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How bathroom posture affects your health.
- autarch 16y ago"My 10-minute routine dropped to a minute ..." Jesus, what the hell is wrong with this guy? Or maybe I'm the freak, but I don't spend ten minutes on the toilet. Usually it takes 30s-2m to do my business. Maybe he should consider a change in diet?
- hugh3 16y agoYeah, it sounds like this guy has some kind of specific problem, which maybe squatting can relieve. I looked him up, assuming he might be an old guy, but he appears to be early-to-mid 20s, meaning that spending ten minutes just to take a crap on a regular basis is not normal.
- sliverstorm 16y agoWhat if he has a good book on hand? I've been known to spend hours in there due to good books. It gets very uncomfortable, but you just can't put the book down!
- loewenskind 16y agoIf you think it's uncomfortable now, wait until you get hemorrhoid surgery to undo the damage you're doing with this.
- sliverstorm 16y agoI was a little kid at the time. I haven't had enough fixating books since then. Thankfully, I don't think children are especially susceptible.
- kranner 16y agoDon't read on the toilet seat. loewenskind has already said it, but I think it's important enough to repeat clearly. Sitting on that ring puts pressure on the anal muscles. Again, do not read on the toilet seat!
- k3dz 16y ago>>I've been known to spend hours in there due to good books. http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1281257293.html http://sheddingbikes.com/posts/1281257293.html
- naner 16y agoHow old are you? I've found the good 'ol GI tract and related equipment doesn't work as efficiently as you start to approach 30. Also you can't read magazines or check email while you're "perched" so maybe that has something to do with it. ;)
- maxawaytoolong 16y agoI've found the good 'ol GI tract and related equipment doesn't work as efficiently as you start to approach 30 Perhaps if you have a diet that consists mainly of cheese. "Approaching 30" is a bit early for your colon to start clogging up... you might want to get that checked out.
- snprbob86 16y agoI've been perching for 2 years and subjectively recommend it.
- jbrennan 16y agoKudos to those who participated in the studies (particularly the Japanese study). They sounded extraodinarily uncomfortable. As odd as it sounds, I'm thankful for the lengths some will go for science (I'm going to pretend this was the motivation).
- chrischen 16y agoSquat toilets are also more sanitary. I'd much prefer public toilets in the US be of the squat variety.
- ciupicri 16y agoI would say that except one or two, all the other public squat toilets which I've seen were horrible. Though I agree that they're more sanitary because your butt doesn't touch them.
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- gojomo 16y agoThe public squat toilets I've seen have been more of a mess than public sit toilets, and the standing area can be as bad as the porcelain rim of a sit toilet -- a place I would not choose to step. So while more sanitary under ideal proper use, in public places they appear to me less sanitary, at least in their effect on all floors nearby. I wonder if this contributes to the higher rates of hepatitis and related illnesses in Asia -- and that in turn to the custom of removing shoes before entering households.
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- munchhausen 16y ago> I wonder if this contributes to the higher rates of hepatitis and related illnesses in Asia -- and that in turn to the custom of removing shoes before entering households. Removing shoes before entering households is standard practice in quite a few (most?) European countries as well, so I imagine it is not related to higher rates of hepatitis and subsequent fear of infection. (Frankly, from a subjective viewpoint, I consider this custom to be related mostly to common sense. It seems mind-boggling to me not to remove shoes before entering your home. Not only does it keep your home cleaner, but it is more comfortable to boot. The only valid exception would be not asking guests to remove shoes, since they may not be comfortable with that.)
- drivebyacct2 16y agoI believe I saw a diagram once of one's internals in both postures. The squatted one looked more "natural" or at least less... "tangled". I had no luck finding that picture to share though. Can anyone assist?
- walkon 16y agoNews the laxative industry doesn't want you to hear!
- strebler 16y agoThis article speaks the truth. I was traveling in China last year and was averse to pooping in the squat toilets there (they're generally quite filthy). In any case, eventually push came to shove and I had to bite the bullet. It was like an awakening, I had not realized how uncomfortable are our western toilets until this experience.
- euccastro 16y agoAnother advantage of a squat toilet is your buttocks don't touch any of that filth.
- dpritchett 16y agoSee the award-winning "How to do the Asian Squat" documentary from 2002: http://vimeo.com/12977039 http://vimeo.com/12977039
- eru 16y agoI'd say mockumentary. Highly enjoyable, but if you actually want to learn how to squat properly, then Craig Weller has some advice in "The Third-World Squat" (http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2007/07-210-training.html http://www.t-nation.com/portal_includes/articles/2007/07-210...).
- HiroshiSan 16y agoWhat if I can't properly squat? How can I overcome this? I've tried doing different squat stretch's but I just can't seem to squat..I'm always on my tippy toes.
- khafra 16y agoTake a look at your shins. Mine have a significant negative camber, curving out to about 10-15 degrees. Because this puts my feet a few inches forward of a normal person's, I can't rest in a squat; I have to actively lean way forward. If your shins are normal, though, just work on the leg strength to control your descent, and the ankle forward flexibility required to shift your center of gravity the inch or so foward to compensate for going from the balls of your feet to the whole foot.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago>sitting on toilets—a recent phenomenon, stemming from the invention of the flush toilet in 1591—might be unhealthy There's a Roman museum near here that has a model barracks toilet which is basically like a modern compost loo - it's like an enclosed bench with holes to defecate through. I guess you might be supposed to stand on it but it's certainly not presented that way. I've seen toilets in medieval château and castles with wooden seats on a knee height enclosure too. Doesn't appear to be an invention that followed the flush toilet. Nor can I see how a flush toilet would need a change in posture.
- bombs 16y agoThe ruins of Leptis Magna, Roman ruins dating from 1100 BCE–650 CE, features sit-down toilets. http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyan_soup/650693182/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/libyan_soup/650693182/
- eru 16y agoI have heard people argue, that the Roman toilets were for squatting on top.
- pbhjpbhj 16y agoLike wikipedia. >the Roman toilets were probably elevated to raise them above open sewers, rather than for sitting. However in the image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ostia-Toilets.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ostia-Toilets.JPG accompanying one can see that this would mean that the Romans were wasting a lot of well prepared stone building the toilets twice as high as needed (note the extra stone below the opening). One thought was that this could be an economy of parts, the "seat" and front pieces appear same-dimensioned - but then I noticed that the bottom part has a corner that the top part didn't and so in this instance that theory appears unsound. Given the Romans amazing engineering prowess I can't see them wasting materials like this in order to make the toilets harder to use. http://books.google.com/books?id=RIRlPwAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:OCLC317259036 http://books.google.com/books?id=RIRlPwAACAAJ&printsec=f... appears to be the major ref on Wikipedia and is widely cited in scientific papers but unfortunately I can't find a place to read it online (and don't have a copy!). Edit: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0715638505?ie=UTF8&tag=flapjacktasti-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0715638505 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0715638505?ie=UTF8&tag=... "Latrinae Et Foricae: Toilets in the Roman World" clearly, to me, shows a Roman toilet as a seat on the front (my posterior would fit but my feet wouldn't fit either side of the hole to squat). Review - http://bloggingpompeii.blogspot.com/2009/12/latrinae-et-foricae-toilets-in-roman.html http://bloggingpompeii.blogspot.com/2009/12/latrinae-et-fori...
- moultano 16y agoSorry, but I don't know a polite way to ask this. How do you urinate while on a squat toilet without peeing all over your pants?
- tdfx 16y agoYou've ideally got two independent flows occurring. Aim them in the same place... preferably not in your pants.
- moultano 16y agoFound the answer to my own question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan#Squat_toilet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan#Squat_toilet Turns out, you only pull your pants down to your knees, so the area between your feet is unobstructed for peeing.
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- djburiedalive 16y agoTake your pants off?
- rjurney 16y agoYou have to take your pants off, or you will poop right in them ;)
- prototype56 16y agoThis i found to be the biggest drawback of squat toilets . When you pee from standing position you pee all over the steps .
- tdfx 16y agoI haven't sat on a toilet in years. I spend less time in the rest room and I've also got some good quad muscles to show for it.
- tomwalker 16y agoThere is something else to through into the argument- flexibility. The use of western toilets reduces our ability to reach the full squat position and some reckon this is why pulled hamstrings and achilles injuries are more common. When western people squat, we tend to go up on our toes to reach full depth due to our inflexibility gained from using toilets. This inflexibility changes the way we do things- when a western adult wants to pick up something from the floor they bend over at the hip. Watch a young child that has recently started to walk do it- they do a full squat with their heals on the ground!
- Qz 16y agoCan't you just lean forward on the toilet to achieve the same result?
- blahedo 16y agoOr raise your legs a bit, continuing to let the seat carry your weight but raising your knees by pointing your toes or just lifting them. Though I've only thought about trying out squat toilets (or "perching"), I can anecdotally report that leg-raising by itself does have some effect.
- jharrison 16y agoIf you're removing your rear from the seat while leaning forward, then maybe. The point of squatting, besides the angle of the innards involved, is the pressure on your bum. Leaning forward, or raising your feet of the ground, as is mentioned, won't decrease the pressure. That motion is more likely to increase the pressure. There are a number of articles regarding this rectal pressure as it contributes to hemorrhoids. IANAD...just my 2 cents.
- antidaily 16y agosix subjects had their rectums filled with a contrast solution and then released the fluid from a squatting or a sitting position while being filmed with X-ray video. yikes.
- angstrom 16y agoScience!
- trafficlight 16y agoOnly if they were wearing lab coats.
- pavel_lishin 16y agoYeah, I think I've seen that one on the porn store rack.
- patrickgzill 16y agoGrad students would be my guess...
- edanm 16y agoI was told once that in China, people squat a lot more than in the West. Both for toilet use, but also just for "sitting down" somewhere. Example: I was told that upon seeing a bench, whereas westerners would normally sit on it, a Chinese person will squat on it. This supposedly also makes their legs much stronger. Can anyone confirm this?
- anamax 16y ago> I was told once that in China, people squat a lot more than in the West. Both for toilet use, but also just for "sitting down" somewhere. In rural midwest US, the instead-of-sit squat is called a "hunker". Yes, folks talk about "hunkering" and will say "come over her and hunker with us for a while". "Hunker down" is different. > I was told that upon seeing a bench, whereas westerners would normally sit on it, a Chinese person will squat on it. I've never seen anyone hunker on a bench - they always hunkered on the ground.
- gcheong 16y agoI know it is quite common to see people squatting in Japan. http://www.kirainet.com/english/japanese-crouching/ http://www.kirainet.com/english/japanese-crouching/
- kranner 16y agoSquatting trivia: South Asians do squat in repose, but notice that the heel of the foot is in full contact with the ground. I read somewhere that the typical Westerner, or someone not used to squatting for extended periods, will squat on the balls of their feet. Apparently this can tire you out quickly. I'm embarrassed that I can't quite manage to squat on my heels either, despite being South Asian.
- ChRoss 16y agoI think it's affected with whether you're skinny person or not. Skinny people are easier to squat on heels, as they have smaller flesh/muscle. I observe football players have difficulty in squatting on heels.
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- RyanMcGreal 16y agoI'm still holding out for the Three Seashells toilet.
- rudyfink 16y agoTechnically and nerdily, I believe that was a form of toilet paper and not a toilet.
- TGJ 16y agoIf your interested in outfitting your own house with something else, http://www.naturesplatform.com/index.html http://www.naturesplatform.com/index.html I've tried myself to squat while hiking outdoors and I keep falling over.
- jseifer 16y agoAnd how can you argue with those endorsements! I've been balancing on toilet seats for twenty years. I've broken a few, and dislodged my share of toilets from their anchors to considerable expense. The stability, comfort and ease of Nature's Platform is a great relief. Charlie Walters, M.B.A. Boone, North Carolina http://www.naturesplatform.com/testimonials.html#Walters http://www.naturesplatform.com/testimonials.html#Walters
- RK 16y agoThe study claims squatting is better than sitting for hemorrhoids, but what is the effect of squatting on the knees?
- eru 16y agoDeep squatting is good for the knees. I do it as a weight lifting exercise three times a week. Please squat below parallel (i.e. hip below knees, the bone in your leg should be below parallel to the ground). High squatting above parallel can wreck your knees.
- djburiedalive 16y agoFor what it's worth, I've been squatting since preadolescence. As a counterpoint to the experience of the sitters in the study who rated their experiences squatting "more comfortable" than sitting, I've tried going back to sitting from time to time to no avail; I find it unnatural and difficult. I always figured it was because I was used to doing it my way, not because it was easier. I didn't switch for comfort reasons, and certainly I never dreamed it might prevent hemorrhoids later in life!
- andrewheins 16y agoLet's just say that this squatting thing really does have all the benefits that the article says it does. Does is occur to anyone else that instead of squatting precariously on a sit toilet, risking a fall and backsplash on the feet, one could simply put a stack of phonebooks or a kiddie stool in front of the toilet, and then put your feet on it while you take a dump? Same angle for the core/legs, but less danger.
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- kingkawn 16y agoMy grandfather, a physicist, had many odd friends. One of them was a Brit who in the 1950's invented a toilet that permitted squatting. He said of the work, "I believe the savages had it right all along." The toilet was never produced.
- frossie 16y agoOne of them was a Brit who in the 1950's invented a toilet that permitted squatting I do believe I have seen somewhere a flyer by the British National Health Service advocating putting one's feet on a (step)stool in order to achieve a more optimal position when using a traditional toilet. So perhaps his legacy lives on. (I am too scared to try and google for proof).
- RossM 16y ago> advocating putting one's feet on a (step)stool in order to achieve a more optimal position when using a traditional toilet I haven't seen the NHS flyer but I have seen a photo of a sign from Japan indicating that this is a good idea (also that you should rest your elbows on your knees and bulge your stomach out). I think it certainly helps things (this has got to be the oddest thread I've seen on HN in a while).
- helveticaman 16y agoSeed funds didn't exist in the 50s.
- stackthat 16y agoI lived in Turkey for a while and almost every house has one normal toilet and one old school toilets (hole in the floor) which hasn't got a place to sit so you have to squat. AFAIK also muslims prefer squating over sitting as it's the suggested practice, also they don't pee standing up (I think this is due to health reasons as well but can be about being clean,not sure). I always prefer squating over sitting however when you get old generally you need to sit as squatting is literally requires effort, many elderly people sits due to this. I can't imagine squating in a normal sit toilet, that's just dangerous.
- rue 16y ago> I can't imagine squating in a normal sit toilet, that's just dangerous. Only if you have trouble supporting your bulk, be it due to obesity or lack of muscle conditioning. Or balance issues, obviously.
- khafra 16y agoAre you imaginining standing on the seat, standing on the rim, or standing on the ground in a martial arts horse stance? Because I can see significant possible problems with all of these. (technically, problems with the last would be due to "lack of muscle conditioning," but not many people are conditioned well enough to stay in a horse stance for long).
- rue 16y agoThe rim. The seat, provided it is solidly built and attached. Anecdotally I feel quite stable either way. Edit: the trick to perching on various narrow surfaces, for me, is to have the heel on one side an the ball of the foot on the other. "Gripping" as it were.
- hasenj 16y agoBesides sitting vs Squatting, the other (and more important) issue with the western style toilet is the use of "papers" instead of bidet (water hose) for cleaning after oneself. At home we always install a home-made bidet: usually a water hose connected to the shower somehow with a mechanism to turn it on/off. When I'm in a public place, I try to avoid using public bathrooms. Sometimes I can't avoid it, like when I'm at work.
- talbina 16y agoThe article probably should have mentioned that squatting is still common in Muslim dominated countries. We squat because that's the cleanest way to release waste. We also squat when we urinate, that way no urine is splashed back to your pants, which happens when you stand and urinate.