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Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native cou
by diego_moita 9y ago
Disclaimer: I am a former Brazilian. I am what in Brazil is called in pejorative terms "vira-lata" (stray dog), someone that fell out of love for his native country. Because a lot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes.
This project is nothing more than a sharper and better diagnosis of topical symptoms. Unfortunately, the underlying disease remains without treatment. And if you allow me to explain such disease bluntly, here it is: the Brazilian voter is astonishingly stupid. Brazilians vote very, very badly. Politicians with a long and explicit history of corruption are routinely re-elected and remain very popular (e.g: Maluf, Sarney, Calheiros, Collor, Lula and almost everyone in the 3 big parties: PMDB, PSDB and PT).
There is even a standard justification for this behaviour, people say "rouba mas faz" (he steals but gets things done).
Like in most of the 3rd world and countries with authoritarian history, the overwhelming majority of the Brazilian voters don't understand how corruption, nepotism, patronage and incompetence affects them. I bet Turkey, Russia, Poland and Hungary are the same. Democracy goes far beyond the formal institutions, you need a civic heart, a belief within every citizen's mind that the public good matters a lot and affects everyone. In most 3rd world countries people just don't "get" this.
- ymgch 9y agoAnother 'vira-lata' here. Thinking about braziL causes me nausea. Hope that 'country' be better but I really doubt.
- Apaec 9y agoIn Peru we have an equivalent phrase for "rouba mas faz", the "roba pero hace obra", also a popular justification that got a corrupt major elected for Lima, even when major media outlets showed proofs of corruption.
- TremendousJudge 9y agoWe're talking about a country that gave 1.35 million votes to a literal clown [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca
- notahacker 9y agoIt's not a uniquely Brazilian thing. Say hi to the former Mayor of Hartlepool, a monkey-suited football mascot elected on a manifesto promising free bananas http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1965569.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1965569.stm
- neves 9y agoThe literal clown is a decent deputy, even above average. He is as educated as the majority of the the population. He was present all the days that the Congress opened. Your talk if full of prejudice.
- lbrito 9y agoThe world's largest economic power and largest democracy, aka United States, elected a Western movie actor and a Reality TV star as presidents. The clown pales in comparison.
- dashoffset 9y agoSorry, but there is no comparison. None of them were elected by saying: "Vote Reagan (or Trump). It can't get worse than this".
- schoen 9y agoContext: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca#2010_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiririca#2010_elections
- pathseeker 9y agoThe people that voted for Trump didn't vote for him because he was a reality TV star.
- onetimemanytime 9y ago>>Like in most of the 3rd world ...voters don't understand how corruption, nepotism, patronage and incompetence affects them. All the above in US is called "lobbying" and it's legal, so you really can't jail anyone for it. USA voters don't do much better, don't worry. We just have a printing machine that churns out new dollars at record pace so we face no debt deadlines.
- lopmotr 9y agoIt's not quite the same. Lobbyists money pays for election campaigns to persuade citizens to vote for the lobbied politician. Traditional corruption involves doing something wrong/unfair/criminal for personal profit.
- TremendousJudge 9y agoBrazil is much, much worse off than the US. There the corruption goes all the way to the lowest levels of government. In the US local politicians don't pay a couple of bucks to a thousand dirt poor voters to vote in the county elections so they can win. In Brazil this happens everywhere.
- muthdra 9y agoAs the nephew of a former mayor of a small town of about 5k people in Brazil, I heard most people who get into office here can't possibly make back in salary all the money they spent buying votes before the election so the system itself usually removes the least corrupt candidates automatically.
- neves 9y agoIt is very usual to buy votes in USA: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/selling-votes-is-common-type-of-election-fraud/2012/10/01/f8f5045a-071d-11e2-81ba-ffe35a7b6542_story.html?utm_term=.747222acd354 https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/selling... "The price of one bona fide, registered American vote varies from place to place. But it is rarely more than a tank of gas." A good book that descibes it is "Washington, D.C: A Novel (Narratives of Empire)." of Gore Vidal.
- ionforce 9y agoPode explicar a tradução ou conexão para as palavras, vira e lita. Não significam "look" e "can"? Não sou brasileiro.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- random42_ 9y agoLike the others already explained, "vira-latas" is a portuguese term for a stray dog and the idea that they need to flip trash cans to try to find food. However, there is also an expression (whose origin was also explained) that means "Mongrel complex (Complexo de vira-Lata in Portuguese), which is an expression used to refer to a collective inferiority complex felt by some Brazilian people in comparison to Europe or the United States."[0] Contrary to what was said here, the term coined by Nelson Rodrigues was not exclusive related to soccer. According to him: "By "Mongrel Complex" I mean the inferiority in which Brazilians put themselves, voluntarily, in comparison to the rest of the world. Brazilians are the reverse Narcissus, who spit in their own image. Here is the truth: we can't find personal or historical pretexts for self-esteem."[0] [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_complex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongrel_complex
- triangleman 9y agoInteresting concept, the "reverse Narcissus", especially in this case. Because you see, in the same breath as they complain about their country, Brazilians will tell you that "God is a Brazilian". Perhaps jingoism and mongrelism are two sides of the same coin. It would certainly explain how Trump got elected after a campaign based on complaining about his own country.
- random42_ 9y agoIt's an interesting fact--anecdotally, of course--that as much as they complain about the country, they won't let anyone from outside to do the same thing.
- 9y ago
- justaguyhere 9y agolot of people in this thread are patriotic Brazilians I anticipate a lot of downvotes Anyone else find over-the-top portrayal of patriotism annoying? Every time there is someone on the TV talking about "hard working and patriotic" (I don't even have a TV, only catch a glimpse at dunkin donuts and such) even when the topic on hand has nothing to do with hard work or patriotism. You are making a very valid point, but you literally had to start your comment saying you anticipate downvotes. It has become that bad.
- diego_moita 9y agoWell, frankly I believe it is a biological trait, an unavoidable natural instinct manipulated by propaganda. Humans and their ancestors survived for several thousands of years in bands and tribes with between 10 and 50 individuals. Social cohesion and collaboration among them was essential for survival in confrontation with other animals or tribes fighting for the same resources (or females). It is unavoidable that evolution shaped them to develop a desperate wish to "belong" to a group. Some call it tribalism. Nations just grab this tribalism and turn it into ideological justification for everything as in: "my country, right or wrong". Religions, political affiliations, corporations and sport associations use that trick too.
- getcrunk 9y agoMost voters in most countries are stupid. See the 2016 US election
- oh_sigh 9y agoYeah, I can't believe a majority of voters went for HRC.
- lopmotr 9y agoNot the 2016 election, all of them. People only vote for the most well funded candidates, which typically means the most corrupted. There are a few exceptions of privately funded campaigns but they didn't win.
- hugocbp 9y agoThe difference here is that voting is compulsory and a much bigger part of the population can barely read, let alone judge more complex situations. In the US, the "stupid" (as you call them) voters can stay at home if they are uninterested in the election. In the very least, this makes the voters be more involved. Here, a lot of people only remember they need to vote when they try to buy beer on the Saturday before the election and they can't or when they turn the TV to watch their soap operas and see the mandatory political programs instead (and turn it off instead of watching).
- julioneander 9y agoYes, and they will vote on the person that had the biggest budget on their campaign most of the time, because that's the person they will see on the television or outdoors. A lot of the corruption in Brazil is for stealing money to spend on political campaigns.
- pathseeker 9y agoHow so? It seems your choice was a potentially corrupt (FBI email investigation announcement weeks before election) status-quo candidate or a populist outsider.
- dataker 9y agoI am also a vira-lata, and couldn't agree more. Brazil, like other 3rd world countries, has an endemic cultural problem that hinders economic, social or technological progress. You can "fight" corruption, but if it's part of your culture, it will always find a way back. Congrats for the project, but you'd really need to rewrite 500 years of history to make Brazil a livable place.
- pedro_hab 9y agoYeah, there is a saying that “Politics is downstream from culture”, the Brazilian culture does not help. I don't have much hope.
- binthere 9y agoI could probably be considered a "vira-lata" too as probably many other Brazilians that lost hope at their countries. But I welcome any initiative from people that did not. I think that a "better diagnosis" is a step forward to a better "treatment". I think that the stupid voter behavior is not part of the DNA of Brazilians. It is something that can change even if it looks very hard to do it. A lot of Brazilians are actually very tired of corruption, they know pretty well how bad things can get when politicians steal public money regardless of their level of education. They know it is that bad. Teachers don't get paid, policemen going on strikes, bridges falling, economy in shambles, etc. It affects their daily lives and it keeps getting worse. I think that the "Rouba mas faz" might be true in some places but not everywhere. Now, think about it: you feel hopeless when you know that it's a problem but you don't know any better how to vote. How could you know? How can you trust 100% on someone else's integrity to represent you, specially in Brazil? It is at this point that the problem needs to be tackled from multiple angles. One of them being this initiative. Changing legislation, which happened, in regards to how campaign are run and who is eligible to become a candidate, punishing those who stole public money (Maluf is still in jail, Cabral is in jail, no everyone is in jail but justice is working now).