7 ms·

> I don't think it is a given that Musk ever intended for Tesla's success to be an economic one. What did Musk tell investors?

alex_hitchins 9y ago
Good point, but would investors now stand to benefit over all from expediting the development of electric vehicles, solar and space transportation?
- PaulHoule 9y ago
  People spend good money on cars, electricity, and rocket launches. I think the last one is a particularly good business because even though the US military has understood that cost reduction is job #1 for the use of space, the conventional cost plus model of developing rockets and then building and launch them can put stuff in orbit but cannot do cost reduction.
adamcharnock 9y ago
I have observed a wide range of attitudes towards deception. Both deception of one's self, and of others. For example: For some people being 'a liar' is one of the worst things imaginable, but to others it is perfectly fine. The former judge the latter as being immoral monsters, the latter think the former are rather sweet (and are perhaps also glad the former exist?). Regarding deception of one's self: some people feel there is an absolute truth that can be known, whereas others may choose their reality and belief systems to fit their needs in any given moment. I'm describing opposite ends of two spectrums here, rather than categories. I think people make assumptions about where Musk is on those spectrums.
- pjc50 9y ago
  I'm not sure that telling the SEC that there is no absolute truth in the universe is going to fly.
  - adamcharnock 9y ago
    You're right, I think I was just getting a bit carried away on my soap box.
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      GP is rather sweet, amirite?
- emiliobumachar 9y ago
  Excuse my pedantry, but you're describing opposite ends of a spectrum.
  - Dylan16807 9y ago
    They described four ends...
    - emiliobumachar 9y ago
      True, sorry. I misunderstood it on the first read. New nit: two spectra.
emiliobumachar 9y ago
I think he started in the company as an investor, and only later took over.
osteele 9y ago
My sense, from the press and from personal acquaintances, is that a lot of early investors, and at least some later investors, were impact investors[1]. DBL Investors is a notable example of an early Tesla impact investor. The successor, DBL Partners, is long on all three Musk companies.[2] This doesn't mean that Tesla didn't need to be an economic success. It does mean that economic success wasn't the only criterion, or as highly ranked as it is for a non-impact company with non-impact investors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_investing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_investing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBL_Partners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBL_Partners

alex_hitchins 9y ago

Good point, but would investors now stand to benefit over all from expediting the development of electric vehicles, solar and space transportation?

PaulHoule 9y ago
People spend good money on cars, electricity, and rocket launches. I think the last one is a particularly good business because even though the US military has understood that cost reduction is job #1 for the use of space, the conventional cost plus model of developing rockets and then building and launch them can put stuff in orbit but cannot do cost reduction.

adamcharnock 9y ago

I have observed a wide range of attitudes towards deception. Both deception of one's self, and of others. For example: For some people being 'a liar' is one of the worst things imaginable, but to others it is perfectly fine. The former judge the latter as being immoral monsters, the latter think the former are rather sweet (and are perhaps also glad the former exist?). Regarding deception of one's self: some people feel there is an absolute truth that can be known, whereas others may choose their reality and belief systems to fit their needs in any given moment. I'm describing opposite ends of two spectrums here, rather than categories. I think people make assumptions about where Musk is on those spectrums.

pjc50 9y ago
I'm not sure that telling the SEC that there is no absolute truth in the universe is going to fly.
- adamcharnock 9y ago
  You're right, I think I was just getting a bit carried away on my soap box.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    GP is rather sweet, amirite?
emiliobumachar 9y ago
Excuse my pedantry, but you're describing opposite ends of a spectrum.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  They described four ends...
  - emiliobumachar 9y ago
    True, sorry. I misunderstood it on the first read. New nit: two spectra.

emiliobumachar 9y ago

I think he started in the company as an investor, and only later took over.

osteele 9y ago

My sense, from the press and from personal acquaintances, is that a lot of early investors, and at least some later investors, were impact investors[1]. DBL Investors is a notable example of an early Tesla impact investor. The successor, DBL Partners, is long on all three Musk companies.[2] This doesn't mean that Tesla didn't need to be an economic success. It does mean that economic success wasn't the only criterion, or as highly ranked as it is for a non-impact company with non-impact investors. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_investing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_investing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBL_Partners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBL_Partners