6 ms·

I think loneliness is especially bad for men as we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions, not seek medical attention when we need it, a

by colmvp 9y ago

I think loneliness is especially bad for men as we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions, not seek medical attention when we need it, and generally have less intimate discussions with friends as compared to women. So a lot of men end up suffering loneliness for a long period of time without any emotional support. It feels like one of those things which creeps on you, and before you know it, you aren't attending social events, you don't have much energy or confidence, your perception of others becomes skewed, and it all seems pretty helpless. Regardless of whether its church or a weekly Meetup.com event or a Recreational Sports League, there is an immense benefit to going somewhere where one finds fulfillment while incrementally getting to know a community. Just by showing up and not being a dick, strangers become friends, and often times even more. It's something I always recommend to people in their 30s who are finding it hard to make friends after college. My friend doesn't believe in the Buddhist religion but has attended the same temple for many years, and it's been incredibly helpful for him in terms of making strong social connections.

drdeadringer 9y ago
> It feels like one of those things which creeps on you, and before you know it, you aren't attending social events, you don't have much energy or confidence, your perception of others becomes skewed, and it all seems pretty helpless. "How did you get lonely?" "Gradually, then suddenly." ... I wonder if there aren't many aspects of life like this.
- hestipod 9y ago
  "Gradually then suddenly" This phrase, it's context, and your follow up thought have affected me in a raw and uncomofortable way I wasn't expecting today.
  - drdeadringer 9y ago
    And similar to yours to me. Many thanks.
  - marnett 9y ago
    In what ways? I'm interested to hear what it made you think of.
    - hestipod 9y ago
      It just connected with the losses and changes of getting older and less self sufficient, and how those have been magnified in me since I was struck down before 30 with serious health issues so I experienced them earlier than I should have. It's hard to believe how long its been looking back. I feel my life sort of froze in many ways and the wounds most definitely haven't healed with time. "Gradually, then suddenly" just seems to fit this and so many aspects of life. I suspect many people can relate.
      - marnett 9y ago
        Given that perspective it is quite a somber phrase. Assuming you are living in America, do you feel like the standard 'things you should care about' package offered to us by government, cultural-shaping institutions, and the economy-shaping institutions is rather lack-luster when the standard distractions do not apply? I guess more specifically, given the variance off the 'standard american life' you have experienced, most of the 'escapes' don't quite fit the mold of your experiences. I know there isn't really a question there - I guess, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts on those ideas.
        hestipod 9y ago
        I'm always afraid of the negative attention with such political statements, but I most definitely feel left behind by America and am not a fan of it's priorities. I did what I was "supposed" to, paid into the system, worked hard, and when I needed help it wasn't there and common things available to me before, like medical care/insurance, were suddenly out of reach. I find that incomprehensible in a first world nation. I have seen friends in similar positions in countries with robust social systems rebuild their lives and live/contribute again in ways not possible without that healthcare/education/living support. I lived abroad for some time and was able to access medical care there I simply cannot afford here but wasn't able to emigrate fully. The "rugged individualism" attitude of the culture doesn't seem to have much room for people once they lose their independence whether it's their fault or not...which frankly I don't think should matter...but especially hurts since I am not at fault for my situation. I gave up arguing about it a long time ago as I've never succeeded in changing anyone's view and just get depressed at the debate. Only suffering it directly seems to ever change people, and some of those people still seem to attack other victims rather than the cause of the issue. It's a bigger problem than I can affect but I hope one day people aren't left behind in such ways.
- legulere 9y ago
  I checked this out as I heard the phrase before. "Gradually, then suddenly" seems to be originally a quote from Hemmingway in The Sun Also Rises about bankrupcy: “How did you go bankrupt?" - "Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” It is quoted then in the context of depression in the movie Prozac Nation: "Gradually, then suddenly." That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.
  - marnett 9y ago
    Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises is an amazing novel for anyone who has not read it. Some truly amazing characters and social dynamics are laid out in that book. I finished it in one sitting when I read it a few years back, it was a page-turner in a weird, unmatched kind of way.
  - trophycase 9y ago
    Interesting little piece of trivia. I'm on vacation and just finished reading The Sun Also Rises 2 days ago and I'm now reading "The Awakening" by Kate Chopin and just encountered this passage: "They became intimate and friendly by imperceptible degrees, and then by leaps." Which reads very similar to the Hemmingway passage. Maybe he stole it ;)
innocentoldguy 9y ago
I agree with you regarding the benefits of finding a group to meet with. I was in an accident last year and shattered my spine. The place I worked fired me the very next day, right after I got out of surgery. I've spent a year now cooped up in my house. I've never been a very social individual, but a couple of months ago, I wandered down to a church building that is about a block from my house. The people were welcoming and I found myself going down there more and more frequently. They started offering free classes, about three weeks ago, on how to run your own business. Since it has been nigh unto impossible to find regular work, I started going to the classes to work on starting my own thing. I wasn't aware there was a problem with loneliness in my life until I started taking those classes and making friends with the other people attending. It has made an incredible difference.
owebmaster 9y ago
> I think loneliness is especially bad for men as we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions Don't put the blame on the victims. Modern society doesn't discuss and give relevance to the problems of individual men in the way it does to women's problems.
- iak8god 9y ago
  How about "[men] are conditioned to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions"
  - eeZah7Ux 9y ago
    Much better. "we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions" sounds like it's nature rather than nurture. [EDIT: why the downvotes, again?]
    - owebmaster 9y ago
      I'm asking the same myself. But we all know the answer. HN is a dictatorial space that uses censorship to unify its opinion in a liberal banner. If you have progressive ideas you are out of the club.
      - dang 9y ago
        That's not true! lots of people here have progressive ideas. Lots of people on the other sides, too, of course. The community is divided because society is divided. It is true that the political battle style of comment tends to get flagged and downvoted, because it's bad for the intellectual curiosity that HN exists for. But it's still possible to have thoughtful conversation about such ideas; it just unfortunately tends to degenerate quickly into not-so-thoughtful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - owebmaster 9y ago
    How about "men have difficult lifes the same way women have so this creates problems that we should be better prepared to discuss and solve?"
rb808 9y ago
I saw mentioned here that men are quick to give up friends, with work & family & wife's social calendar there really isn't much time for anything else. I need to make an effort to make friends cause really all I ever see is work colleagues and other parents of our children's friends.
- Pigo 9y ago
  I had a family for almost ten years, and then suddenly I only had part of my family once in awhile. It's especially hard to get back into that mode when it's not where you planned to be or even wanted to be.
  - davesque 9y ago
    I hear this man. After my mother passed away three years ago, it was like the entire family disappeared somehow. Never imagined how things would change.
    - inceptionnames 9y ago
      Mothers really keep the family together, even in their old age.
      - davesque 9y ago
        Absolutely. She was a social and emotional hub for us and one of my best friends...fuck. Life's a damn trip.
        DougN7 9y ago
        My mother is (thankfully) still alive, so I hope I can take the naive advice I'm going to give you: you could try to become that hub. I know when my brothers initiate something (like a surprise birthday party for Mom), we're all excited to jump on board.
        9y ago
tekkk 9y ago
Now that I started to think about it how does one create deep relationships? It never occurred to me that I should be taught these things. It has just sorta happened, at times at least. Nowadays I only wonder how I used to be much closer to people but the idea of creating stronger friendships is vague. Is is just by hanging around long enough with other people? Or should we actively seek to bring up issues that we care about and/or currently dealing with? How the hell did I know how to do it when I was a child? Funny thing happened recently as I was on a company vacation and talked mostly small-talk bullshit the whole time. Only when I and my coworker were taking the same bus down to the city he actually brought up a deep and personal issue. It made me wonder how did I became so closed-up and lost my willingness to talk about things that are deeply meaningful to me? Is it because I never felt that others would listen? Or that they would shun me? What I was afraid of? It's for sure a downward spiral once it starts and your abilities to make those deep connections with other people start deteriorating. I think we should be taught better how friendships are actually made and that talking about feelings and deep thoughts is ok. The cultural education here seems to be failing to teach the right things.
- montecarl 9y ago
  I think one of the best ways to create deep relationships is to actively help others. Your co-worker mentions that they are moving next month: offer to help move. Your friend's kids are sick and they are stuck at home caring for them: bring them dinner. If you have some older friends (maybe from church) there are often things around the house they might need help with. Once you have helped someone once, your name will come up in their mind next time they are in a tough situation. This is almost the definition of a "deep relationship": a person who you know you can rely on and who will help you if you really need it. Other "shallow" relationships are people who you just like to talk to or go have a drink with.
  - copperx 9y ago
    This is exactly how you do it in adulthood.
  - DougN7 9y ago
    > I think one of the best ways to create deep relationships is to actively help others. +1 You can help someone directly, and you'll become close to that someone. Or as a group help someone and you'll become closer to that group. Service really is the magic bullet.
sage76 9y ago
> It feels like one of those things which creeps on you, and before you know it, you aren't attending social events, you don't have much energy or confidence, your perception of others becomes skewed, and it all seems pretty helpless. And yet, nobody wants to hang, or even meet up for a simple dinner. Am I the only one who makes an effort to keep up with friends, with little reciprocity?

by colmvp 9y ago

drdeadringer 9y ago

> It feels like one of those things which creeps on you, and before you know it, you aren't attending social events, you don't have much energy or confidence, your perception of others becomes skewed, and it all seems pretty helpless. "How did you get lonely?" "Gradually, then suddenly." ... I wonder if there aren't many aspects of life like this.

hestipod 9y ago
"Gradually then suddenly" This phrase, it's context, and your follow up thought have affected me in a raw and uncomofortable way I wasn't expecting today.
- drdeadringer 9y ago
  And similar to yours to me. Many thanks.
- marnett 9y ago
  In what ways? I'm interested to hear what it made you think of.
  - hestipod 9y ago
    It just connected with the losses and changes of getting older and less self sufficient, and how those have been magnified in me since I was struck down before 30 with serious health issues so I experienced them earlier than I should have. It's hard to believe how long its been looking back. I feel my life sort of froze in many ways and the wounds most definitely haven't healed with time. "Gradually, then suddenly" just seems to fit this and so many aspects of life. I suspect many people can relate.
    - marnett 9y ago
      Given that perspective it is quite a somber phrase. Assuming you are living in America, do you feel like the standard 'things you should care about' package offered to us by government, cultural-shaping institutions, and the economy-shaping institutions is rather lack-luster when the standard distractions do not apply? I guess more specifically, given the variance off the 'standard american life' you have experienced, most of the 'escapes' don't quite fit the mold of your experiences. I know there isn't really a question there - I guess, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear your thoughts on those ideas.
      - hestipod 9y ago
        I'm always afraid of the negative attention with such political statements, but I most definitely feel left behind by America and am not a fan of it's priorities. I did what I was "supposed" to, paid into the system, worked hard, and when I needed help it wasn't there and common things available to me before, like medical care/insurance, were suddenly out of reach. I find that incomprehensible in a first world nation. I have seen friends in similar positions in countries with robust social systems rebuild their lives and live/contribute again in ways not possible without that healthcare/education/living support. I lived abroad for some time and was able to access medical care there I simply cannot afford here but wasn't able to emigrate fully. The "rugged individualism" attitude of the culture doesn't seem to have much room for people once they lose their independence whether it's their fault or not...which frankly I don't think should matter...but especially hurts since I am not at fault for my situation. I gave up arguing about it a long time ago as I've never succeeded in changing anyone's view and just get depressed at the debate. Only suffering it directly seems to ever change people, and some of those people still seem to attack other victims rather than the cause of the issue. It's a bigger problem than I can affect but I hope one day people aren't left behind in such ways.
legulere 9y ago
I checked this out as I heard the phrase before. "Gradually, then suddenly" seems to be originally a quote from Hemmingway in The Sun Also Rises about bankrupcy: “How did you go bankrupt?" - "Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” It is quoted then in the context of depression in the movie Prozac Nation: "Gradually, then suddenly." That's how depression hits. You wake up one morning, afraid that you're gonna live.
- marnett 9y ago
  Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises is an amazing novel for anyone who has not read it. Some truly amazing characters and social dynamics are laid out in that book. I finished it in one sitting when I read it a few years back, it was a page-turner in a weird, unmatched kind of way.
- trophycase 9y ago
  Interesting little piece of trivia. I'm on vacation and just finished reading The Sun Also Rises 2 days ago and I'm now reading "The Awakening" by Kate Chopin and just encountered this passage: "They became intimate and friendly by imperceptible degrees, and then by leaps." Which reads very similar to the Hemmingway passage. Maybe he stole it ;)

innocentoldguy 9y ago

I agree with you regarding the benefits of finding a group to meet with. I was in an accident last year and shattered my spine. The place I worked fired me the very next day, right after I got out of surgery. I've spent a year now cooped up in my house. I've never been a very social individual, but a couple of months ago, I wandered down to a church building that is about a block from my house. The people were welcoming and I found myself going down there more and more frequently. They started offering free classes, about three weeks ago, on how to run your own business. Since it has been nigh unto impossible to find regular work, I started going to the classes to work on starting my own thing. I wasn't aware there was a problem with loneliness in my life until I started taking those classes and making friends with the other people attending. It has made an incredible difference.

owebmaster 9y ago

> I think loneliness is especially bad for men as we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions Don't put the blame on the victims. Modern society doesn't discuss and give relevance to the problems of individual men in the way it does to women's problems.

iak8god 9y ago
How about "[men] are conditioned to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions"
- eeZah7Ux 9y ago
  Much better. "we are prone to hide our mental health and true feelings/emotions" sounds like it's nature rather than nurture. [EDIT: why the downvotes, again?]
  - owebmaster 9y ago
    I'm asking the same myself. But we all know the answer. HN is a dictatorial space that uses censorship to unify its opinion in a liberal banner. If you have progressive ideas you are out of the club.
    - dang 9y ago
      That's not true! lots of people here have progressive ideas. Lots of people on the other sides, too, of course. The community is divided because society is divided. It is true that the political battle style of comment tends to get flagged and downvoted, because it's bad for the intellectual curiosity that HN exists for. But it's still possible to have thoughtful conversation about such ideas; it just unfortunately tends to degenerate quickly into not-so-thoughtful. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- owebmaster 9y ago
  How about "men have difficult lifes the same way women have so this creates problems that we should be better prepared to discuss and solve?"

rb808 9y ago

I saw mentioned here that men are quick to give up friends, with work & family & wife's social calendar there really isn't much time for anything else. I need to make an effort to make friends cause really all I ever see is work colleagues and other parents of our children's friends.

Pigo 9y ago
I had a family for almost ten years, and then suddenly I only had part of my family once in awhile. It's especially hard to get back into that mode when it's not where you planned to be or even wanted to be.
- davesque 9y ago
  I hear this man. After my mother passed away three years ago, it was like the entire family disappeared somehow. Never imagined how things would change.
  - inceptionnames 9y ago
    Mothers really keep the family together, even in their old age.
    - davesque 9y ago
      Absolutely. She was a social and emotional hub for us and one of my best friends...fuck. Life's a damn trip.
      - DougN7 9y ago
        My mother is (thankfully) still alive, so I hope I can take the naive advice I'm going to give you: you could try to become that hub. I know when my brothers initiate something (like a surprise birthday party for Mom), we're all excited to jump on board.
        9y ago

tekkk 9y ago

Now that I started to think about it how does one create deep relationships? It never occurred to me that I should be taught these things. It has just sorta happened, at times at least. Nowadays I only wonder how I used to be much closer to people but the idea of creating stronger friendships is vague. Is is just by hanging around long enough with other people? Or should we actively seek to bring up issues that we care about and/or currently dealing with? How the hell did I know how to do it when I was a child? Funny thing happened recently as I was on a company vacation and talked mostly small-talk bullshit the whole time. Only when I and my coworker were taking the same bus down to the city he actually brought up a deep and personal issue. It made me wonder how did I became so closed-up and lost my willingness to talk about things that are deeply meaningful to me? Is it because I never felt that others would listen? Or that they would shun me? What I was afraid of? It's for sure a downward spiral once it starts and your abilities to make those deep connections with other people start deteriorating. I think we should be taught better how friendships are actually made and that talking about feelings and deep thoughts is ok. The cultural education here seems to be failing to teach the right things.

montecarl 9y ago
I think one of the best ways to create deep relationships is to actively help others. Your co-worker mentions that they are moving next month: offer to help move. Your friend's kids are sick and they are stuck at home caring for them: bring them dinner. If you have some older friends (maybe from church) there are often things around the house they might need help with. Once you have helped someone once, your name will come up in their mind next time they are in a tough situation. This is almost the definition of a "deep relationship": a person who you know you can rely on and who will help you if you really need it. Other "shallow" relationships are people who you just like to talk to or go have a drink with.
- copperx 9y ago
  This is exactly how you do it in adulthood.
- DougN7 9y ago
  > I think one of the best ways to create deep relationships is to actively help others. +1 You can help someone directly, and you'll become close to that someone. Or as a group help someone and you'll become closer to that group. Service really is the magic bullet.

sage76 9y ago

> It feels like one of those things which creeps on you, and before you know it, you aren't attending social events, you don't have much energy or confidence, your perception of others becomes skewed, and it all seems pretty helpless. And yet, nobody wants to hang, or even meet up for a simple dinner. Am I the only one who makes an effort to keep up with friends, with little reciprocity?