4 ms·

Studying improves your odds of success. Video games improve your odds of failure. It's your choice.

by skookumchuck 9y ago

lisper 9y ago
That's true, but being in the right place at the right time improves your odds of success more.
- skookumchuck 9y ago
  So put yourself into the right place. There's a reason people move to Silicon Valley, for example. Put the video game console down, turn the TV off, get up and go to where the opportunity is.
  - kbutler 9y ago
    Yes, luck is a factor. If you roll once or twice, then say "It's just luck", you're completely right. But if you keep rolling the dice again and again and again, you're eventually going to get a good roll - especially if you can tweak the roll just a bit. Then you say, "Luck is important, but hard work helps, too."
    - lisper 9y ago
      > But if you keep rolling the dice again and again and again, you're eventually going to get a good roll No, this is a pernicious myth. A lot of people roll again and again and never get a good roll. Rolling the economic dice takes a lot of time. You can reasonably expect to get maybe 10 rolls before you age out. Even if the odds of success on each roll were 1 in 10 you'd still have a LOT of people (about a third actually) never getting a good roll. And the actual odds are considerably worse than 1 in 10.
      - skookumchuck 9y ago
        It's not at all a myth. Donate your video game console to Goodwill, get yourself educated, get out and try, and your odds increase enormously.
        lisper 9y ago
        > get out and try, and your odds increase enormously. That is true, of course, but increase relative to what? There is huge variance in the baselines, starting with, for example, whether you live in the U.S. or, say, Bangladesh.
  - lisper 9y ago
    That is easier said than done. The right place is usually only evident in retrospect. A lot of people move to Silicon Valley, work their freakin' asses off for decades, and still don't succeed. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it's hopeless and that you should just give up and play video games. But I believe that dumb luck is a bigger factor than effort. Luck is necessary, and can be sufficient for success. Effort and skill are neither. (And, BTW, this is a consequence of deep problems in the system we have set up, and we ought to try to change those. But you can't solve a problem without first acknowledging that the problem exists.)
    - skookumchuck 9y ago
      > But I believe that dumb luck is a bigger factor than effort. Make no effort, and your odds of failure are 100%. Your odds get better and better as you make smarter choices, put out the effort, and position yourself for success. > A lot Yeah, some fail. But most succeed in SV, the proof is in the housing prices.
      - lisper 9y ago
        > Make no effort, and your odds of failure are 100%. That's not true. There are plenty of trust fund kids shopping at Prada. > Your odds get better and better as you make smarter choices That is true, of course, but better relative to what? There is enormous variance in the baselines, starting with, for example, whether you live in the U.S. or, say, Bangladesh.
      - marnett 9y ago
        > the proof is in the housing prices. I feel like this statement gives more backing to the arguments on luck. Those lucky enough to by an apartment in the peninsula in the 80s, who are gaining the most off of soaring housing costs, are now reaping remarkable 'success' with no proof they predicted, with skill, foresight, or intellect, the housing market of 2018.
        skookumchuck 9y ago
        Those housing prices wouldn't be going up if there weren't an awful lot of successful people in SV.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    You're kind of ignoring all the reasons someone might be unlucky enough to be stuck in a certain place.
    - skookumchuck 9y ago
      There's opportunity on the internet, too.
- adventured 9y ago
  Right place at the right time is a stacker, like so many (most?) things. Being in the right place at the right time, is probably worthless without the necessary skill/s (where studying/learning/education can come in) and attributes to take advantage of the opportunity in question. Maybe you meet an elite investor in an elevator and have an opportunity to pitch them. You lack the technical skill or experience to bring it home. You perhaps never really had a shot at that right place + right time moment (so was it ever an opportunity at all? Is it a sliding scale? debate loop). Some of what we can be is defined at birth. If your brain wiring is very heavily tilted toward being an artist, you likely will not be the next John Carmack. Adrian Carmack could not do what John could no matter how hard he tried (I know they're not related, I couldn't resist). I know there are exceptions to these rules, they're exceptions however.
raleec 9y ago
My point is: Your experiences taught and reinforced that lesson. It's turtles all the way down.
- skookumchuck 9y ago
  You are not a slave to your experiences.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
    Your experiences is all there is, of course you're a slave to them. E: Actually I should say there are influences outside of experiences, genetics for example. But you're a slave to those as well.
    - raleec 9y ago
      And next turtle: your genetics are the encoded experiences of your ancestors...
    - skookumchuck 9y ago
      > Your experiences is all there is, of course you're a slave to them That's a fine excuse for being a loser. When you get tired of that, however, you can always choose better.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
        >That's a fine excuse for being a loser. When you get tired of that, however, you can always choose better. Insults are unnecessary. This kind of individualist, man-as-an-island concept is appealing but it isn't true. What are "you" made of that doesn't originate as something outside of your control? Of course it all was at the start, the way we get to feeling individualistic is by laundering our experiences, pretending that we made each decision a bit on our own and building that up into an end-person who makes decisions totally on their own. But of course that narrative isn't true.
kazinator 9y ago
Video games could give you a reaction time and coordination that could turn out to be life-saving.
ghthor 9y ago
I learned the communication skills to be a good remote employee from mmorpgs. I learned about systems design from playing video games and discussing how mechanics interact to encourage/discourage different behaviors. I hate this trope that playing video games is a negative.

Studying improves your odds of success. Video games improve your odds of failure. It's your choice.

lisper 9y ago

That's true, but being in the right place at the right time improves your odds of success more.

skookumchuck 9y ago
So put yourself into the right place. There's a reason people move to Silicon Valley, for example. Put the video game console down, turn the TV off, get up and go to where the opportunity is.
- kbutler 9y ago
  Yes, luck is a factor. If you roll once or twice, then say "It's just luck", you're completely right. But if you keep rolling the dice again and again and again, you're eventually going to get a good roll - especially if you can tweak the roll just a bit. Then you say, "Luck is important, but hard work helps, too."
  - lisper 9y ago
    > But if you keep rolling the dice again and again and again, you're eventually going to get a good roll No, this is a pernicious myth. A lot of people roll again and again and never get a good roll. Rolling the economic dice takes a lot of time. You can reasonably expect to get maybe 10 rolls before you age out. Even if the odds of success on each roll were 1 in 10 you'd still have a LOT of people (about a third actually) never getting a good roll. And the actual odds are considerably worse than 1 in 10.
    - skookumchuck 9y ago
      It's not at all a myth. Donate your video game console to Goodwill, get yourself educated, get out and try, and your odds increase enormously.
      - lisper 9y ago
        > get out and try, and your odds increase enormously. That is true, of course, but increase relative to what? There is huge variance in the baselines, starting with, for example, whether you live in the U.S. or, say, Bangladesh.
- lisper 9y ago
  That is easier said than done. The right place is usually only evident in retrospect. A lot of people move to Silicon Valley, work their freakin' asses off for decades, and still don't succeed. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it's hopeless and that you should just give up and play video games. But I believe that dumb luck is a bigger factor than effort. Luck is necessary, and can be sufficient for success. Effort and skill are neither. (And, BTW, this is a consequence of deep problems in the system we have set up, and we ought to try to change those. But you can't solve a problem without first acknowledging that the problem exists.)
  - skookumchuck 9y ago
    > But I believe that dumb luck is a bigger factor than effort. Make no effort, and your odds of failure are 100%. Your odds get better and better as you make smarter choices, put out the effort, and position yourself for success. > A lot Yeah, some fail. But most succeed in SV, the proof is in the housing prices.
    - lisper 9y ago
      > Make no effort, and your odds of failure are 100%. That's not true. There are plenty of trust fund kids shopping at Prada. > Your odds get better and better as you make smarter choices That is true, of course, but better relative to what? There is enormous variance in the baselines, starting with, for example, whether you live in the U.S. or, say, Bangladesh.
    - marnett 9y ago
      > the proof is in the housing prices. I feel like this statement gives more backing to the arguments on luck. Those lucky enough to by an apartment in the peninsula in the 80s, who are gaining the most off of soaring housing costs, are now reaping remarkable 'success' with no proof they predicted, with skill, foresight, or intellect, the housing market of 2018.
      - skookumchuck 9y ago
        Those housing prices wouldn't be going up if there weren't an awful lot of successful people in SV.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  You're kind of ignoring all the reasons someone might be unlucky enough to be stuck in a certain place.
  - skookumchuck 9y ago
    There's opportunity on the internet, too.
adventured 9y ago
Right place at the right time is a stacker, like so many (most?) things. Being in the right place at the right time, is probably worthless without the necessary skill/s (where studying/learning/education can come in) and attributes to take advantage of the opportunity in question. Maybe you meet an elite investor in an elevator and have an opportunity to pitch them. You lack the technical skill or experience to bring it home. You perhaps never really had a shot at that right place + right time moment (so was it ever an opportunity at all? Is it a sliding scale? debate loop). Some of what we can be is defined at birth. If your brain wiring is very heavily tilted toward being an artist, you likely will not be the next John Carmack. Adrian Carmack could not do what John could no matter how hard he tried (I know they're not related, I couldn't resist). I know there are exceptions to these rules, they're exceptions however.

raleec 9y ago

My point is: Your experiences taught and reinforced that lesson. It's turtles all the way down.

skookumchuck 9y ago
You are not a slave to your experiences.
- frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
  Your experiences is all there is, of course you're a slave to them. E: Actually I should say there are influences outside of experiences, genetics for example. But you're a slave to those as well.
  - raleec 9y ago
    And next turtle: your genetics are the encoded experiences of your ancestors...
  - skookumchuck 9y ago
    > Your experiences is all there is, of course you're a slave to them That's a fine excuse for being a loser. When you get tired of that, however, you can always choose better.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
      >That's a fine excuse for being a loser. When you get tired of that, however, you can always choose better. Insults are unnecessary. This kind of individualist, man-as-an-island concept is appealing but it isn't true. What are "you" made of that doesn't originate as something outside of your control? Of course it all was at the start, the way we get to feeling individualistic is by laundering our experiences, pretending that we made each decision a bit on our own and building that up into an end-person who makes decisions totally on their own. But of course that narrative isn't true.

kazinator 9y ago

Video games could give you a reaction time and coordination that could turn out to be life-saving.

ghthor 9y ago

I learned the communication skills to be a good remote employee from mmorpgs. I learned about systems design from playing video games and discussing how mechanics interact to encourage/discourage different behaviors. I hate this trope that playing video games is a negative.