly social in nature, but my values are the opposite of what people think that means. So I never taught my kids they were required to be crowd pleasers. So he felt quite free to choose. He is very talkative with me and his brother in private and I get reports that he is pretty popular in forums where he participates, which I have seen firsthand in the past. But most mere acquaintances describe him as quiet and shy and are quick to conclude he is ASD, which is probably true, though he has no formal diagnosis. But he turns it on and off at will according to what makes sense to him. I am quite skeptical that introversion and extroversion are something you are simply born with.
- projektir 9y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. My experiences with the subject are very mixed and weird. I generally call myself an introvert because I can be by myself for weeks without being too bothered by it. But I also really enjoy spending time with people, as long as they're the right kind of people. But those people are hard to find, and mentioning this on its own tends to bring ire... If I don't want to meet with someone, there's often a very distinct draggy feeling as if meeting them is associated with something unpleasant.

hcnews 9y ago

I don't think this is a true statement. Children can be pretty vocal about their needs. I grew up as an introverted child and refused to go to relatives/gatherings etc. whenever I didn't want to. My parents understood early on and gave me space. I am pretty sure other kids have done this as well in at least the recent human history.