5 ms·
I feel like they re-invented the train. :-)
by bluetwo 9y ago
I feel like they re-invented the train. :-)
- julbaxter 9y agoWithout the rails.
- mtgx 9y agoWill Uber pay a bigger portion of the road repair taxes? Especially considering truckers already pay a disproportionately lower tax compared to the impact they have on the roads.
- lambda_lover 9y agoDo they? I mean, trucks are hardly gas efficient, and aren't most roads maintained (supposedly) via gas taxes? The question, I suppose, is how much harder they are on the roads relative to their fuel efficiency.
- lsy 9y agoFuel efficiency decreases generally relative to the surface area of the front of the vehicle, where road damage increases with the mass of the vehicle. So a long, heavy vehicle like a truck is indeed harder on the road relative to their fuel efficiency.
- andechs 9y ago> road damage increases with the mass Road damage actually increases proportional to mass^4 - trucks cause exponentially more damage than cars. https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weight-vs-road-damage-levels/ https://streets.mn/2016/07/07/chart-of-the-day-vehicle-weigh...
- panopticon 9y ago> I mean, trucks are hardly gas efficient, and aren't most roads maintained (supposedly) via gas taxes? The gas tax hasn't been increased since 1993 and accounts for less than half of road funding.
- emodendroket 9y agoPerhaps on a related note, our roads are in embarrassing condition.
- hfdgiutdryg 9y agoaren't most roads maintained (supposedly) via gas taxes? The last time I looked into this, studies put it at something like 50% - 80% of costs paid for by fuel taxes. It's hard to come up with a straight figure because of so many levels of intermingled tax funds.
- snaveed 9y agoThis represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the rationale for taxation. There is a societal benefit to efficient means of transportation. You, along with most other people, are reaping the benefits of truckers using roads to deliver cargo.
- neolefty 9y agoNot including externalities--such as road maintenance--distorts the market. Better to capture them all so that different forms of transportation can compete "fairly". That is, without hidden subsidies.
- mempko 9y agoThe rationale for taxation has changed over time. We are no longer on the gold standard, so the reasons for taxation are different. But overall the reason for taxation hasn't changed, which is to maintain the demand for the central money supply. This of course is the rationale for sovereign entities with their own money supply like the United States. The rationale for taxes for towns, counties, etc is completely different.
- undersuit 9y agoIn the United States trucks are already taxed at higher rates because of their weights. That's why we have weight stations scattered throughout our highways though automation and technology have reduced their need. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weigh_station
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y agoI think there's still an argument that it's not enough, as road wear varies with the 4th power of tire load. Ultimately time is another factor in road wear and breakdown, so utilization rates matter, but on balance freight traffic is subsidized.
- astrodust 9y agoI'm sure Uber will come up with some bullshit reason why they don't have 'trucks' and don't have to pay taxes.
- stale2002 9y agoThat sounds like a problem with the trucking industry, not Uber. So the trucking industry as a whole should be the thing being taxed more.
- joncrane 9y agoIsn't HN particularly fond of mentioning that one of the pillars of Uber's business model is to externalize costs? So no...
- natch 9y agoTrains are much less flexible. They have more constraints on their schedules, they have to share tracks, they only go certain places, you have to stop the entire train with all its freight in order to add any more freight, the unloading and loading points are much harder to scale.
- r00fus 9y agoLaying rail is fraught with property rights to build the track. Roads are like rails that are already paved everywhere (with the significant addition to climate-impacting gas emissions). Rails are easier in Europe because less of the land is owned by private interests making eminent domain easier.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 9y agoWhen trains become competitive with road transport, maybe we should move more to using trains. Until then, we won't, and we shouldn't. (If it's a matter of externalities/hidden subsidies, then the costs of these externalities must be brought to the entity causing them, e.g. via taxes.) I don't know why (in Germany) a long-distance bus is much cheaper than a train (from/to the same city), but it is. We shouldn't be trying to shift traffic to rail unless there's a good reason beyond "it feels good" for it. If it is better for the environment, I'd like to see a "citation" (not in the form of research, but in the form of well-justified taxes/tolls/... that transform this into a matter of cost).
- ghaff 9y agoIn the US, trains are for long distance and, in fact, handle a significant portion of the long distance transport that would otherwise be handled by trucks. Most trucking is (relatively) local as it is.
- Johnny555 9y agoIf trucks had to pay the full cost of road wear, then trains would be a lot more attractive for long hauls -- road wear is proportional to the 4th power of axle weight [1] An 80,000 pound truck has 8X the axle weigh of a 2000 pound car, so should be paying 4096 times more road taxes than the car. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating#Importance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating#Impor...
- Dylan16807 9y agoSort of. It looks like a car does about 4x more damage per axle because of using a single narrow tire[1]. If you compare a pretty typical 4000 pound car to that maxed-out truck, you would then only get a 64x difference (maybe closer to 100 depending on weight distribution). Oh and then multiply by the number of axles. It would be interesting to look at the costs and savings of 6 or 8 axles in the back. There's plenty of room to fit, and you could drop wear by a factor of 10. Let's also not forget that the truck probably has over a hundred times as much payload as an average car. [1] http://www.nvfnorden.org/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=601 http://www.nvfnorden.org/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=601
- kirykl 9y agoRailroads have monopoly pricing power, this opens the door to competition