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Research suggests some potential benefits to being a loner
- zitterbewegung 9y agoI bet if I google I can find the BBC refuting this statement in the past.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- dhuramas 9y agohttp://www.bbc.com/news/health-21517864 http://www.bbc.com/news/health-21517864 - Looking for this?
- mfoy_ 9y agoThere's an important distinction between being lonely and being a loner. Key point: A loner wouldn't get lonely, they'd be perfectly content to be alone.
- projektir 9y agoThe difference can be hard to tell, though - the loner might have internalized the message that they should feel lonely.
- vezycash 9y agoIt's more about one's natural base or comfort level. Person A, for whatever reason can't sit still and won't feel right unless they spend most of their time with other people. Person Z, for whatever reason is drained through interacting with others. Example: I can't read unless it's quiet or a familiar music is playing. People moving about also distracts me. On the other hand, I know a few people who'll fall asleep reading in a library but not in a noisy area. Jazz, classical and soul music causes itching sensations in these persons. Heck, the article could talk about Jazz lovers and pass the same message.
- projektir 9y agoI can't really make sense of your post, to be quite honest. > It's more about one's natural base or comfort level. I mean, no, I don't really agree. Negative feelings about oneself are extremely dependent on your society, I would say more so than your personal preferences (i.e., behaving per your personal preferences when it generates negative social attention is MORE damaging than behaving per social preferences when it generates negative effects due to ignoring personal preferences). Most people can adapt. Personal baselines basically only kick in at far extremes and most people are neither. What introverts generally hit isn't that, it's that introverts may be very different from the rest of the folk (since they're the non-default) and stand out as a sore thumb, anyway. > Heck, the article could talk about Jazz lovers and pass the same message. Again, what? Jazz is not a universal trait (introversion/extroversion affects everyone). Being super into Jazz or super not into Jazz is not really going to modify your life much. How is this similar at all?
- prophesi 9y agoThe article starts off talking about the loneliness epidemic & extreme social isolation, so they're well aware of the negative impacts it may have as well.
- mfoy_ 9y agoClassic media-driven science reporting: Headline today: "Study shows X causes cancer!" Headline tomorrow: "Study shows X can prevent cancer!"
- vanadium 9y agoEverything in moderation. When I worked from home for 5 years (in a company with the same distributed ethos as Basecamp 10 years back) it was easy to become extremely socially isolated if I wanted to. And it happened a couple of times over that span, but recognizing the balance of good mental health spun that back into a balanced state. (To be sure, my wife was immensely helpful about recognizing it and forcing me out the door more.) I've been working in offices again for the past, I don't know, 7-8 years now which initially gave me some whiplash as an introvert finding himself working in a position where extroversion tends to rule the day. Nowadays, however, I have a little electronics workshop in my basement where I can scurry off to and think with clarity all to myself after the day is done. It's rejuvenating and gives me a stronger sense of worth and balance in my overall mental health.
- deltaumlaut 9y ago>Everything in moderation. I was thinking exactly this when I saw parent's comment. Has anyone attempted to describe this theory scientifically? Is it equivalent to the "bell curve"?
- freech 9y agoIt follows from the law of marginal utility.
- zitterbewegung 9y agoI’m not disputing your anecdotal evidence. I’m disputing the legitimacy of the study due to bad scientific reporting. Sorry I didn’t explain that in my comment .
- VLM 9y agoWestern civ standard has been extroversion fundamentalist for a long time, non-belief in extroversion superiority has often been characterized as a disease that must be cured. Much like Christian fundamentalism leads to weird scientific discussions, extroversion fundamentalism also results in weird claims. For example, masturbation leads to insanity and hairy palms, much like being alone leads to insanity and cancer. It should be easy to find statements along those lines. Addiction to social interaction is identical to addiction to alcohol in that if you tell addicts its possible to live without the addiction, at least if they haven't hit rock bottom yet, you'll get an extremely strong reaction out of them because it threatens the addiction. No its not possible you're wrong you're evil that's not true you're making this all up you're the wrong/sick one, etc.
- vinceguidry 9y agoHistorically, the ability to spend time alone with one's thoughts has always been a luxury, available only to those with the means to own or rent their own living space. Everyone else in the world dealt with highly-communal living spaces where you didn't have any choice but to socialize with virtually 100% of your non-sleeping time. You simply didn't have an option to develop introversion unless you were extremely lucky.
- ghostbrainalpha 9y agoAhhh.... stop bringing relevant context to everything. I wanted to just use this article (without reading it) to explain to my wife and kids why I need a few hours of alone time on Saturday.
- copperx 9y agoMy desire of being alone most of the time is what has made me avoid marriage. But if I continue down this path, I'm sure that in my old age I'll regret it and long for company. I don't know whether to favor the present or the future.
- leetcrew 9y agoi'm sure you have at least a few counterparts among whatever gender you find attractive. no need to rule it out altogether.
- ISL 9y agoUnless, of course, one were to go for a walk, or go outside.
- samastur 9y agoHuh? There are still plenty of hunter gatherers around that don't hunt or gather shoulder to shoulder and neither do farmers or shepherds. Communal living did not mean spending all your time in company of others.
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- osrec 9y agoThis resonates with me, being a bit of an introvert. There is something rather lovely about encasing yourself in your own thoughts without the pressure or prejudice of other opinions. I do enjoy company as well, but I really feel alive and free when I can think clearly, which happens most often when I'm alone - it actually gives me a profound sense wellbeing.
- dpflan 9y agoBeing a loner and socializing seem to occur in proportion to your personality, which let's say has an inherent value across the spectrum. That value can shift depending upon your emotional, psychological, and physiological state. There are times when shifting along the spectrum either by conscious choice or social coercion (benevolent I hope) is very useful. I think your personality is constructed through the interaction of waves of perception and understanding of oneself generated by you and others who know you: this seems to make your personality whole because others can help you understand yourself either directly or indirectly through shared experiences. In addition to the usual self-analysis/introspection, others can act as a mirror or microscope to examine oneself. Here is the conclusion of the article: "Thus, if your personality tends toward unsociability, you shouldn’t feel the need to change. Of course, that comes with caveats. But as long as you have regular social contact, you are choosing solitude rather than being forced into it, you have at least a few good friends and your solitude is good for your well-being or productivity, there’s no point agonising over how to fit a square personality into a round hole." There were articles and discussion yesterday and in the past about the dangers of loneliness which may be salient as social networking creates a paradox of socialization: I'm with all my friends (maybe even humanity), but physically I am alone. > https://hn.algolia.com/?query=loneliness&sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&dateRange=all&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?query=loneliness&sort=byPopularity&p...
- dwighttk 9y agoMy category of clickbait includes almost every single "Why X may be Y" headline
- vinay427 9y agoThat's great. It doesn't even apply to this title, however. Furthermore, I'm not sure how you can convince yourself to read studies in psychology (among other fields) if you hope for certainty and absoluteness in every implication.
- dwighttk 9y agoarticle title is "Why being a loner may be good for your health" I don't avoid lack of certainty... I've just found that article titles that conform to "Why X may be Y" are what I consider clickbait enough of the time that I only read them occasionally.
- vinay427 9y agoMy apologies about the title. I saw the HN title ("Research suggests...") and ignored the BBC title when I went to read the article.
- ksk 9y agoYes, Psychology is not really a science. I suppose certain topics appeal to the HN audience..
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Bizarro 9y agoSometimes I get the feeling that there's too much over analysis of things and too often they lead to bad unintended consequences. Not everything needs to be "researched". Can we redirect some "research" money of this nature to things like cold fusion and curing cancer?
- castis 9y agoDo you think there isn't already ongoing research on cold fusion? on curing cancer? Do you think money just gets allocated to these projects by some black box of a process? Do you think there are things that humanity should just flat-out not know?
- ravenstine 9y agoAt some level I agree, but if we focused on too few things at once, we become deficient in other areas and that has consequences. Also, not all people have the passion and the talent to work do cancer research.
- vezycash 9y agoIn either Age of empires, or Rise of Nations, soldiers take steady attrition damage operating on enemy grounds. And, gain health just by being on home or ally territory. I think this analogy works for introverts vs extroverts. Introverts take attrition damage dealing with others - especially extroverts. Extroverts take attrition damage when alone or on slow paced periods.
- ianai 9y agoIn my experience, society pressures many bad decisions on people out of social conformity or expectations. For instance, it’s pretty hard to live a genuinely healthy lifestyle in the US. Most jobs are sedentary. Diet options tend to be heavily animal based and fatty or otherwise nutrient poor and calorie rich. Everybody loves tailgating the car going the speed limit, etc. simply opting out of those things will probably result in better health outcomes.
- whichdan 9y agoOh absolutely. Trying to diet in a major city without spending a lot of time cooking is impossible. And it feels like most cuisines are vegetable-phobic which I cannot for the life of me understand.
- ch4s3 9y ago> Trying to diet in a major city without spending a lot of time cooking is impossible What? Are you expecting to be able to eat high quality, nutritious, and tasty food without investing either more time or money? I live in NYC and you can absolutely eat healthy food without cooking, it just costs a bit more.
- ianai 9y agoBeans, gluten, rice, potatoes, etc are all commodity goods and very cheap. Nuts can get pricy but they’re so calorically dense that you don’t need many of them either. You’re not going to convince me that cooking a baked good with a chia substitute for egg is more resource intensive. Where this argument fails is probably due to lack of economies of scale. Ie if those substitutions were made with the subsidies and scale of their animal based contemporaries they would be dramatically cheaper.
- balfirevic 9y agoMaybe I'm misunderstanding you, but why do you associate chia substitute for egg with health?
- mauserx 9y agoI think the term "loner" sends mixed signals. It has a negative connotation and to me at least, it means that you want to socialise but find it difficult or awkward. Instead, I think what this article is getting at is simply setting time aside in your agenda for yourself. That's it. Whether it be to hone some skills, relax, meditate, plan your future, whatever. It's super helpful. I live in a small village and commute every day by train or car. Sometimes I take one hour walks with my dog and talk with myself. I look forward to it sometimes. It's like catching up with a friend after a busy week. Tiny definitions like these can really make a difference. I wish we were more careful, specially in an era where people only read headlines and feel they gained knowledge.
- tabtab 9y agoA better lawn ;-)
- discreteevent 9y agoReminds me of Crocodile Dundee having come to the city from long walkabouts alone in the outback - "Must be real friendly people to all want to live together like this!"
- DisruptiveDave 9y agoThe best part about being comfortable as a "loner" is that your daily state of existence moves from one of need to one of curation and choice. Being alone is where I thrive, so any break from that requires a better return. My social moments have meaning to them now, because I choose to allow them to happen. It's very difficult for toxic people to get in my space because I don't live with the need for company, regardless of whether that company provides actual value to my day.
- yousir 9y agoYour ideas are intriguing to me and I need someone/something to reinforce the feeling I got from reading them.
- alexashka 9y agoThis. What you're describing is freedom from needing to have people around. I've found that as I spend far less time with people, I am much more attentive, patient and kind when I do spend time with them, especially when it's with people I choose to be around. I get time to reflect on things too, because there's enough space in-between to go 'oh, I was starting to get agitated when this happened, that's interesting'. With strangers, it's a different vibe too, because it's fun to see what they'll do. I don't have a perpetual self-defense shield up, because I'm not emotionally destabilized from over-stimulation - from interactions I'm forced to be in. So yeah, it's great to be able to choose :)
- Will_Parker 9y agoSerious question, how do you deal with being invited to parties when you don't have the mental stamina and emotional resources for it at the time?
- ianai 9y ago“Guys I feel like sh!t, maybe next time.”
- DisruptiveDave 9y agoI'm a bit of an edge case, I'd presume, because I'm very very social when I want to be. Maybe that's not weird, after all. But at the end of the day, I either a) don't go because I don't want to (adult choices!!!) or b) just try to reframe my mental state. Check out a podcast called Good Fortune, episode 1, A Festival. It very briefly addresses this challenge from a stoic's point of view. Worth a listen.
- tsumnia 9y agoI'm curious if there is any research in Computer Science Education / Software Engineering that looks at some of the more holistic aspects of group work. One of the supporting arguments for things like paired programming is the idea that software developers, previously stereotyped as being isolated basement dwellers, need to be able to socialize in the business world. It seems then counter-intuitive to do these types of activities if they work stump creativity in problem-solving. Furthermore, what about isolation while learning/homework? NCSU requires introductory CS students to work in groups for lab assignments. Research my lab currently is doing shows collaborative students can have good learning gains, as well as a person who "does all the work". How does this article's points align with these types of findings?
- beersigns 9y agoI'm not sure I'd classify myself as a loner(married, fairly large social circle) but I definitely value my self reflection time. I do think I tend to be more 'dense' in my social interactions as the article suggests. Ie if I"m gonna spend a lot of hours doing something social(parties, meet-ups etc), I'd prefer there to be some observable benefit. There are plenty of ways to I know of it improve/expand my knowledge on my own: skunkworks projects, reading etc. Think it's pretty much like anything else in life: find the balance of alone time and socialization that works for you and you'll be healthier and happier for it.
- JasonFruit 9y agoThis has not been new knowledge for several thousand years, at least. Marcus Aurelius, from the Meditations: "Men seek retreats for themselves, houses in the country, sea-shores, and mountains; and thou too art wont to desire such things very much. But this is altogether a mark of the most common sort of men, for it is in thy power whenever thou shalt choose to retire into thyself. For nowhere either with more quiet or more freedom from trouble does a man retire than into his own soul, particularly when he has within him such thoughts that by looking into them he is immediately in perfect tranquility; and I affirm that tranquility is nothing else than the good ordering of the mind. Constantly then give to thyself this retreat, and renew thyself; and let thy principles be brief and fundamental, which, as soon as thou shalt recur to them, will be sufficient to cleanse the soul completely, and to send thee back free from all discontent with the things to which thou returnest." But Marcus was no loner, and neither are the people who are able to use isolation healthily, for the most part. We should neither over- nor under-emphasize "the things to which thou returnest."
- adbge 9y agoI have been collecting mystic quotes in the same vein.[1] This one, from Bernadette Roberts, is my favorite: > There is a silence within, a silence that descends from without; a silence that stills existence and a silence that engulfs the entire universe. There is a silence of the self and its faculties of will, thought, memory, and emotions. There is a silence in which there is nothing, a silence in which there is something; and finally, there is the silence of no-self and the silence of God. If there was any path on which I could chart my contemplative experiences, it would be this ever-expanding and deepening path of silence. [1] http://99theses.com/articles/on-awakening-no-thought http://99theses.com/articles/on-awakening-no-thought
- ravenstine 9y agoI have the usual reasons for preferring solitude over socializing, but there's also a sort of meta-reason that causes me to want to socialize even less: When I am asked about what I've been up to, and I'm honest in that I spend a lot of my time in a balance between intellectual pursuits and mundane chores, I am treated as if I am crazy or deficient. People who don't require my level of solitude see it as a sign that I'm broken, and they never grasp that I prefer it because it helps me stay healthy and creative. I recently took a two week vacation from work; I had been working non-stop for over a year and needed some time to not code or work on anything. I drove out to Arches National Park, spent some time in nature, came back, and simply relaxed at home. Read some books, played video games, etc. According to everyone, I should have gone out to see the latest movies, taken a cruise, traveled to cities, experienced night life, seen family and friends, and filled all my days with "activities". My life is supposed to be exciting, by their standard of what exciting is. It's pretty insulting, especially because they don't even attempt to see it my way. I perfectly understand why others don't want the kind of solitude that I desire, and I don't deride them of it. To be a genuine person only to be met with implications that I'm not living my life correctly makes me think "Why am I bothering with this shit?" So I socialize even less. To me, socializing for the sake of it is rarely worth the time. It's good practice for when you want to socialize with people who are worth your time, but the returns are pretty diminishing. I don't need to continually explain to people why I'm not filling every moment of my life with "activities" and why I care about my craft(coding). People who value socializing often talk about being a good listener, but they rarely do this themselves. If people were more open in their attitudes, I'd be more likely to want to socialize with them.
- SubuSS 9y agoI live for the kind of vacation you describe. Almost everyone I take, I do get my family with me (so not exactly solitude), but freedom to do what I want is the main chase there. But do give bandwidth to the 'everyone' you talk about: In my experience, many people look at communication as a 'contributing' activity: meaning they want to add to it with their own color / knowledge rather than listen to what you are saying and go "that's awesome dude!" and move on. I would assume some like it too instead of looking at it as one-upping because this is pretty wide spread. I just look at it as chatter rather than judgment nowadays, frees me from the insulted feeling. I didn't do that for their approval, so while approval would feel nice, I am totally free to ignore their judgment :)
- blackrock 9y agoWhat I like about being a loner, is that no one can influence me. My decisions are all my own. I used to live with roommates, and it was too mentally exhausting. Once I was able to afford my own 1-bedroom apartment, I moved out. And I found serenity. No more mess to deal with that wasn't my own. No more roommates bailing on me, causing unnecessary drama. You now have better control of your life and destiny. When I traveled for work, I had to travel alone. I found the best place to sit was at the bar. The sports game on TV provides distraction. And sometimes, you get to strike a conversation with another fellow traveler.
- ilamont 9y agounnecessary drama That's the thing I dislike, along with needy people.
- chrisweekly 9y ago>"Research suggests some potential benefits to being a loner" ... says loner.
- chrisweekly 9y agoIt was a joke! (facepalm)
- Parcissons 9y agoIn this thread- everyone in deep denial about the guys with destroyed affect sitting at the hotelbar in the evening.
- SubuSS 9y agoI am fine with choosing a 'loner' path, but the hitch comes when they want civilization / society to come to rescue whenever they feel like it or are in danger or stuck etc. I did and do pride myself for being able to be on my own but over time, I have come to see what my family adds to my existence. What I don't realize and appreciate when they are around, I completely feel it when they aren't. The social part of me is like a cat I guess: when others are watching, it just wants to hide under a counter, goes for snuggles once in a while. As in all things, it is good to keep a moderate involvement. You can't expect them snuggles without giving something in return to family/society/country/whatever. Time for another one of my dumb theories: The system has enabled us to be alone more and more without actually putting ourselves in the path of physical labor/danger - but I believe it is also fraying at the seams exactly because of the same. It is hard to care for your fellow man / schools / community etc. when you hardly participate and if you only react when personally impacted. Social contracts need social involvement.
- ericmcer 9y agoI think many people revel in their ability to be alone, almost as if it is some special ability they have. For me, truly being alone means: no television, no video games, no internet. It is not really some special ability to watch 4 hours of Netflix while browsing the internet on your phone occasionally.
- cvaidya1986 9y ago“Those who really want to be Yogis must give up, once for all, this nibbling at things. Take up one idea. Make that one idea your life — think of it, dream of it, live on that idea. Let the brain, muscles, nerves, every part of your body, be full of that idea, and just leave every other idea alone. This is the way to success, and this is the way great spiritual giants are produced. Others are mere talking machines. If we really want to be blessed, and make others blessed, we must go deeper. The first step is not to disturb the mind, not to associate with persons whose ideas are disturbing. All of you know that certain persons, certain places, certain foods, repel you. Avoid them; and those who want to go to the highest, must avoid all company, good or bad. Practise hard; whether you live or die does not matter. You have to plunge in and work, without thinking of the result. If you are brave enough, in six months you will be a perfect Yogi. But those who take up just a bit of it and a little of everything else make no progress[…]” Excerpt From Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda Swami Vivekananda https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/complete-works-of-swami-vivekananda/id1253889202?mt=11 https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/complete-works-of-swami-viv... This material may be protected by copyright.
- factsaresacred 9y agoI replaced going out with staying in after realizing that much of the activities weren't all that great. 'Hanging out', drinks, chasing girls, spending cash, and then back on the treadmill making cash in order to rinse and repeat. To be fair, these things are fun but as you get older the opportunity cost is way too high for them to be worthwhile at the expense of self improvement. Instead I work for 3 months at a time everyday in almost total solitude on an online business then spend two weeks travelling Asia or on a roadtrip. Those two weeks make up for whatever mediocre activities I missed the last 12 weekends. (The goal is not solitude, it's freedom. Solitude is simply what's required to get there). In today's always connected world, being alone is a gift. Your time is your most valuable asset and most commitments are not value-adding so filter accordingly. One important point: Don't use solitude as an excuse to neglect oneself. Time spent alone should be a space to grow not atrophy.
- wufufufu 9y agoThere's an entire genre of science clickbait where the title is extremely noncommittal, and it gets upvoted because it jives with users worldview and self-rationalization. "See, it's ok to be alone. That one study from 2011 of pizza chain efficiency suggests there could be potential benefits to being alone." "See, it's actually a good thing to drink alcohol everyday as long as I do it 'in moderation'."
- ksk 9y agoNot only that, this is based on self-reporting and then coming up with some model that fits their own beliefs. Wasn't there recently an article that said how people don't really know themselves that well? How ironic. I have seen a lot of nerds falling for this kind of fake-science. IME the people who claim to be logical are most likely to believe this kind of BS.
- nunez 9y agoYou know, the only time that I almost regretted not making a lot of friends was when my wife and I got married recently. She had a few friends there and a ton of family. I only had family. While I'm cool with all of her friends and family, it would have been nice to have had people on my side to talk to, too. It isn't a thorn in my side; it just would've been nice.
- isaacNOW 9y agoThe only way to solve a problem is to first create a problem. 1. How do do social skills influence happiness? Answer: The potential to influence could be mathematically described as 1 + 1 = 2. Happiness, on the other hand, adds up to a single solitary state of mind: 1 + 0 = 1. Potential relies on variables.