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As far as I'm concerned, the only question that matters is "What is the chain of responsibility for making security updates get to my phone?" If the answer is

As far as I'm concerned, the only question that matters is "What is the chain of responsibility for making security updates get to my phone?" If the answer is "Google-Carrier-Me" or "Google-Vendor-Carrier-Me" and not "Google-Me", then fuck it sideways. I'm so done with Android until the update model stops being garbage.

e12e 9y ago
I'd prefer a more classical model of having a group of volunteers work with semi-independent groups of vendors - along the lines of Debian Gnu/Linux. Rather than some semi-closed Linux + Google+hw-vendor Android. I like the direction Google one + lineage Os seem to be taking us; even if the baseband are still a problem / back-door.
- madez 9y ago
  Devices with LineageOS are still stuck on old kernels and can't run mainline Linux.
  - shock 9y ago
    Which Android devices can run mainline Linux? I'm very interested to buy one, but so far I thought all Android devices ran patched Linux versions.
    - izacus 9y ago
      None, Android requires additional patches still and pretty much all the SoCs run on binary blobs.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      PostmarketOS is a Linux distribution for phones that tries to bring as much device support into mainline as possible. Device support is documented in their wiki: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices The only non-obscure device in that list that has a "Yes" in the "mainline" column seems to be the Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet.
  - e12e 9y ago
    Ah, my point was that I would prefer to run mainline Linux (among other things). And I'm hoping we'll get there. Didn't mean to imply we were there yet.
cpncrunch 9y ago
That's why I only get google/nexus devices now, as they get fast updates (I assume the pixel is the same). I've given up on Samsung.
- saghm 9y ago
  I had a Pixel XL and now have a Pixel XL 2; both get monthly security patches (including the XL, although it isn't hooked up to any carrier), generally on the 5th of each month.
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    Also have a Pixel 2 XL. Have to say it is an excellent phone. Smooth as my iPhone.
    - cpncrunch 9y ago
      The Pixel 2 XL seems like a nice phone, apart from the screen manufacturing defect that affects a large percentage of them. It appears that it got worse in phones manufactured in December. I can't find any news about whether things have improved in more recently manufactured phones. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/15/16889854/pixel-2-xl-lg-display-oled-blue-shift https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/15/16889854/p...
      - saghm 9y ago
        I didn't get mine right at launch, so this might be due to fixes, but I honestly haven't noticed anything drastic. Occasionally when the screen brightness is very low the dark colors start to blend together a little, but I haven't noticed any burn-in or retention on my display. (I also actually prefer sRGB and still have my display set to that, but there was a patch months back that let you make the color profile more vivid, and the default no longer is sRGB).
UncleMeat 9y ago
Okay. If you only have $100 to spend, what other option exists?
- BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
  None. The state of smart phones in 2018 is complete bullshit. You either get fucked in the wallet or you get fucked in maintenance. It's extremely frustrating if you aren't wealthy. The closest right now is maybe a used iPhone SE? Or maybe something old that happens to be well supported by LineageOS, if ADB is your idea of a fun time. Neither seem like great options to me. I don't have a good answer.
  - notyourwork 9y ago
    I really like my SE, replace my iPhone 6 with it due to form factor.
mindslight 9y ago
Distribution (eg LineageOS) -> you. If the option of installing your own OS isn't available, eg due to insufficient community interest or DRM-based fraud, then don't buy the brick in the first place.
srhngpr 9y ago
You should consider Android One [1] phones. There's plenty of them now, including all the latest Nokia released ones. They have vanilla Android and receive all updates directly from Google. I personally own a Xiaomi Mi A1[2] that I purchased from Amazon for under CAD$320. Solid phone and overall great specs for this price range. The only thing missing is NFC, but I don't miss it too much since the rollout of Android Pay (Google Pay) in Canada extends only to few financial institutions. [1] https://android.com/one https://android.com/one [2] https://www.amazon.ca/Xiaomi-Android-Cameras-Unlocked-Version/dp/B076HQ6FSY/ https://www.amazon.ca/Xiaomi-Android-Cameras-Unlocked-Versio...
- BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
  I had Android One phones back when they were called Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, and they stopped getting updates after 18 months. I know that things have gotten a little better on paper, but Google really has to prove itself to me now. They've been dicking around too much for too long. Fool me once, etc. Android One says "two years of upgrades", but I see no promises about patch schedule reliability. Motorola also promised to bring Android 8 to the G5+. Maybe it will happen in 2018. We'll see. That's just not good enough. Also...2 years is an impoverished standard compared to the 5 years that iPhones get.
  - a012 9y ago
    I bought a Nokia 8 because I saw it got upgraded to Oreo 8.0 then 8.1 recently. Looks like only Nokia/HMD is the most competent vendor now.
  - bfrog 9y ago
    Well seeing as you can get two new phones in those 5 years and still pay less than a single iPhone...
    - BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
      Which ones get all of their updates on time, don't cost just as much, and aren't hobbled in the US?
r3vrse 9y ago
I completely agree. I do find it interesting though, as someone who through work has deployed a lot of cell phones for field ops - the situation seems to be kind of, sort of getting better in that respect. We bought a ton of Moto G4s and G5s in last 18 months, and for the first year, I saw maybe one OS update and a couple security patches?. In the past six months, it's been noticably different (and these phones are only getting older, mind). I'm writing this on a Moto G5+ which has 7.1.1 and the January security patches, including fix for KRACK vulnerability. G4 models have the same patch level and 7.0. Updates have been deployed fairly regularly lately (if still not quite on a monthly cycle). This from Lenovo, who have historically been terrible for issuing updates in a timely manner. I wonder if the message is finally getting to these OEMs that they can't afford to let current models wither on the vine in this IT security climate, even if only for their own selfish ends (e.g. avoiding bad press). I really hope so. It's way overdue. Disclaimer: total anecdata, handle with gloves.
- BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
  > I'm writing this on a Moto G5+ which has 7.1.1 Well my G5+ says it's still on 7.0, and 7.1.1 still isn't the 8 update that was promised many months ago. > and the January security patches If you want to sleep at night, don't count the number of critical severity CVEs fixed in the February and March updates that you don't have.

e12e 9y ago

I'd prefer a more classical model of having a group of volunteers work with semi-independent groups of vendors - along the lines of Debian Gnu/Linux. Rather than some semi-closed Linux + Google+hw-vendor Android. I like the direction Google one + lineage Os seem to be taking us; even if the baseband are still a problem / back-door.

madez 9y ago
Devices with LineageOS are still stuck on old kernels and can't run mainline Linux.
- shock 9y ago
  Which Android devices can run mainline Linux? I'm very interested to buy one, but so far I thought all Android devices ran patched Linux versions.
  - izacus 9y ago
    None, Android requires additional patches still and pretty much all the SoCs run on binary blobs.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    PostmarketOS is a Linux distribution for phones that tries to bring as much device support into mainline as possible. Device support is documented in their wiki: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices The only non-obscure device in that list that has a "Yes" in the "mainline" column seems to be the Sony Xperia Z2 Tablet.
- e12e 9y ago
  Ah, my point was that I would prefer to run mainline Linux (among other things). And I'm hoping we'll get there. Didn't mean to imply we were there yet.

cpncrunch 9y ago

That's why I only get google/nexus devices now, as they get fast updates (I assume the pixel is the same). I've given up on Samsung.

saghm 9y ago
I had a Pixel XL and now have a Pixel XL 2; both get monthly security patches (including the XL, although it isn't hooked up to any carrier), generally on the 5th of each month.
- jacksmith21006 9y ago
  Also have a Pixel 2 XL. Have to say it is an excellent phone. Smooth as my iPhone.
  - cpncrunch 9y ago
    The Pixel 2 XL seems like a nice phone, apart from the screen manufacturing defect that affects a large percentage of them. It appears that it got worse in phones manufactured in December. I can't find any news about whether things have improved in more recently manufactured phones. https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/15/16889854/pixel-2-xl-lg-display-oled-blue-shift https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/15/16889854/p...
    - saghm 9y ago
      I didn't get mine right at launch, so this might be due to fixes, but I honestly haven't noticed anything drastic. Occasionally when the screen brightness is very low the dark colors start to blend together a little, but I haven't noticed any burn-in or retention on my display. (I also actually prefer sRGB and still have my display set to that, but there was a patch months back that let you make the color profile more vivid, and the default no longer is sRGB).

UncleMeat 9y ago

Okay. If you only have $100 to spend, what other option exists?

BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
None. The state of smart phones in 2018 is complete bullshit. You either get fucked in the wallet or you get fucked in maintenance. It's extremely frustrating if you aren't wealthy. The closest right now is maybe a used iPhone SE? Or maybe something old that happens to be well supported by LineageOS, if ADB is your idea of a fun time. Neither seem like great options to me. I don't have a good answer.
- notyourwork 9y ago
  I really like my SE, replace my iPhone 6 with it due to form factor.

mindslight 9y ago

Distribution (eg LineageOS) -> you. If the option of installing your own OS isn't available, eg due to insufficient community interest or DRM-based fraud, then don't buy the brick in the first place.

srhngpr 9y ago

You should consider Android One [1] phones. There's plenty of them now, including all the latest Nokia released ones. They have vanilla Android and receive all updates directly from Google. I personally own a Xiaomi Mi A1[2] that I purchased from Amazon for under CAD$320. Solid phone and overall great specs for this price range. The only thing missing is NFC, but I don't miss it too much since the rollout of Android Pay (Google Pay) in Canada extends only to few financial institutions. [1] https://android.com/one https://android.com/one [2] https://www.amazon.ca/Xiaomi-Android-Cameras-Unlocked-Version/dp/B076HQ6FSY/ https://www.amazon.ca/Xiaomi-Android-Cameras-Unlocked-Versio...

BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
I had Android One phones back when they were called Nexus 4 and Nexus 5, and they stopped getting updates after 18 months. I know that things have gotten a little better on paper, but Google really has to prove itself to me now. They've been dicking around too much for too long. Fool me once, etc. Android One says "two years of upgrades", but I see no promises about patch schedule reliability. Motorola also promised to bring Android 8 to the G5+. Maybe it will happen in 2018. We'll see. That's just not good enough. Also...2 years is an impoverished standard compared to the 5 years that iPhones get.
- a012 9y ago
  I bought a Nokia 8 because I saw it got upgraded to Oreo 8.0 then 8.1 recently. Looks like only Nokia/HMD is the most competent vendor now.
- bfrog 9y ago
  Well seeing as you can get two new phones in those 5 years and still pay less than a single iPhone...
  - BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
    Which ones get all of their updates on time, don't cost just as much, and aren't hobbled in the US?

r3vrse 9y ago

I completely agree. I do find it interesting though, as someone who through work has deployed a lot of cell phones for field ops - the situation seems to be kind of, sort of getting better in that respect. We bought a ton of Moto G4s and G5s in last 18 months, and for the first year, I saw maybe one OS update and a couple security patches?. In the past six months, it's been noticably different (and these phones are only getting older, mind). I'm writing this on a Moto G5+ which has 7.1.1 and the January security patches, including fix for KRACK vulnerability. G4 models have the same patch level and 7.0. Updates have been deployed fairly regularly lately (if still not quite on a monthly cycle). This from Lenovo, who have historically been terrible for issuing updates in a timely manner. I wonder if the message is finally getting to these OEMs that they can't afford to let current models wither on the vine in this IT security climate, even if only for their own selfish ends (e.g. avoiding bad press). I really hope so. It's way overdue. Disclaimer: total anecdata, handle with gloves.

BugsJustFindMe 9y ago
> I'm writing this on a Moto G5+ which has 7.1.1 Well my G5+ says it's still on 7.0, and 7.1.1 still isn't the 8 update that was promised many months ago. > and the January security patches If you want to sleep at night, don't count the number of critical severity CVEs fixed in the February and March updates that you don't have.