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There is also the issue that often times preparing to commit one crime involves committing other crimes. It's something of a scale. Consider the following cas

There is also the issue that often times preparing to commit one crime involves committing other crimes. It's something of a scale. Consider the following cases: Arresting the guy who kidnapped someone. Arresting the guy in the act of trying to kidnap someone. Arresting the guy who set out to kidnap someone. Arresting the guy who is preparing his home to hold a kidnapped victim and is identifying a target. Arresting the guy who researched how to kidnap someone. Arresting the guy who has expressed strong interest in kidnapping someone. Which of these is wrong? I think we would generally agree the last two are, but which of the middle ones do we draw a line at?

nashashmi 9y ago
When is he a kidnapper? When he is A kidnapper who has yet to kidnap?
JoeAltmaier 9y ago
In US law, the treatment of each is very, very different. How about: someone planned, identified a target, went to do it and had a change of heart? Innocent in the US, because, well, no crime was committed.
- sitkack 9y ago
  What you describe is attempted kidnapping.
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    No, its going through some motions. If you don't make the attempt, its not an attempt. By 'change of heart' I meant they don't make contact, not that they 'let them go'.
- NutriSugar 9y ago
  What happens if they are caught before they have a change of heart. Say a kid is caught 10 steps from school grounds with a weapon and intent to attack the school. Would you say they haven't committed a crime since there is still 10 more steps that they could've had a change of heart before they were on the school grounds?
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > How about: someone planned, identified a target, went to do it and had a change of heart? Innocent in the US, because, well, no crime was committed. Of course, if two or more people are involved and only one has a change of heart and stops actively participating (but doesn't take active steps to foil the plan in motion) the one who backed out is still (along with all the others) guilty of conspiracy. And that's true even before anyone gets to the point where they could be individually charged with an attempt, as long as one overt act toward the criminal goal has been done, the whole group is guilty of conspiracy. And in the US, certain acts are often criminalized specifically when done with the intent to support some other target crime which is not negated by later backing out of the target crime (and in fact allows you to be arrested and convicted when you never got further than the preparatory act.)
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    Right, like posession of burglar tools etc.

nashashmi 9y ago

When is he a kidnapper? When he is A kidnapper who has yet to kidnap?

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

In US law, the treatment of each is very, very different. How about: someone planned, identified a target, went to do it and had a change of heart? Innocent in the US, because, well, no crime was committed.

sitkack 9y ago
What you describe is attempted kidnapping.
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  No, its going through some motions. If you don't make the attempt, its not an attempt. By 'change of heart' I meant they don't make contact, not that they 'let them go'.
NutriSugar 9y ago
What happens if they are caught before they have a change of heart. Say a kid is caught 10 steps from school grounds with a weapon and intent to attack the school. Would you say they haven't committed a crime since there is still 10 more steps that they could've had a change of heart before they were on the school grounds?
dragonwriter 9y ago
> How about: someone planned, identified a target, went to do it and had a change of heart? Innocent in the US, because, well, no crime was committed. Of course, if two or more people are involved and only one has a change of heart and stops actively participating (but doesn't take active steps to foil the plan in motion) the one who backed out is still (along with all the others) guilty of conspiracy. And that's true even before anyone gets to the point where they could be individually charged with an attempt, as long as one overt act toward the criminal goal has been done, the whole group is guilty of conspiracy. And in the US, certain acts are often criminalized specifically when done with the intent to support some other target crime which is not negated by later backing out of the target crime (and in fact allows you to be arrested and convicted when you never got further than the preparatory act.)
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  Right, like posession of burglar tools etc.