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Is the issue a lack of jobs or a lack of jobs that pay enough to prosper in our society? BLS has the mean annual income for a truck driver at $43,000 (https://

by knz 9y ago

Is the issue a lack of jobs or a lack of jobs that pay enough to prosper in our society? BLS has the mean annual income for a truck driver at $43,000 (https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes533032.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes533032.htm) versus ~ $22,000 for a personal care assistant (https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home-health-aides-and-personal-care-aides.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/home-health-aides-and-per...). That's a huge difference, especially in a country with the health care system we have.

EggsOnToast 9y ago
Those numbers make sense at a glance. A truck driver, despite the popular image, more closely resembles specialized work than un-specialized. There are specific skill and documentation requirements to become a Truck driver. The healthcare work you linked to just requires a high-school diploma and no certs, if it's a job like caring for the elderly then the main factor driving up the wage is a shortage of people willing to deal with the challenges of working with an elderly person which can include rude or mentally ill families/customers, excrement, and being comfortable cleaning and/or bathing another human being.
- icelancer 9y ago
  Trucking is absolutely skilled work. It's crazy that people think it isn't.
- noobermin 9y ago
  You start by saying how a personal care assistant is rather unspecialized work and then go on to ruminate on the peculiarities of the job that most people wouldn't want to deal with. Why isn't trucking an unskilled job just with negative features (long hours alone, danger to health given the erratic hours) too?
  - EggsOnToast 9y ago
    >You start by saying how a personal care assistant is rather unspecialized work and then go on to ruminate on the peculiarities of the job that most people wouldn't want to deal with. Correct. Being willing to endure undesirable work isn't usually included in the definition of skilled labor unless that tenacity is accompanied by another requisite skill or certification. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't a socially valuable skill, just that given the bar for entry it isn't surprising the wage is that low. >Why isn't trucking an unskilled job just with negative features (long hours alone, danger to health given the erratic hours) too? Because you've skipped over the training and licensing required to legally operate as a truck driver. You need a Commercial Drivers License if nothing else and many states require the completion of specialized courses before awarding an applicant their CDL. That CDL represents a specialized skill-set without which a person simply won't be permitted to operate as a trucker. Physical endurance and mental tenacity are critical traits in this instance too but they're far from being enough to get you hired. Edit: Something else I glossed over, but which seems relevant because this is predominantly a tech oriented forum is that the average Cost of Living in America is in line with the wage being paid to the Home Health Aide. It might not be enough for San Francisco or a coastal area, but it's enough in general to pay rent and save some money on the side for additional schooling or whatever purpose appeals.
nvahalik 9y ago
I think the main problem with the personal care assistant isn’t so much the pay is so low but rather it’s hard for people to actually pay someone full time (or even part time) to care for someone.
- dizzystar 9y ago
  A full-time care taker is also often living in the house. So, even if they are are only getting paid $22k, that money isn't really going to any expenses. They are likely getting paid more than that anyways.
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    if 22000 is the mean they are equally like to be getting paid less. (well actually if it's the median it's equally likely but for practical purposes...)
  - nvahalik 9y ago
    I'm not sure how "often" but some do. There might be people with special arrangements but if you are like the people I interact with then you probably engage with an assisted living agency for anywhere from $18-$30/hr. Let's take the low number as an example. $18 * 24 * 365 = $157.7K per year. How many people can afford $150k just for care? Not very many. And $18/hr is on the very low end of the spectrum. If you're at $30+/hr that's $250K+ on up not including medical, insurance, etc. IME, caretakers are normally paid out-of-pocket, too. It's expensive business, especially if you have to do it for any period of time.
    - nopinsight 9y ago
      Assuming the actual work to care for an elderly with non-full-time need is up to 8 hours a day, paid at $12 per hour, the cost would be 8 * 365 * $12 = $35,040 per year. Other family members can hopefully cover the rest of hours if needed. My question: What are the benefits of going through an agency when the cost could be over 100% higher than hiring someone directly? Hiring direct allows you to screen in person and makes sure there is a good fit of personality and other factors too.

by knz 9y ago

EggsOnToast 9y ago

Those numbers make sense at a glance. A truck driver, despite the popular image, more closely resembles specialized work than un-specialized. There are specific skill and documentation requirements to become a Truck driver. The healthcare work you linked to just requires a high-school diploma and no certs, if it's a job like caring for the elderly then the main factor driving up the wage is a shortage of people willing to deal with the challenges of working with an elderly person which can include rude or mentally ill families/customers, excrement, and being comfortable cleaning and/or bathing another human being.

icelancer 9y ago
Trucking is absolutely skilled work. It's crazy that people think it isn't.
noobermin 9y ago
You start by saying how a personal care assistant is rather unspecialized work and then go on to ruminate on the peculiarities of the job that most people wouldn't want to deal with. Why isn't trucking an unskilled job just with negative features (long hours alone, danger to health given the erratic hours) too?
- EggsOnToast 9y ago
  >You start by saying how a personal care assistant is rather unspecialized work and then go on to ruminate on the peculiarities of the job that most people wouldn't want to deal with. Correct. Being willing to endure undesirable work isn't usually included in the definition of skilled labor unless that tenacity is accompanied by another requisite skill or certification. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't a socially valuable skill, just that given the bar for entry it isn't surprising the wage is that low. >Why isn't trucking an unskilled job just with negative features (long hours alone, danger to health given the erratic hours) too? Because you've skipped over the training and licensing required to legally operate as a truck driver. You need a Commercial Drivers License if nothing else and many states require the completion of specialized courses before awarding an applicant their CDL. That CDL represents a specialized skill-set without which a person simply won't be permitted to operate as a trucker. Physical endurance and mental tenacity are critical traits in this instance too but they're far from being enough to get you hired. Edit: Something else I glossed over, but which seems relevant because this is predominantly a tech oriented forum is that the average Cost of Living in America is in line with the wage being paid to the Home Health Aide. It might not be enough for San Francisco or a coastal area, but it's enough in general to pay rent and save some money on the side for additional schooling or whatever purpose appeals.

nvahalik 9y ago

I think the main problem with the personal care assistant isn’t so much the pay is so low but rather it’s hard for people to actually pay someone full time (or even part time) to care for someone.

dizzystar 9y ago
A full-time care taker is also often living in the house. So, even if they are are only getting paid $22k, that money isn't really going to any expenses. They are likely getting paid more than that anyways.
- Avshalom 9y ago
  if 22000 is the mean they are equally like to be getting paid less. (well actually if it's the median it's equally likely but for practical purposes...)
- nvahalik 9y ago
  I'm not sure how "often" but some do. There might be people with special arrangements but if you are like the people I interact with then you probably engage with an assisted living agency for anywhere from $18-$30/hr. Let's take the low number as an example. $18 * 24 * 365 = $157.7K per year. How many people can afford $150k just for care? Not very many. And $18/hr is on the very low end of the spectrum. If you're at $30+/hr that's $250K+ on up not including medical, insurance, etc. IME, caretakers are normally paid out-of-pocket, too. It's expensive business, especially if you have to do it for any period of time.
  - nopinsight 9y ago
    Assuming the actual work to care for an elderly with non-full-time need is up to 8 hours a day, paid at $12 per hour, the cost would be 8 * 365 * $12 = $35,040 per year. Other family members can hopefully cover the rest of hours if needed. My question: What are the benefits of going through an agency when the cost could be over 100% higher than hiring someone directly? Hiring direct allows you to screen in person and makes sure there is a good fit of personality and other factors too.