10 ms·

People of China, speak up, rise up. You deserve better than this. Chinese people should have the freedom to choose where they can visit and what content they ca

People of China, speak up, rise up. You deserve better than this. Chinese people should have the freedom to choose where they can visit and what content they can consume and who they want to lead the country forward. http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-south-korea-tourism-20180228-htmlstory.html http://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-china-south-korea-to...

typon 9y ago
1. It's hard to speak up when it could literally mean life or death. 2. Why don't the people of the USA speak up and urge their government to stop the aggression against North Korea? The US's aggression/imperial attitudes are a major reason why China would be uneasy with this missile defense system.
- adventured 9y ago
  South Korea GDP per capita: $27,500 North Korea GDP per capita: $500 There's definitely some aggression going on against the North Korean people.
- sidcool 9y ago
  I am not sure why you are getting downvoted without rebuttals.
  - jerf 9y ago
    The mention of North Korea. The first sentence would be unobjectionable and true. If nothing else it's a violation of the putative local norms in which you really shouldn't bring an unrelated political hotbutton topic in to a discussion. Though I am both aware of the fact that rule is a great deal more nuanced in its connotations than its denotations, and the fact that whether it is "unrelated" is a matter of debate. (Though personally I'd submit that the evidence is that China would be cracking down regardless of the state of North Korea in any way shape or form, so yes, it's unrelated.)
    - typon 9y ago
      It's not unrelated at all. The original comment posted a link that's actually unrelated to the current topic of discussion (it's not about China-South Korea relations, it's about Xi consolidating power). Then using that link, the commenter tried to make a larger point about how Chinese people need to "speak up". I'm making a similar point and showing why "speaking up" is hard by showing how the Americans haven't done so in the same conflict, where they are actually to blame rather than the Chinese.
      - jerf 9y ago
        Americans aren't "speaking up" about North Korea, because on average, they don't care and don't want to speak up. Note the difference between the observation that they don't care, and the claim they shouldn't care. I'm just making the first one here. You may believe that is wrong, but it won't change the facts on the ground. As a result, it's not a relevant comparison, because there's no coercion in the case you cite.
- Qworg 9y ago
  While I agree with your initial argument (#1), whataboutism is a plague.
- risotto_groupon 9y ago
  Many people in the USA do speak up and urge the government to stop the aggression against North Korea. People who do so are respected in the US by their fellow citizens and their ability to speak up, organize, protest in a non-violent way is protected by law. In practice the local police have really screwed up protecting people's rights in recent years but it doesn't change the fact that achieving big goals like changing US foreign policy is HARD. The difference is in the US change like this is HARD. Not necessarily DANGEROUS. If you can achieve political action and change you are RESPECTED because it is HARD. You are not FEARED because you are DANGEROUS.
  - typon 9y ago
    Is there a difference between HARD and DANGEROUS when the outcome is similar?
    - risotto_groupon 9y ago
      I'm gonna go with, yes? I'd rather be disappointed and frustrated than on the back of a milk carton.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - mr_spothawk 9y ago
      Hard is a life's work... e.g. WhataboutBerni, bro!?!?! Dangerous is a car bomb... e.g. those journalists nobody ever talks about. * flag my balls you cunt!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
vinceguidry 9y ago
They do speak up. A lot. Protests happen in China. CCCP don't care. They just clamp down on the protests.
longcommonname 9y ago
It's spelled Chia* please respect their rules.
- Noos 9y ago
  Ch-Ch-Chia! It's the superpower that grows! https://youtu.be/tzY7qQFij_M https://youtu.be/tzY7qQFij_M (for the reference)
  - mr_spothawk 9y ago
    they used to give it away on bald ceramic heads... now it's a superfood. marketing is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity.
yegle 9y ago
If you played Civ5: no ideology is inheritly wrong. As long as the "public opinion" is "content", people would be happy with it. Player would intentionally choose Order or Autocracy to gain some "Tenets". E.g. Order usually gets you better productivity and Autocracy usually gets you better military power. Right now people in China are mostly content with the current ideology. This design actually matches reality very well: while US apparently chose Freedom ideology, China chose Order ideology. China would finish impressive large project faster and more efficient, with the cost of dictatorship. http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5) http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5) (Civ5 got a lot of these right, including a technology called "the Great Firewall" to counter the cultural influence from other civilizations http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Firewall_(Civ5) http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Firewall_(Civ5) )
- landryraccoon 9y ago
  Civ is a computer game. Among other ways your analogy breaks down, the designers had to make all the ideologies more or less equally viable for game balance reasons. In real life you cannot argue that autocracy and freedom of order are equally viable ideologies (and what do those things even mean in real life, they aren’t as well specified as in a game).
  - yegle 9y ago
    I do not agree there's a superior ideology. But unfortunately I'm not a researcher in this area so cannot provide more insight.
- reificator 9y ago
  Nothing against One More Turn Simulator, but I don't think you should really use it as a lens to view modern society through its mechanics. It's an abstraction to allow for fun and balanced gameplay.
- WillPostForFood 9y ago
  It’s a game that is intentionally designed for balance (wouldn’t be very fun if there was only one path to win). So I’d be cautious about extrapolating to the real world.
solotronics 9y ago
Political dissidents are imprisioned, forced into labor, and have their organs harvested so maybe speaking up isn't always prudent for them. The last time there was a big organized push for democracy was the Student Protests which led to the Tianimen Square massacre "US Government files declassified in 2014 estimated there had been 10,454 deaths and 40,000 injured. This figure was from internal Chinese government files obtained from the Chinese government headquarters in Zhongnanhai." edit: I am not saying its impossible to fight for individual liberties there but it is definitely nothing like the west.
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  thank goodness there's no 2nd amendment in China. that'd be a weird sort of bloodbath!
tyjen 9y ago
Unfortunately, speaking up in China involves high-risk and low-reward. Even if an activist becomes influential, chances are they will be sent to reeducation camps like, Loving Kindness School, a political reeducation center in the city of Horgos.

typon 9y ago

1. It's hard to speak up when it could literally mean life or death. 2. Why don't the people of the USA speak up and urge their government to stop the aggression against North Korea? The US's aggression/imperial attitudes are a major reason why China would be uneasy with this missile defense system.

adventured 9y ago
South Korea GDP per capita: $27,500 North Korea GDP per capita: $500 There's definitely some aggression going on against the North Korean people.
sidcool 9y ago
I am not sure why you are getting downvoted without rebuttals.
- jerf 9y ago
  The mention of North Korea. The first sentence would be unobjectionable and true. If nothing else it's a violation of the putative local norms in which you really shouldn't bring an unrelated political hotbutton topic in to a discussion. Though I am both aware of the fact that rule is a great deal more nuanced in its connotations than its denotations, and the fact that whether it is "unrelated" is a matter of debate. (Though personally I'd submit that the evidence is that China would be cracking down regardless of the state of North Korea in any way shape or form, so yes, it's unrelated.)
  - typon 9y ago
    It's not unrelated at all. The original comment posted a link that's actually unrelated to the current topic of discussion (it's not about China-South Korea relations, it's about Xi consolidating power). Then using that link, the commenter tried to make a larger point about how Chinese people need to "speak up". I'm making a similar point and showing why "speaking up" is hard by showing how the Americans haven't done so in the same conflict, where they are actually to blame rather than the Chinese.
    - jerf 9y ago
      Americans aren't "speaking up" about North Korea, because on average, they don't care and don't want to speak up. Note the difference between the observation that they don't care, and the claim they shouldn't care. I'm just making the first one here. You may believe that is wrong, but it won't change the facts on the ground. As a result, it's not a relevant comparison, because there's no coercion in the case you cite.
Qworg 9y ago
While I agree with your initial argument (#1), whataboutism is a plague.
risotto_groupon 9y ago
Many people in the USA do speak up and urge the government to stop the aggression against North Korea. People who do so are respected in the US by their fellow citizens and their ability to speak up, organize, protest in a non-violent way is protected by law. In practice the local police have really screwed up protecting people's rights in recent years but it doesn't change the fact that achieving big goals like changing US foreign policy is HARD. The difference is in the US change like this is HARD. Not necessarily DANGEROUS. If you can achieve political action and change you are RESPECTED because it is HARD. You are not FEARED because you are DANGEROUS.
- typon 9y ago
  Is there a difference between HARD and DANGEROUS when the outcome is similar?
  - risotto_groupon 9y ago
    I'm gonna go with, yes? I'd rather be disappointed and frustrated than on the back of a milk carton.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mr_spothawk 9y ago
    Hard is a life's work... e.g. WhataboutBerni, bro!?!?! Dangerous is a car bomb... e.g. those journalists nobody ever talks about. * flag my balls you cunt!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

vinceguidry 9y ago

They do speak up. A lot. Protests happen in China. CCCP don't care. They just clamp down on the protests.

longcommonname 9y ago

It's spelled Chia* please respect their rules.

Noos 9y ago
Ch-Ch-Chia! It's the superpower that grows! https://youtu.be/tzY7qQFij_M https://youtu.be/tzY7qQFij_M (for the reference)
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  they used to give it away on bald ceramic heads... now it's a superfood. marketing is the best thing that has ever happened to humanity.

yegle 9y ago

If you played Civ5: no ideology is inheritly wrong. As long as the "public opinion" is "content", people would be happy with it. Player would intentionally choose Order or Autocracy to gain some "Tenets". E.g. Order usually gets you better productivity and Autocracy usually gets you better military power. Right now people in China are mostly content with the current ideology. This design actually matches reality very well: while US apparently chose Freedom ideology, China chose Order ideology. China would finish impressive large project faster and more efficient, with the cost of dictatorship. http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5) http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Ideology_(Civ5) (Civ5 got a lot of these right, including a technology called "the Great Firewall" to counter the cultural influence from other civilizations http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Firewall_(Civ5) http://civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Firewall_(Civ5) )

landryraccoon 9y ago
Civ is a computer game. Among other ways your analogy breaks down, the designers had to make all the ideologies more or less equally viable for game balance reasons. In real life you cannot argue that autocracy and freedom of order are equally viable ideologies (and what do those things even mean in real life, they aren’t as well specified as in a game).
- yegle 9y ago
  I do not agree there's a superior ideology. But unfortunately I'm not a researcher in this area so cannot provide more insight.
reificator 9y ago
Nothing against One More Turn Simulator, but I don't think you should really use it as a lens to view modern society through its mechanics. It's an abstraction to allow for fun and balanced gameplay.
WillPostForFood 9y ago
It’s a game that is intentionally designed for balance (wouldn’t be very fun if there was only one path to win). So I’d be cautious about extrapolating to the real world.

solotronics 9y ago

Political dissidents are imprisioned, forced into labor, and have their organs harvested so maybe speaking up isn't always prudent for them. The last time there was a big organized push for democracy was the Student Protests which led to the Tianimen Square massacre "US Government files declassified in 2014 estimated there had been 10,454 deaths and 40,000 injured. This figure was from internal Chinese government files obtained from the Chinese government headquarters in Zhongnanhai." edit: I am not saying its impossible to fight for individual liberties there but it is definitely nothing like the west.

mr_spothawk 9y ago
thank goodness there's no 2nd amendment in China. that'd be a weird sort of bloodbath!

tyjen 9y ago

Unfortunately, speaking up in China involves high-risk and low-reward. Even if an activist becomes influential, chances are they will be sent to reeducation camps like, Loving Kindness School, a political reeducation center in the city of Horgos.