5 ms·

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really

> “I personally am not sure what the solution is for these companies,” said Mr. Rosenzweig. “I don’t see a good answer because the Chinese government is really putting them between a rock and a hard place.” I don't think this is that hard of a decision, is it? Just say no and cut ties with efforts for China as a market. Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slowly pushed.

daodedickinson 9y ago
I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an end globally, and he now has indirect control of Hollywood to complete this agenda. The big internet controlling companies act like private versions of the Chinese government, and will increasingly be instruments of the Xi Jinping or else be destroyed by richer Chinese competitors. I hope I'm wrong about the boot being already planted on the face of humanity forever.
- droopybuns 9y ago
  >>1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments I have been befuddled by the behavior of young people on these axis for the last 10 years. This observation you’ve made is super seductive... but I think the more likely reason we are in this mess is that the younger gens are foundationally devoid of skepticism. I applaud your creativity though. It definitely could be a contributing factor.
  - Slansitartop 9y ago
    The grandparent is probably just mocking satire. I don't think any American, not even the most cartoonish millennial activists, wants to repeal the 4th amendment.
    - droopybuns 9y ago
      The gun debate over the last few weeks makes me think otherwise. Edit: I don't think they want to repeal it. I think they want to ignore it. In fact- I don't think anyone actually wants to go through the hassle of repeal for any of the previously mentioned amendments, which would be the right approach. They just want some magical executive order that usurps the constitution.
    - freedomben 9y ago
      I don't think we need to repeal anything now that the government just routinely ignores the Constitution when it conflicts with what they want to do.
    - UncleEntity 9y ago
      Well, unless the unreasonable seizures are being committed against "privileged" groups to guarantee equality of outcome (as opposed to equality of opportunity).
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    I knew lots of Chinese students in college. And I can tell you with quite a bit of certainty that most were far too busy studying to go out and organize or participate in political protest.
- tzahola 9y ago
  At least they sold us some cheap crap.
- lozaning 9y ago
  "China has passed the US in military technology" [citation needed]
- adventured 9y ago
  > now China has passed the US in military technology China hasn't come close to passing the US in military technology in fact. Technologically they're behind the US in: destroyers, submarines, helicopters, drones, laser weapons, satellites, integrated command systems, aircraft carriers, ICBMs and general nuclear weapon technology, tanks, bombers, jet fighters. In several of these categories, China is extremely far behind. The Germans, French, British and Russians also have countless military gear that is still technologically well ahead of China. Overall, Russia's military technology capabilities are well ahead of China. China still struggles with primitives like jet engines, which Russia has long since mastered. China still can't field a single long range aircraft carrier. Currently they're unable to push their military projection much beyond Japan and limited parts of the Indian Ocean. The US has true global force projection to practically every corner of the globe. Will China catch up? Plausibly; it'll take 30 years for them to build all the bases necessary to do it.
  - mistermann 9y ago
    I believe this war will be won economically/politically/socially, not militarily, and China holds most of the cards in those areas if you ask me. EDIT: Hey serial downvoter, do you realize you've missed a few?
    - jcranmer 9y ago
      If there's one thing history shows starkly, it's that trying to fight a war without getting militarily involved does not end well.
      - mistermann 9y ago
        Except for the cases where it went well and therefore doesn't register in your consideration.
biesnecker 9y ago
“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” Because they have a fiduciary duty to, obviously.
- HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
  Quoting Stalin? Classy. Have any good Hitler quotes you want to share while you're at it?
  - bsiemon 9y ago
    Just because Stalin was a monster doesn't mean that quote is bad.
  - lostconfused 9y ago
    Does he have any relevant to the topic in the first place?
  - oxryly1 9y ago
    Here's one: "The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it."
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    Stalin didn’t say it: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/
mark_edward 9y ago
When profits come up against morality, profits will win every time. How do you think we even got to this situation in the first place?
- nashashmi 9y ago
  Not just profits. Also influence. Each company wanted to spread it's products globally. Google tried this. But government kept blocking them causing slow internet. The miserable experience plus targeted hacking destroyed their morale for staying in.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Interestingly for Google, it didn't add up to much in terms of missing out. Much like Russia and Yandex, the odds were slim that Google was going to beat out Baidu on their own turf for various reasons. In the case of Baidu, they ended up being a non-threat outside of China. As China gets a lot more aggressive on censorship and content control in the coming years, Baidu's chances of truly going global will dwindle to zero. Lately Baidu has been looking at search as their past, because they know they've lost and hit a wall there in terms of any global search ambition, so they're burning their resources on trying to play in other categories vs Alibaba and Tencent. Meanwhile since Google was pushed out of China, they have become a near trillion dollar juggernaut. Since fiscal 2009, Google has grown from $23b to $109b in sales. They're about nine to ten times the size of Baidu and growing as fast. That's the cost of being stuck inside of China, while Google is stuck outside of China.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- hueving 9y ago
  This is not true. There are a bunch of businesses that use there moral positions as advertising to great effect. This is why Apple doesn't sell away your data, why every city is filled with local and organic restaurants, etc. The market does select for moral positions, you just might not like those positions.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
"Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slowly pushed." Counterpoint: Scrooge-McDuck-Money-Bin.gif

daodedickinson 9y ago

I think it's too late. Bill Clinton sold them enough tech in the 90s in exchange for defense contractor kickbacks that now China has passed the US in military technology. China has too much influence and money on too many US campuses and has students demanding repeal of the 1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments, which will help continue the growth of Chinese power. Xi Jinping is explicit in his goal to bring democracy to an end globally, and he now has indirect control of Hollywood to complete this agenda. The big internet controlling companies act like private versions of the Chinese government, and will increasingly be instruments of the Xi Jinping or else be destroyed by richer Chinese competitors. I hope I'm wrong about the boot being already planted on the face of humanity forever.

droopybuns 9y ago
>>1st, 2nd, and 4th amendments I have been befuddled by the behavior of young people on these axis for the last 10 years. This observation you’ve made is super seductive... but I think the more likely reason we are in this mess is that the younger gens are foundationally devoid of skepticism. I applaud your creativity though. It definitely could be a contributing factor.
- Slansitartop 9y ago
  The grandparent is probably just mocking satire. I don't think any American, not even the most cartoonish millennial activists, wants to repeal the 4th amendment.
  - droopybuns 9y ago
    The gun debate over the last few weeks makes me think otherwise. Edit: I don't think they want to repeal it. I think they want to ignore it. In fact- I don't think anyone actually wants to go through the hassle of repeal for any of the previously mentioned amendments, which would be the right approach. They just want some magical executive order that usurps the constitution.
  - freedomben 9y ago
    I don't think we need to repeal anything now that the government just routinely ignores the Constitution when it conflicts with what they want to do.
  - UncleEntity 9y ago
    Well, unless the unreasonable seizures are being committed against "privileged" groups to guarantee equality of outcome (as opposed to equality of opportunity).
- jjeaff 9y ago
  I knew lots of Chinese students in college. And I can tell you with quite a bit of certainty that most were far too busy studying to go out and organize or participate in political protest.
tzahola 9y ago
At least they sold us some cheap crap.
lozaning 9y ago
"China has passed the US in military technology" [citation needed]
adventured 9y ago
> now China has passed the US in military technology China hasn't come close to passing the US in military technology in fact. Technologically they're behind the US in: destroyers, submarines, helicopters, drones, laser weapons, satellites, integrated command systems, aircraft carriers, ICBMs and general nuclear weapon technology, tanks, bombers, jet fighters. In several of these categories, China is extremely far behind. The Germans, French, British and Russians also have countless military gear that is still technologically well ahead of China. Overall, Russia's military technology capabilities are well ahead of China. China still struggles with primitives like jet engines, which Russia has long since mastered. China still can't field a single long range aircraft carrier. Currently they're unable to push their military projection much beyond Japan and limited parts of the Indian Ocean. The US has true global force projection to practically every corner of the globe. Will China catch up? Plausibly; it'll take 30 years for them to build all the bases necessary to do it.
- mistermann 9y ago
  I believe this war will be won economically/politically/socially, not militarily, and China holds most of the cards in those areas if you ask me. EDIT: Hey serial downvoter, do you realize you've missed a few?
  - jcranmer 9y ago
    If there's one thing history shows starkly, it's that trying to fight a war without getting militarily involved does not end well.
    - mistermann 9y ago
      Except for the cases where it went well and therefore doesn't register in your consideration.

biesnecker 9y ago

“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” Because they have a fiduciary duty to, obviously.

HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
Quoting Stalin? Classy. Have any good Hitler quotes you want to share while you're at it?
- bsiemon 9y ago
  Just because Stalin was a monster doesn't mean that quote is bad.
- lostconfused 9y ago
  Does he have any relevant to the topic in the first place?
- oxryly1 9y ago
  Here's one: "The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it."
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  Stalin didn’t say it: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/

mark_edward 9y ago

When profits come up against morality, profits will win every time. How do you think we even got to this situation in the first place?

nashashmi 9y ago
Not just profits. Also influence. Each company wanted to spread it's products globally. Google tried this. But government kept blocking them causing slow internet. The miserable experience plus targeted hacking destroyed their morale for staying in.
- adventured 9y ago
  Interestingly for Google, it didn't add up to much in terms of missing out. Much like Russia and Yandex, the odds were slim that Google was going to beat out Baidu on their own turf for various reasons. In the case of Baidu, they ended up being a non-threat outside of China. As China gets a lot more aggressive on censorship and content control in the coming years, Baidu's chances of truly going global will dwindle to zero. Lately Baidu has been looking at search as their past, because they know they've lost and hit a wall there in terms of any global search ambition, so they're burning their resources on trying to play in other categories vs Alibaba and Tencent. Meanwhile since Google was pushed out of China, they have become a near trillion dollar juggernaut. Since fiscal 2009, Google has grown from $23b to $109b in sales. They're about nine to ten times the size of Baidu and growing as fast. That's the cost of being stuck inside of China, while Google is stuck outside of China.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hueving 9y ago
This is not true. There are a bunch of businesses that use there moral positions as advertising to great effect. This is why Apple doesn't sell away your data, why every city is filled with local and organic restaurants, etc. The market does select for moral positions, you just might not like those positions.

s73v3r_ 9y ago

"Any profits there are not worth jeopardizing all of the privacy and precedents that are being slowly pushed." Counterpoint: Scrooge-McDuck-Money-Bin.gif