7 ms·

Why not use Beaker[0] and achieve the same thing, but on linux and windows too? It has a great community too [0](http://beakerbrowser.com/ http://beakerbrowse

Why not use Beaker[0] and achieve the same thing, but on linux and windows too? It has a great community too [0](http://beakerbrowser.com/ http://beakerbrowser.com/)

jaboutboul 9y ago
Or BlockStack[0] even [0](https://blockstack.org https://blockstack.org)
- marknadal 9y ago
  Or add realtime updates to IPFS, Beaker, or Blockstack using a P2P/decentralized Firebase: https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun IPFS + Firebase = Lovechild ^
  - jaboutboul 9y ago
    Wow, this is great. Thanks for sharing this.
  - edjroot 9y ago
    I remember having read about Gun a few years ago [1] and there was a lot of (apparently) valid criticism. Do you know how much of that is still valid today? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9076558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9076558
    - marknadal 9y ago
      If you intend to use GUN for banking or any globally consistent (CP) system, then yes. However, for everything else, the criticisms no longer apply. GUN is an CRDT based AP (highly-available, partition tolerant) strongly eventually consistent system, and therefore should not be used for banking-like systems. I hate the jargon so sorry to reply with it, but it allow for a quick/concise summary of GUN's tradeoffs. Some more resources below: - Cartoon explainer of academic stuff: https://gun.eco/distributed/matters.html https://gun.eco/distributed/matters.html - CAP Theorem tradeoffs: https://gun.eco/docs/CAP-Theorem https://gun.eco/docs/CAP-Theorem - How to implement the CRDT and how it solves for Split-Brain failures: https://gun.eco/docs/Conflict-Resolution-with-Guns https://gun.eco/docs/Conflict-Resolution-with-Guns There are a bunch of other resources, but I'm more than happy to reply/answer any specific questions if you have them. Cheers!
      - edjroot 9y ago
        That's exciting, thanks a lot! I was just considering using a graph database for a future side project. I also read Neo4j was an inspiration. Is there any "human-made" comparison between the two? All I could find was "A vs. B" comparison tables. Thanks again!
        marknadal 9y ago
        @edjroot I don't know if this is any different than what you already saw, but the biggest differences are: - Neo4j is Master-Slave, GUN is Master-Master (or Multi-Master, or Masterless). Basically, GUN is P2P/decentralized, Neo4j is centralized. - GUN has realtime updates/sync built in, Neo4j does not. - GUN has offline-first features, Neo4j does not. Other considerations: - Neo4j has its own query language, GUN has a FRP (Functional Reactive Programming) based JS API. - Neo4j is over a decade old, GUN since late 2014. - Neo4j is more monolithic, GUN is more microservice-y.
StavrosK 9y ago
It's personal preference, some people will prefer Beaker, we personally liked the "drag some files to a folder and that's it" UX. By the way, I'll mention this here because it isn't evident on the Hearth page right now: You can get your own username on Eternum for free, and it will redirect to the latest hash that Hearth publishes (i.e. the latest version of your website) automatically. You can do this even if you don't use Hearth (we have an API for it), here's an example with my username: https://www.eternum.io/user/stavros/ https://www.eternum.io/user/stavros/
- lucideer 9y ago
  > we personally liked the "drag some files to a folder and that's it" UX. Beaker does this... In terms of getting a free username on a HTTP website, https://hashbase.io/ https://hashbase.io/ Disclaimer: I haven't used Hearth, so I can't compare, but Beaker doesn't seem like it could be much easier.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Oh I see, thanks. I'm not very familiar with Dat/Beaker, but I'll try it out some more, as I missed that mechanic.
    - lucideer 9y ago
      Quick demo if you don't want to install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLaEyKGc90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLaEyKGc90
  - super_trooper 9y ago
    Am I missing something? Beaker requires you to use their browser? Not really apples to apples
    - lucideer 9y ago
      Beaker is a browser that supports http:// http:// and dat:// - you can: - use Beaker to publish/"host" dat:// websites (as you can use Hearth to publish ipfs websites) - use Beaker or any dat:// client to browse dat:// websites - use any browser to browse dat:// websites via http through hashbase.io (similar to eternum.io)
fiatjaf 9y ago
Ok, but to access a site published on Beaker you must use the Beaker browser, right?
- lucideer 9y ago
  If it's published on Hashbase, you can access it with any HTTP client (though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p). Otherwise, you will need a dat:// client - Beaker is the main web browser with dat:// support, other clients sofar have more specialised uses, e.g. https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair
  - jondashkyle 9y ago
    > though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p Not really. Need ways of bridging the gap.
    - lucideer 9y ago
      I guess what I meant was that using hashbase exclusively over http and not switching to using dat:// clients would be somewhat defying the point, but yeah, it's a good bridge.
      - jondashkyle 9y ago
        Yeah. This is where appropriating existing patterns like pay-walls becomes interesting. Instead of requiring registration and a fee, simply view in a p2p-enabled environment and help offset bandwidth costs. Of course there is more to it that that, but money not spent on infrastructure is money in the pockets of content creators and publishers.
  - IamNotAtWork 9y ago
    Hashbase seems to function as one of the nodes in the DAT network, so even if none of the peers are online at least Hashbase is still there. That's what I gathered from a quick scan. The DAT network seems interesting and is new to me, but like you said, needing a central node to cache the data seems like breaking the p2p story.
jondashkyle 9y ago
I spent several years at Cargo Collective (https://cargocollective.com https://cargocollective.com), a publishing platform for designers, musicians, architects, etc… Pre-SquareSpace, Wix, all that… Days away from releasing the public beta of Enoki, an experimental publishing tool for the peer-to-peer web. Currently running inside Beaker Browser and built on Dat. Beta registration was opened last week, although it is still trying to fly a bit below the radar :) https://enoki.site https://enoki.site
prophesi 9y ago
Fun fact: Beaker used to support IPFS[0] and the IPFS creator used to work with the Dat project[1]. [0]https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/480#issuecomment-346865836 https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/480#issuecomm... [1]https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues/119#issuecomment-218278390 https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues/119#issuecomment-21827839...
fiatjaf 9y ago
Why Google Drive if you can Dropbox? Or whatever. This comment is just advertising for the Beaker browser. It could at least be open about it and say: "Also check out Beaker, with similar functionality". It's not nice or intelligent to say "don't do this in a different way because we are already doing it in our own way".
xori 9y ago
I find that Beaker doesn't cut through corporate/university firewalls as good as IPFS. I'd be interested to know others experiences.

Why not use Beaker[0] and achieve the same thing, but on linux and windows too? It has a great community too [0](http://beakerbrowser.com/ http://beakerbrowser.com/)

jaboutboul 9y ago

Or BlockStack[0] even [0](https://blockstack.org https://blockstack.org)

marknadal 9y ago
Or add realtime updates to IPFS, Beaker, or Blockstack using a P2P/decentralized Firebase: https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun IPFS + Firebase = Lovechild ^
- jaboutboul 9y ago
  Wow, this is great. Thanks for sharing this.
- edjroot 9y ago
  I remember having read about Gun a few years ago [1] and there was a lot of (apparently) valid criticism. Do you know how much of that is still valid today? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9076558 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9076558
  - marknadal 9y ago
    If you intend to use GUN for banking or any globally consistent (CP) system, then yes. However, for everything else, the criticisms no longer apply. GUN is an CRDT based AP (highly-available, partition tolerant) strongly eventually consistent system, and therefore should not be used for banking-like systems. I hate the jargon so sorry to reply with it, but it allow for a quick/concise summary of GUN's tradeoffs. Some more resources below: - Cartoon explainer of academic stuff: https://gun.eco/distributed/matters.html https://gun.eco/distributed/matters.html - CAP Theorem tradeoffs: https://gun.eco/docs/CAP-Theorem https://gun.eco/docs/CAP-Theorem - How to implement the CRDT and how it solves for Split-Brain failures: https://gun.eco/docs/Conflict-Resolution-with-Guns https://gun.eco/docs/Conflict-Resolution-with-Guns There are a bunch of other resources, but I'm more than happy to reply/answer any specific questions if you have them. Cheers!
    - edjroot 9y ago
      That's exciting, thanks a lot! I was just considering using a graph database for a future side project. I also read Neo4j was an inspiration. Is there any "human-made" comparison between the two? All I could find was "A vs. B" comparison tables. Thanks again!
      - marknadal 9y ago
        @edjroot I don't know if this is any different than what you already saw, but the biggest differences are: - Neo4j is Master-Slave, GUN is Master-Master (or Multi-Master, or Masterless). Basically, GUN is P2P/decentralized, Neo4j is centralized. - GUN has realtime updates/sync built in, Neo4j does not. - GUN has offline-first features, Neo4j does not. Other considerations: - Neo4j has its own query language, GUN has a FRP (Functional Reactive Programming) based JS API. - Neo4j is over a decade old, GUN since late 2014. - Neo4j is more monolithic, GUN is more microservice-y.

StavrosK 9y ago

It's personal preference, some people will prefer Beaker, we personally liked the "drag some files to a folder and that's it" UX. By the way, I'll mention this here because it isn't evident on the Hearth page right now: You can get your own username on Eternum for free, and it will redirect to the latest hash that Hearth publishes (i.e. the latest version of your website) automatically. You can do this even if you don't use Hearth (we have an API for it), here's an example with my username: https://www.eternum.io/user/stavros/ https://www.eternum.io/user/stavros/

lucideer 9y ago
> we personally liked the "drag some files to a folder and that's it" UX. Beaker does this... In terms of getting a free username on a HTTP website, https://hashbase.io/ https://hashbase.io/ Disclaimer: I haven't used Hearth, so I can't compare, but Beaker doesn't seem like it could be much easier.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Oh I see, thanks. I'm not very familiar with Dat/Beaker, but I'll try it out some more, as I missed that mechanic.
  - lucideer 9y ago
    Quick demo if you don't want to install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLaEyKGc90 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwLaEyKGc90
- super_trooper 9y ago
  Am I missing something? Beaker requires you to use their browser? Not really apples to apples
  - lucideer 9y ago
    Beaker is a browser that supports http:// http:// and dat:// - you can: - use Beaker to publish/"host" dat:// websites (as you can use Hearth to publish ipfs websites) - use Beaker or any dat:// client to browse dat:// websites - use any browser to browse dat:// websites via http through hashbase.io (similar to eternum.io)

fiatjaf 9y ago

Ok, but to access a site published on Beaker you must use the Beaker browser, right?

lucideer 9y ago
If it's published on Hashbase, you can access it with any HTTP client (though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p). Otherwise, you will need a dat:// client - Beaker is the main web browser with dat:// support, other clients sofar have more specialised uses, e.g. https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair https://github.com/codeforscience/sciencefair
- jondashkyle 9y ago
  > though this of course somewhat defies the point of it being p2p Not really. Need ways of bridging the gap.
  - lucideer 9y ago
    I guess what I meant was that using hashbase exclusively over http and not switching to using dat:// clients would be somewhat defying the point, but yeah, it's a good bridge.
    - jondashkyle 9y ago
      Yeah. This is where appropriating existing patterns like pay-walls becomes interesting. Instead of requiring registration and a fee, simply view in a p2p-enabled environment and help offset bandwidth costs. Of course there is more to it that that, but money not spent on infrastructure is money in the pockets of content creators and publishers.
- IamNotAtWork 9y ago
  Hashbase seems to function as one of the nodes in the DAT network, so even if none of the peers are online at least Hashbase is still there. That's what I gathered from a quick scan. The DAT network seems interesting and is new to me, but like you said, needing a central node to cache the data seems like breaking the p2p story.

jondashkyle 9y ago

I spent several years at Cargo Collective (https://cargocollective.com https://cargocollective.com), a publishing platform for designers, musicians, architects, etc… Pre-SquareSpace, Wix, all that… Days away from releasing the public beta of Enoki, an experimental publishing tool for the peer-to-peer web. Currently running inside Beaker Browser and built on Dat. Beta registration was opened last week, although it is still trying to fly a bit below the radar :) https://enoki.site https://enoki.site

prophesi 9y ago

Fun fact: Beaker used to support IPFS[0] and the IPFS creator used to work with the Dat project[1]. [0]https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/480#issuecomment-346865836 https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker/issues/480#issuecomm... [1]https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues/119#issuecomment-218278390 https://github.com/ipfs/faq/issues/119#issuecomment-21827839...

fiatjaf 9y ago

Why Google Drive if you can Dropbox? Or whatever. This comment is just advertising for the Beaker browser. It could at least be open about it and say: "Also check out Beaker, with similar functionality". It's not nice or intelligent to say "don't do this in a different way because we are already doing it in our own way".

xori 9y ago

I find that Beaker doesn't cut through corporate/university firewalls as good as IPFS. I'd be interested to know others experiences.