5 ms·

"if you’re a consumer, you are, by definition, not a hacker." Does this not make sense to anyone else?

jrockway 16y ago
It makes perfect sense. Consumers consume. Hackers create. See also: iPad vs. Netbook. iPads are strictly for consuming other people's creations. Netbooks are open-ended.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  >It makes perfect sense. Consumers consume. Hackers create. So if you write your own OS then you build your own computer from scratch, dig out your own toilet, build your own house, make your own clothing, grow your own food? I'm certain that most hackers are also consumers.
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  Consumers are to Hackers =/= iPads are to Netbooks. Hackers can still be consumers. In fact, I challenge you to find a single Hacker who doesn't also consume. Consumers can be hackers. Hackers are consumers.
  - jrockway 16y ago
    Hackers also read everything way too literally. A consumer is someone who mostly consumes and mostly doesn't create. Everyone creates, be it an email to their friend, or a picture for their photo album. Everyone consumes, perhaps reading a book from time to time or watching a movie. But some devices push you in one direction, and others push you in the other. Log into a Linux box with xmonad, emacs, and rxvt-unicode, and you have no choice but to create. That makes you a hacker. Get an iPad, and with easily-available movie downloads and an infinite supply of blogs and no way to enter text efficiently, and you aren't going to be doing much creating. That makes you a consumer.
    - LaGrange 16y ago
      "Log into a Linux box with xmonad, emacs, and rxvt-unicode, and you have no choice but to create. That makes you a hacker." And, assuming you're the same beginner who doesn't know what to do with a Mac (the comparison was with a mac), stare at the display with no clue about how to start an app. Log into a Mac, with iLife with Garage Band (what? Creation != programming), easily installable XCode and cheap, good graphic programs and you can create whatever you want. By forcing people to code you're not creating "hacker" nor "creators". You're replacing musicians, graphic artists, designers and other creatives with frustrated code monkeys. "Get an iPad, and with easily-available movie downloads and an infinite supply of blogs and no way to enter text efficiently, and you aren't going to be doing much creating. That makes you a consumer." Also, with graphic software, many ways to relax, and a Mac or PC that you sync to. And a system that gets out of your way so that you can do what you want, possibly something more interesting that 10kline .vimrc. I'm going to go the other way - for most people Linux is counter-creative. Instead of either making that (possibly stupid) clip, they have to configure the damn thing and somehow get the network drivers and the touchpad work at the same time. Effectively, they are consuming forum posts. Instead of relaxing by consumption they get frustrated, the only skill that's really developed is hard-core toner replacement and desktop computer troubleshooting. In contrast, MacOS (usually) gets out of their way, even brings some fun, creative software OOTB. And the iPad is all about relaxing and finding fun stuff. You know, inspiration. Linux is good for people who actually know what they want to do with it. So is an Arduino, a guitar and a large block of marble.
      - jrockway 16y ago
        Whoa there! My post was not some slight against non-programmers or Mac users. To make help make my argument clear, I picked two extremes of creation and consumption -- you aren't going to be buying anything from iTMS on that Emacs machine, and you aren't going to be reprogramming your OS on the fly on your iPad. The idea was to show contrast. I also wasn't making a value judgement. (Also, nice description of Linux from 15 years ago. Do Macs have non-cooperative multitasking yet?)
    - jasonlotito 16y ago
      > Hackers also read everything way too literally. How true is that! =) I think the problem is your making it sound like a hacker or a consumer is just a person, rather than a person using a particular tool at the time.
- mikeryan 16y ago
  There's nothing mutually exclusive about hackers vs. consumers. I both hack and consume in prodigious amounts.
- Skroob 16y ago
  Why do people believe that the iPad can't be used to create anything? There's apps available for all kinds of creative endeavors, and more appearing every day.

It makes perfect sense. Consumers consume. Hackers create. See also: iPad vs. Netbook. iPads are strictly for consuming other people's creations. Netbooks are open-ended.

pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>It makes perfect sense. Consumers consume. Hackers create. So if you write your own OS then you build your own computer from scratch, dig out your own toilet, build your own house, make your own clothing, grow your own food? I'm certain that most hackers are also consumers.
jasonlotito 16y ago
Consumers are to Hackers =/= iPads are to Netbooks. Hackers can still be consumers. In fact, I challenge you to find a single Hacker who doesn't also consume. Consumers can be hackers. Hackers are consumers.
- jrockway 16y ago
  Hackers also read everything way too literally. A consumer is someone who mostly consumes and mostly doesn't create. Everyone creates, be it an email to their friend, or a picture for their photo album. Everyone consumes, perhaps reading a book from time to time or watching a movie. But some devices push you in one direction, and others push you in the other. Log into a Linux box with xmonad, emacs, and rxvt-unicode, and you have no choice but to create. That makes you a hacker. Get an iPad, and with easily-available movie downloads and an infinite supply of blogs and no way to enter text efficiently, and you aren't going to be doing much creating. That makes you a consumer.
  - LaGrange 16y ago
    "Log into a Linux box with xmonad, emacs, and rxvt-unicode, and you have no choice but to create. That makes you a hacker." And, assuming you're the same beginner who doesn't know what to do with a Mac (the comparison was with a mac), stare at the display with no clue about how to start an app. Log into a Mac, with iLife with Garage Band (what? Creation != programming), easily installable XCode and cheap, good graphic programs and you can create whatever you want. By forcing people to code you're not creating "hacker" nor "creators". You're replacing musicians, graphic artists, designers and other creatives with frustrated code monkeys. "Get an iPad, and with easily-available movie downloads and an infinite supply of blogs and no way to enter text efficiently, and you aren't going to be doing much creating. That makes you a consumer." Also, with graphic software, many ways to relax, and a Mac or PC that you sync to. And a system that gets out of your way so that you can do what you want, possibly something more interesting that 10kline .vimrc. I'm going to go the other way - for most people Linux is counter-creative. Instead of either making that (possibly stupid) clip, they have to configure the damn thing and somehow get the network drivers and the touchpad work at the same time. Effectively, they are consuming forum posts. Instead of relaxing by consumption they get frustrated, the only skill that's really developed is hard-core toner replacement and desktop computer troubleshooting. In contrast, MacOS (usually) gets out of their way, even brings some fun, creative software OOTB. And the iPad is all about relaxing and finding fun stuff. You know, inspiration. Linux is good for people who actually know what they want to do with it. So is an Arduino, a guitar and a large block of marble.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Whoa there! My post was not some slight against non-programmers or Mac users. To make help make my argument clear, I picked two extremes of creation and consumption -- you aren't going to be buying anything from iTMS on that Emacs machine, and you aren't going to be reprogramming your OS on the fly on your iPad. The idea was to show contrast. I also wasn't making a value judgement. (Also, nice description of Linux from 15 years ago. Do Macs have non-cooperative multitasking yet?)
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    > Hackers also read everything way too literally. How true is that! =) I think the problem is your making it sound like a hacker or a consumer is just a person, rather than a person using a particular tool at the time.
mikeryan 16y ago
There's nothing mutually exclusive about hackers vs. consumers. I both hack and consume in prodigious amounts.
Skroob 16y ago
Why do people believe that the iPad can't be used to create anything? There's apps available for all kinds of creative endeavors, and more appearing every day.