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I enjoyed my sociology classes when I had to take them but I still haven't been able to get over the premise that asians sort've get hand-waved out of a lot of

I enjoyed my sociology classes when I had to take them but I still haven't been able to get over the premise that asians sort've get hand-waved out of a lot of statistics and it's okay because "they're a model minority in this country". I've got to assume that the theory which justifies it goes deeper than my intro level courses covered but it just seemed lazy and a bit racist when I learned it.

ancap 9y ago
Unfortunately, this is because accounting for Asians contradicts the desired political narrative.
- refurb 9y ago
  That's the real reason. "Minorities do worse because of racial discrimination" doesn't really fly when Asians do better than whites on numerous metrics.
  - vkou 9y ago
    Asians are a huge group of people. The academic and economic success of people from south-east Asia is vastly different from those that come from northern Asia.
    - adventured 9y ago
      That's a poor excuse not to break out and list their extraordinary success. Asians lead in median personal income, median personal wealth, household income, household wealth, life expectancy, employment, lowest crime, education attainment, etc. Hispanics are a huge and diverse group of people too. Yet they almost universally get lumped in together.
  - southphillyman 9y ago
    >Asians do better than whites on numerous metrics As do immigrant Nigerians, who are presumably included. All minorities aren't subject to the same levels of discrimination. This should be obvious given the historical context which drives much of the discrimination. I don't think it is a coincidence that the model minority stereotype was created at the height of the Civil Rights movement.
    - refurb 9y ago
      If immigrant Nigerians do well, what type of discrimination are you talking about? It can't be based on skin color if what you said is true.
      - Retric 9y ago
        Sure it can as long as it makes success harder but not impossible. You are looking at a self selecting population which need not look like the norms of either the US or Nigeria. Really, immigrants and the direct children of immigrants tend to do well in the US as long as they are not part of a mass migration.
emodendroket 9y ago
Often Asian immigrants are starting off well educated; you can't just hire a coyote and cross the land border. Also, it'd be instructive, I think, to compare Korean immigrants to the US (who generally have high educational achievement, income, etc.) with Zainichi Koreans in Japan (who show poor scores on these metrics). Surely something more is going on than just ethnicity.
- em500 9y ago
  > Often Asian immigrants are starting off well educated; Do you have any data on this?
  - sotojuan 9y ago
    Would like to see this as well. Most of my second and even first generation Asian friends' parents came to the US with no education and worked low pay service jobs. While they were working 10-12 hours a day, my friends excelled in school and their career.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/college-educated-immigrants-united-states#Age https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/college-educated-imm..., Race and Ethnicity, Country Origin > Asians accounted for 46 percent of the total college-educated immigrant population, followed by whites (28 percent) and Latinos (17 percent). In contrast, an overwhelming majority of native college-educated individuals were white (85 percent), while minorities, particularly Asians and Latinos, were underrepresented (see Figure 2). > In 2014, the top three countries of origin for college-educated immigrants were India (14 percent), China (including Hong Kong, about 8 percent), and the Philippines (8 percent, see Figure 3). The top ten countries of birth accounted for 52 percent of all college-educated immigrants. Given the greater difficulty it makes intuitive sense.
zombieprocesses 9y ago
Asians get hand-waved out of statistics for the same reason native americans. There aren't that many asians in the US. As the asian population increases, I'm sure you'll see more analysis. Keep in mind asians were barred from immigrating to the US for much of the 20th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 The asian population in the US was effectively 0% ( less than 1% ) for most of the 20th century. It wasn't until the 1970s that immigrants from asia started arriving. Also, asians ( particularly asian women ) marry outside their race, so that stagnates the US asian population and hence limits the statistical analysis that can or will be done. Maybe racism was a reason decades ago, but it isn't why asians aren't included in these stats. It's because there aren't that many asians in the US. Edit: You will find asians in data where there are significant asian population - california/hawaii and college population. But generally, in overall US population stats, asians are left out because of their low population numbers.
- analyst74 9y ago
  Is 21 million (according to 2015 census) an insignificant number? http://fortune.com/2016/06/23/census-bureau-race-age/ http://fortune.com/2016/06/23/census-bureau-race-age/
  - zombieprocesses 9y ago
    > Is 21 million (according to 2015 census) an insignificant number? 21 million out of 350 million is a very insignificant number. Also, that number is grouping chinese, japanese and koreans with indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis. Do you think chinese and indians are the same race?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    It's a significant number, but it's a small proportion, meaning you need a very large general sample or to oversample Asians to get meaningful results for them.

ancap 9y ago

Unfortunately, this is because accounting for Asians contradicts the desired political narrative.

refurb 9y ago
That's the real reason. "Minorities do worse because of racial discrimination" doesn't really fly when Asians do better than whites on numerous metrics.
- vkou 9y ago
  Asians are a huge group of people. The academic and economic success of people from south-east Asia is vastly different from those that come from northern Asia.
  - adventured 9y ago
    That's a poor excuse not to break out and list their extraordinary success. Asians lead in median personal income, median personal wealth, household income, household wealth, life expectancy, employment, lowest crime, education attainment, etc. Hispanics are a huge and diverse group of people too. Yet they almost universally get lumped in together.
- southphillyman 9y ago
  >Asians do better than whites on numerous metrics As do immigrant Nigerians, who are presumably included. All minorities aren't subject to the same levels of discrimination. This should be obvious given the historical context which drives much of the discrimination. I don't think it is a coincidence that the model minority stereotype was created at the height of the Civil Rights movement.
  - refurb 9y ago
    If immigrant Nigerians do well, what type of discrimination are you talking about? It can't be based on skin color if what you said is true.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Sure it can as long as it makes success harder but not impossible. You are looking at a self selecting population which need not look like the norms of either the US or Nigeria. Really, immigrants and the direct children of immigrants tend to do well in the US as long as they are not part of a mass migration.

emodendroket 9y ago

Often Asian immigrants are starting off well educated; you can't just hire a coyote and cross the land border. Also, it'd be instructive, I think, to compare Korean immigrants to the US (who generally have high educational achievement, income, etc.) with Zainichi Koreans in Japan (who show poor scores on these metrics). Surely something more is going on than just ethnicity.

em500 9y ago
> Often Asian immigrants are starting off well educated; Do you have any data on this?
- sotojuan 9y ago
  Would like to see this as well. Most of my second and even first generation Asian friends' parents came to the US with no education and worked low pay service jobs. While they were working 10-12 hours a day, my friends excelled in school and their career.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/college-educated-immigrants-united-states#Age https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/college-educated-imm..., Race and Ethnicity, Country Origin > Asians accounted for 46 percent of the total college-educated immigrant population, followed by whites (28 percent) and Latinos (17 percent). In contrast, an overwhelming majority of native college-educated individuals were white (85 percent), while minorities, particularly Asians and Latinos, were underrepresented (see Figure 2). > In 2014, the top three countries of origin for college-educated immigrants were India (14 percent), China (including Hong Kong, about 8 percent), and the Philippines (8 percent, see Figure 3). The top ten countries of birth accounted for 52 percent of all college-educated immigrants. Given the greater difficulty it makes intuitive sense.

zombieprocesses 9y ago

Asians get hand-waved out of statistics for the same reason native americans. There aren't that many asians in the US. As the asian population increases, I'm sure you'll see more analysis. Keep in mind asians were barred from immigrating to the US for much of the 20th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924 The asian population in the US was effectively 0% ( less than 1% ) for most of the 20th century. It wasn't until the 1970s that immigrants from asia started arriving. Also, asians ( particularly asian women ) marry outside their race, so that stagnates the US asian population and hence limits the statistical analysis that can or will be done. Maybe racism was a reason decades ago, but it isn't why asians aren't included in these stats. It's because there aren't that many asians in the US. Edit: You will find asians in data where there are significant asian population - california/hawaii and college population. But generally, in overall US population stats, asians are left out because of their low population numbers.

analyst74 9y ago
Is 21 million (according to 2015 census) an insignificant number? http://fortune.com/2016/06/23/census-bureau-race-age/ http://fortune.com/2016/06/23/census-bureau-race-age/
- zombieprocesses 9y ago
  > Is 21 million (according to 2015 census) an insignificant number? 21 million out of 350 million is a very insignificant number. Also, that number is grouping chinese, japanese and koreans with indians, pakistanis and bangladeshis. Do you think chinese and indians are the same race?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  It's a significant number, but it's a small proportion, meaning you need a very large general sample or to oversample Asians to get meaningful results for them.