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Habeas Corpus has been suspended several times in US history. Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses Grant and FDR suspended habeas corpus. Habeas corpus after 9/11 is not w

Habeas Corpus has been suspended several times in US history. Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses Grant and FDR suspended habeas corpus. Habeas corpus after 9/11 is not what it used to be. ACLU has been fighting several cases of clear violations.

refurb 9y ago
Yes, but the key difference is we have separation of gov't power and institutions to actually challenge some of these things. When the gov't oversteps it's bounds and they get their hand slapped by the courts, that's the system working. Our gov't is made up of fallible humans, thus we're never going to get to the point where our rights aren't under threat. Compare that to China, where your best hope is you know someone in power who can try and put in a good word for you. I couldn't imagine living in a system like that where the juggernaut of gov't power is effectively unstoppable.
- Nokinside 9y ago
  Military Commissions Act seems to have passed the scrutiny of both legal and political part of the system. The legal battle has shifted permanently. It's now over details in particular cases, not over the generic principle. The notion of enemy is now in the US criminal law. The President of the United States has now the power to designate either US citizens for foreign citizens as enemy. The way it's defined includes not just combatants, but also "persons who are engaged in conflict against the USA" in general level. Expressing solidarity is enough.
  - adventured 9y ago
    What you're talking about - the erosions in the US system - is an extraordinary distance from where China is at already. You can't talk about Winnie the Pooh in China, or mispronounce the "ping" part of Jinping in the media. Those aren't jokes, that's indicative of China's rapid regression backwards. Over the last five years they've curtailed the few freedoms around business and expression that had been gained. Their economic & business agenda has entirely shifted as have the rules. Dictatorships have historically tended to only go one direction, and China is already a very, very low-rights nation.
    - Nokinside 9y ago
      I was not comparing. I was just pointing out that habeas corpus is not protecting US citizens from the government as it once did.

refurb 9y ago

Yes, but the key difference is we have separation of gov't power and institutions to actually challenge some of these things. When the gov't oversteps it's bounds and they get their hand slapped by the courts, that's the system working. Our gov't is made up of fallible humans, thus we're never going to get to the point where our rights aren't under threat. Compare that to China, where your best hope is you know someone in power who can try and put in a good word for you. I couldn't imagine living in a system like that where the juggernaut of gov't power is effectively unstoppable.

Nokinside 9y ago
Military Commissions Act seems to have passed the scrutiny of both legal and political part of the system. The legal battle has shifted permanently. It's now over details in particular cases, not over the generic principle. The notion of enemy is now in the US criminal law. The President of the United States has now the power to designate either US citizens for foreign citizens as enemy. The way it's defined includes not just combatants, but also "persons who are engaged in conflict against the USA" in general level. Expressing solidarity is enough.
- adventured 9y ago
  What you're talking about - the erosions in the US system - is an extraordinary distance from where China is at already. You can't talk about Winnie the Pooh in China, or mispronounce the "ping" part of Jinping in the media. Those aren't jokes, that's indicative of China's rapid regression backwards. Over the last five years they've curtailed the few freedoms around business and expression that had been gained. Their economic & business agenda has entirely shifted as have the rules. Dictatorships have historically tended to only go one direction, and China is already a very, very low-rights nation.
  - Nokinside 9y ago
    I was not comparing. I was just pointing out that habeas corpus is not protecting US citizens from the government as it once did.