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Old Smartphones Are a Problem for Apple and Samsung
- robomartin 9y agoThe ROI is negative for most users. I am still using a 4S. I see no compelling reason to upgrade. They have introduced absolutely nothing of value to me. In fact, in many ways they have removed value (phone jack). In other cases they have refused to add potentially useful functionality, a USB port and MicroSD slot being two simple examples. And how about multi-user capabilities so I can hand my phone to my kid or a friend and restrict what they can see and do? There's more but it seems like a waste of time to speak up, Apple, in particular, doesn't seem interested in listening --the headphone jack being a perfect example of this.
- lostgame 9y agoWhen they had the audacity to release an iPad 'Pro' without so much as a microSD slot or even just a USB-C port, it was almost as much of a slap in the face as their RAM-soldered, 16GB-limited MacBook 'Pro's...and I'm writing this from a 2017 MBP. Apple's obsession with form over function has gone way too far. The ecosystem used to be at least worth it in the mid-00's.
- wilsonnb 9y agoI mean, compared to the non-pro iPad line, the iPad pro has a larger screen for better multitasking, more RAM, faster processor, pencil support, and keyboard case support. I see no problem with calling it an iPad Pro, even if you're not the kind of professional that it's aimed at. There are also plenty of professionals who will not more than 16GB RAM in their laptop. Many are probably still using 8GB without a problem. Again, just because you need or want features that Apple isn't putting in their devices doesn't make their devices unworthy of the 'Pro' moniker.
- wilsonnb 9y agoApple has made huge improvements to the iPhone since the 4S. LTE, 802.11ac, much better cameras, the lightning port, bigger screens, faster processors, six times the RAM, four times the storage space, multitasking in iOS, 3D touch, multiple rear cameras, waterproofing, NFC for Apple Pay, wireless charging, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. There are of course going to be some people who aren't affected by those changes, but you're part of a very small minority and most users get a lot of utility out of their current iPhone compared to one that was released in 2011.
- Piskvorrr 9y agoOr, from the opposite side, the phone makers' failure to meaningfully innovate is not a problem for me, as their older models provide enough value.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoSeems like it's actually a problem for the owners of Apple and Samsung equity who have budgeted for ever increasing sales. Which I guess would partly eventually come down to 401k/IRA owners and pension funds.
- 6d6b73 9y agoI'm still rocking my Nexus 5 and see no need to upgrade it. Parts are cheap, performance is decent. I installed LinageOS, rooted the phone, removed GApps. Why would I want to spend $1000 on something that could break in a year, and that I will have no control over?
- BackwardSpy 9y agoI'm exactly the same. I'm using the white Nexus 5 that I bought on the day of release. I recently installed Lineage OS to bring some of the newer Android features in. I don't see myself buying a new phone for quite some time.
- fosco 9y agocan you recommend a guide for lineage OS - I am concerned I could break my phone permanently rather than get the installation correct. I have this problem --> https://xkcd.com/1586/ https://xkcd.com/1586/
- simmons 9y agoI'm glad I'm not the only one still using a Nexus 5. My only frustration is the delay between tapping on the screen and the desired action occurring (e.g. in Google Maps). Do you find that ROMs based on newer versions of AOSP make this older hardware sluggish?
- thinkythought 9y agoI would have used this phone forever if the battery life wasn't mediocre to bad. And yes, i put in a fresh battery that came well recommended. It took it from pathetic to just barely ok. It's a shame too, because just about everything else about the phone feels current. Even the design has held up well with the tiny bezels. I always wished someone had made an extended battery mod for these with a different back cover or something. Or that someone had figured out a trick like the S7 batteries in the galaxy S6...
- ggggtez 9y ago
- jostmey 9y agoI love my old phones because they were better! If old phones are a problem for Samsung and Apple, they have only themselves to blame. My Nokia candy bar phone and my iPhone 4 just worked! The interface was simple and intuitive. I can't say that about the latest iOS
- resonator 9y agoFor the last year I've been using old HTC phones from 2010. The HTC Wildfire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wildfire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Wildfire), then more recently the HTC Desire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Desire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Desire). If you accept that they won't do everything a modern smartphone can do, and limit how you use them to what they are good at, an old phone can be great. They take a bit of work to set up right. You need to find and download old APKs for the applications you want to use. All the one-click rooting tools have vanished from the internet (but I've been able to get root in adb using psneuter). Google Maps works great. Moon Reader is awesome for ebooks. SMS is good enough for messaging people (you need to tell your friends that you can't read emoji's). Google Authenticator looks even better. Applications of that era often had an offline mode so it doesn't matter much if their APIs are no longer compatible. MessagEase make an amazing keyboard and the latest version still supports Froyo. You can do CalDAV and CardDav with a little help. The default browser won't load a lot of modern sites because either it can't render the JS or it doesn't support the cypher that it's encrypted with. I keep JS disabled, and I don't care if I can't visit some websites. I found that the Wildfire's screen's white turned blue after they were heavily dropped. I broke three or four that way but it didn't matter much because I could always get replacements for around AU$20. The Desire seems to have a more sturdy screen but they have more circuit boards inside and I've had a harder time finding reliable phones. I buy them for about AU$30 so, still it's affordable to take a chance and buy them up until you can make a complete phone. If you're thinking about going back to a dumb phone, I think that an old smartphone running Froyo has most of the advantages of the dumb phone with none of the disadvantages of a smartphone (Gingerbread is probably good too but I haven't used it since it was current).
- Tsiklon 9y ago
- thisisit 9y agoThe article while acknowledging the popularity of older models but focuses on refurbished phone market. Which makes me wonder, doesn't Apple already sell refurbs and they can try to grow in this market?
- dvfjsdhgfv 9y agoIt's not 'love', there is simply no reason to replace objects only because that's the plan of the company producing them. It's much better for the environment if we purchase a good, durable, high quality device that will serve us for years, rather than buy low-quality thrash and replace it every year.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- cptskippy 9y agoYou're right and not all manufacturers will produce high quality devices or continue to support them. So in a market where some devices are high quality and some of those are well supported, how does a customer differentiate between high quality and low quality? Or well support and not well supported? The best strategy for a consumer is to buy a cheap device that meets their needs and if it doesn't then it was cheap enough that they can replace it.
- dmart 9y agoThere hasn't really been a must-have iPhone hardware feature since Touch ID. The faster speeds of newer models are nice, but for the vast majority of people, anything back to a 5S is perfectly adequate. And that's a good thing - encouraging a culture where everyone throws their phone away for the newest shiny thing every single year is incredibly wasteful, even if it is good for AAPL shareholders.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- minikites 9y agoThe cameras are quite good compared to the 5S but that's not as noticeable in increments.
- pertymcpert 9y agoI'd say it's much better than quite good, they're phenomenally better. The jump from 6 to X for me was huge.
- Slartie 9y agoTouchID was definitely one of the "must-have-new-phone-now" features that also triggered a buy for me. My iPhone upgrades always happened due to killer features (for me at least) being introduced. When I upgraded, I always bought the most expensive option with the largest flash memory built-in because I wanted these things to last until the next killer feature was ready for mass market, and the periods in between every device have been getting longer every time. iPhone 3G (3G networking) -> 2 years -> iPhone 4 (retina display) -> 3 years -> iPhone 5S (TouchID) -> 4 years -> iPhone X (FaceID and full-front OLED)
- jcadam 9y agoTouchID means nothing to me. I mean, it would be nice if it worked - I have to disable TouchID on my devices. It simply does not work on me. Though, I have trouble with fingerprint scanners in general (have to disable them on laptops also).
- blackflame7000 9y agoMy Lack of Enthusiasm for New Smartphones Is a Problem for Apple and Samsung
- jiojfekjl 9y agoThere's no reason to replace a phone when it works fine, and the replacement is hardly better. These companies have an economic incentive to encourage waste. Can we admit that these incentives are fucked up? Much of our society works this way. This is fucked up. Right?
- gooseus 9y agoWell, I'm sure they're only a few OS updates away from "convincing" people that their old smartphone is really the problem. The only reason I ever upgraded from the 4S is because iOS updates made opening my text messages (and every other transition) take 2-3 seconds. I only got an iPhone because I was going to do some app development, but eventually lost interest, partially because Xcode and the byzantine Apple certificate process made me hate life. I, personally, think smart phones peaked with the Palm Pre and WebOS. I honestly can't think of a feature I've seen in the last 5-8 years that has impressed me at all, maybe LTE?... the only things that have improved mildly are some specific apps and none of them seem like they should even need faster CPU or more RAM if OS updates included optimizations rather than bloat. But, perpetual growth economy! So you better believe that if they can't innovate a new killer feature to convince people to upgrade they'll be "innovating" a new killer usability degradation to do it instead.
- frankydp 9y agoI would also suggest that more performance in a phone is actually counter to the primary "killer" feature for all phones, which is battery life.
- imtringued 9y agoI'm not sure that's true. The faster CPUs are usually also more power efficient. The phone manufacturers use the increased efficiency to make the batteries smaller and reduce the overall size of the phone. Speculation: smaller battery = higher depth of discharge = faster degradation
- MrMember 9y agoMy first smartphone was a Motorola Droid. It was painfully slow and had horrendous battery life. Each successive phone I've owned since has steadily improved both usability and battery life. My current phone has twice the battery capacity of my original Droid but lasts much more than twice as long. A decade of efficiency improvements in both hardware and software has made a huge difference.
- colmvp 9y agoQuite frankly, I haven't felt a need to install new apps on my phone outside of needing inspiration for product/design development, hence I'll deliberately install pretty looking apps for the sake of learning interesting ways of showing information. But aside from that, I just need apps for communication (Whatsapp, Message, Email), video (YouTube, Twitch), discovery (Yelp), and shopping. That's it. So I don't feel a strong need to really upgrade that often. I feel like I'd prefer phone manufacturers having 2 year cycles so that they'd make bigger improvements.
- yoz-y 9y agoYou can always just ignore every other release, which is what most people do I suppose. I think that having more releases also enables manufacturers to find pitfalls earlier.
- fetus 9y agoinnovate! Apple hasn't done this for years
- white-flame 9y agoApple and Samsung's flawed expectations of the marketplace are a problem for Apple and Samsung. Don't put the blame on us.
- tonyedgecombe 9y agoI'm not sure it's Apple's or Samsung's expectations, rather their shareholders.
- beeskneecaps 9y agoStill rocking the iPhone SE. Fits in my hand, makes phone calls and loads fast. Don’t need to unlock it with my face.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- IntronExon 9y agoSame here, and they’ll pry it out of my cold, dead hands. I have a tablet and laptop for portable computing, I want my phone to be maximally portable, and a phone.
- Izkata 9y ago> Fits in my hand Quite a killer feature indeed. I have small hands; my almost-8-year-old smartphone is 4.5" x 2.5". I'm not sure I've seen any other smartphones that small in several years.
- jsl1212 9y agoWhat version of iOS are you running? I have an iPhone 6 which I absolutely loved until I made the mistake of upgrading to iOS11 recently.
- borgel 9y agoFWIW, my SE was fine with iOS 11.
- walterbell 9y agoSome reasons to use an older iPad with iOS10: - years of data trapped in functional 32-bit apps - iOS11 control center no longer turns off WiFi (security risk) - iOS11 airplane mode no longer turns off WiFi - iPad Pro 2 echo cancellation doesn't work (4 speakers, too close to microphones), works in iPad Pro 1 - iOS11 split screen needs more gestures to add frequently-used app, iOS10 = single swipe from right - iOS11 connection to WiFi captive portal disables external keyboard (!) Let's not get started on the Macbook Pro 2015.
- zimpenfish 9y ago> - iOS11 airplane mode no longer turns off WiFi Just tested this and it 100% turns off WiFi on 11.3b3.
- dagw 9y agoBy default, but you can easily accidentally change that behavior: https://www.macobserver.com/tips/quick-tip/airplane-mode-ios-11/ https://www.macobserver.com/tips/quick-tip/airplane-mode-ios...
- walterbell 9y agoThanks, that explains what is happening.
- amedvednikov 9y agoI think you mean mbpro 2016 (the first model with the touchbar).
- walterbell 9y agoRight, mbpro 2015 being the last "good" one.
- lobf 9y agoI was gonna say, I got the 2015 MBP and this is a great machine. So many ports!
- peterbraden 9y agoWhen they remove headphone jacks and innovate with weird shaped screens, then there's no real surprise that their sales are down.
- jimmies 9y agoI feel like there is something lost in taking pride in making stuff that are durable and usable for a long time. I remember when I was a boy, there was an ad for Electrolux washing machines in my country with the tagline "I wish everything is as durable as Electrolux." That was one among the few I was so impressed with. My family then really bought an Electrolux washing machine that lasted for 15 years. You know, it worked as a dumb washing machine. No smart iOT that I can start from smart hub, no firmware updates, no remote control from work, no touch screen. Even Apple was a symbol of longevity. My friend is still using his Apple laptop he bought in 2009. And now they slow phones down and not push new features to old phones, partly just to sell more phones (because they decided they won't charge for software updates, which cost money). I see people with cars that are produced a year ago can't talk to their phone. The whole idea of pursuing profit and selling as many products to get as much money as possible is, I think, part of why people are so worn out and tired nowadays with tech. People upgrade phones not because they want to, but because they have to. I used to be extremely frustrated by it - technology once was my joy, now it is just an endless loop of money grabbing tactics. Another gimmick, another "product" that says it improves my lifestyle, connect people and shit. People talk about great products on Youtube, turned out they were paid for it. Then I decided that either I do something about it, or I get defeated. Lately, I have been writing about software that works for a long time and create software that allows you to have new features on old cars. I made it extremely clear that it is free software and it is fun. Hackaday joked about my project as "Modern cars and head units are pretty fancy gadget-wise. But what if your car still has an 8-track? No problem." I love it! Those ideas seemed to be also extremely well received by HN crowd. I haven't received this much positivity and feedback in the last couple of years. I feel joy again in life - there is a surge in my willing to get up everyday to do free software, and not worrying too much about the trends or the money. After all, I have not been starving for money but I starved for a purpose. The other day when I made the demo video for it at 1PM, I haven't eaten anything for the day and my voice was trembling, but it got to #1 on HN, and I was so excited to show the world my idea. I didn't write this to shill my alpha level software and shitty writing. I don't want to link them here, if you are really curious you can check my submission history. But if you feel let down by technology lately, I would encourage you to go do free software and things that you think as right. It's good for your mental health.
- aerotwelve 9y agoWhen every major and regional US carrier moved away from subsidized two-year contracts a few years ago, I always wondered if this would be the end result. About 5-10 years ago, almost everyone I knew (including myself) had the newest phone every 18 months. It was like clockwork. Because why not? The flagship phones were only $200.00, and the older models were only slightly cheaper. Compare that to flagship prices today which can start at $800-900! I know that this was the "real" price of subsidized devices, and carriers covered the subsidies by charging more for service, but it did get the newest devices in the hands of regular people. Never before have I seen so many off-brand/cracked/falling apart phones being used as daily drivers.
- jkira 9y agoI feel like this is the real reason that new phone sales are down. At $200, getting a new phone every two years is a no-brainer. At $1000, it’s more like my desktop computer... maybe I’ll buy one every 4-6 years, it requires budgeting for (or debt), etc.
- acd 9y agoIt is planned obsolesce. Cell used to have user replaceable batteries. Cell phone now have glued to the device batteries, cases that cannot be opened by consumers. The screen is also glued to the cell phone frame so that is hard to replace. After a while the operating system of the cell phone either get slower or there is no security updates. Apple is fighting the right to repair your devices. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/apple-right-to-repair_us_5755a6b4e4b0ed593f14fdea https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/apple-right-to-repair_u... "Prevention of repairs" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
- overthemoon 9y agoI'm not convinced I need a surfboard-sized tablet thing that can take pictures of distant galaxies.
- manyoso 9y agoSmartphones have become a commodity, but the execs and shareholders of these companies are literally paid to not acknowledge that. That's why we get so many useless features that increase the complexity of the software for marginal (at best!) improvements. In fact, I think the pace of technological development and the ability of these mega-corporations to essentially copy what works has decreased the timeframes for all true innovations to become commoditized. Look what is happening to Tesla for instance! They come along with real innovations, but the head start they gained is being overtaken by the shortened timeframes necessary for others (Hello GM!) to come along and commoditize it. Soon the market will be absolutely flooded with all manner of EV's from the low-end to the high-end. The window to capture that head start value is shortening.
- Overtonwindow 9y agoiPhone 6 Plus here. It works. The battery is still good. Why upgrade? Three years strong.
- draugadrotten 9y ago> Why upgrade? Camera was the reason I upgraded from 6 Plus to 8 Plus. The new camera is a lot better, which matters to me since I've got kids.
- DoreenMichele 9y agoI don't fall in love to serve the profit motive of large corporations. Maybe they need a different business model if they think I should. <-- Snarky knee jerk reaction to title without even reading the article.
- digi_owl 9y agoI had a 4.x Android tablet until the USB port died (poor handling by owner basically), and i can't really get myself to buy a new one (did get a cheap Windows 10 tablet on a lark though, and frankly i am surprised how well it works even if i use mostly desktop software on it). Similarly i have a 4.x era Android phone that i use, that honestly i can't see a need to retire.
- DrScump 9y agoI had a 4.x Android tablet that I had bought to watch downloaded Amazon prime video episodes while at the gym and such, only to find it useless for that (it actually wouldn't work for files on SD storage until 5.0). The manufacturer wouldn't supply upgrades. So, I tried to root it to upgrade it. I bricked it in the process.
- digi_owl 9y agoAh yes, Android storage. When launched the concept seemed to be that "internal storage" was the emmc, while "external storage" was the SD card (or equivalent). Then came the idea of faking an SD card on the emmc via partions, but SD cards were still an option (but no standardized mount point any longer because it was used for the faux SD partition). Then came 3.1, and Google changed up the permissions such that "external storage" permissions only applied to the faux SD parition, and new "media storage" permissions were needed for actual SD cards (but still no official mount point, and the write to SD permission was reserved for system, aka bundled, apps). This state persisted until 4.4/5.0 where Google introduced the Storage Access Framework. Effectively the new name for accessing SD cards via the mediaserver APIs. The mediaserver being the daemon that indexes all user storage areas and makes the results available to music and video players (and also handles USB storage connections via the MTP protocol). Supposedly all this was done so people would no longer be surprised that they could not access the SD card from both inside the phone and the PC when connected via USB (because Linux requires that a partition is unmounted locally when exposed over the UMS protocol). But that would not require that more stringent media storage permissions. Frankly those permissions reeks of being introduced because of MAFIAA arm twisting. Not only is the naming interesting, but Google made a grand unveiling of their music and movie sections of the then Android Marketplace (now Google Play Store) soon after.
- jcadam 9y agoI still want a small, lightweight smartphone with an e-ink display. Phone, text, navigation, and email are my only must-have features, and an e-ink screen would be fine for those -- in fact, it would be superior to an LCD. All-day battery life, I could use it comfortably in direct sunlight (at the beach, in the car on a sunny day, etc). EDIT: it occurs to me that such a phone would be a great device for camping, hiking, etc. -- anywhere where you're going to be unable to charge your device for a while and/or outdoors.
- ra88it 9y agoMe too. What if a company made this? And made it repairable, with a removable battery, so that you could buy one and keep it forever if you wanted? And a little cottage industry could form around it for 3rd party accessories (which also would continue to work as long as you kept them repaired)? Are we not at the point where this seems like a novel idea and actually has a chance of "disrupting" the smart phone industry? edit: sorry, I just took a very specific thing that I want, and pretended you want it too, when the only thing we both necessarily want is an efficient, e-ink display on a small, lightweight phone.
- jcadam 9y agoYep, maybe not a big enough market for one of the established mass-market phone mfgrs to care, but possibly enough to support a decent niche (a la Pebble, etc.)
- sifar 9y agoWhat would be the price you and the GP be willing to pay for this ? What screen size do you expect ? I have been thinking about this lately - about building one for myself. I don't like andriod/ios smartphones and every time my phone breaks down for some non-replaceable component, I have to hunt for a new phone which isn't either. Something similar to this - http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartphone/ http://www.davidhunt.ie/piphone-a-raspberry-pi-based-smartph... Make it product worthy, with a browser and a simpler os which users can understand and modify. Which doesn't cripple the hw, exposes it to the user to exploit it, is modular so the parts can be swapped. But then I realize not using a smartphone would be a simpler solution.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Parcissons 9y agoWell they sabotage by software as best as they can. My LG3 will start to hum with notifications in the middle of the night because the accu is charged - and obviously its necessary to warn users with old accus out of theire sleep. Rooted and booted. Well at least we are wasting more efficient- communism would take forever to waste this much, for this little.
- janitor61 9y agoDoes this mean the "memory shortage" that has been inflating global RAM prices due to smartphone production demand might come to an end soon?
- neonate 9y agohttps://outline.com/jrkVcg https://outline.com/jrkVcg
- hesk 9y agoSince Apple sits on 285 billion dollars cash, it can't be that big of a problem.
- ggg9990 9y agoI don’t know about Android but Apple manages this quite effectively by nagging users to upgrade their OS, thus encouraging app developers to save money by targeting only the latest OS, thus making older iPhones unable to run most apps.
- kitsunesoba 9y agoMost iOS devs I’ve seen target the current version and previous version, but no further — usually 2 versions back is where you start to see the differences in features, available APIs, API behavior differences, etc getting large enough to really be a pain. Aside from saving dev money, being able to target only the last version or two is a real boon for indie/solo devs. It allows them to focus on improving functionality and fixing bugs instead of smoothing out version specific issues.
- dan-0 9y agoAndroid can't easily do this. Each manufacturer and even carrier often bakes in their own custom features to the OS. Rather than just Google pushing an OS update, Google has to post the update, then the manufacturer updates, then the carrier updates... finally allowing the user to have an updated OS. This process takes months and sometimes over a year to occur if it ever does. Apple meanwhile is the sole manufacturer for phones carrying their OS and as far as I'm aware severely limits the ability of carriers to customize the OS. This means updates are more or less instantaneously available. There are advantages to Android strategy though, primarily the cost to manufacture and field a device. Carriers and manufacturers can bundle their own ad/crapware into the device to offset costs. This comes at the cost of security and user experience. But, if you get a flagship "Google" phone, such as a Pixel, you get first access to updates without most of the compromises, however you're paying flagship prices. Not to diatribe too much, but as much heat as Android gets in these arguments, I think the Pixel models are very competitive against Apple when it comes to quality. As a developer though, the Android system is hell depending on what you're doing. We're on API 27 (8.1) and the amount of devices still on 21 (5.0) and below is nontrivial. Especially outside the US. The changes since 23 (6.0) are significant (and for the better), but to implement features across such a wide range of APIs leads to pretty significant bloat and maintainability issues. On the flipside, I have reasonable assurance an application I build right now will work on a device three years from now without modification, not so true with Apple.
- bfrog 9y agoIn reality the functional difference at this point is low for new devices. Also when you spend $1K on something you don't expect it to degrade so badly in a year or two like these devices do... And certainly have low incentive s to replace it
- paslnyc 9y agoMuch affordable and better specification phones are available in the market.