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What scares me more is the cheerleading and defense of this in the West, and the way this is voluntarily happening here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J

What scares me more is the cheerleading and defense of this in the West, and the way this is voluntarily happening here. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J24C0TI https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01J24C0TI This is a telescreen.

api 9y ago
China's GDP is doing great, and GDP growth is the only thing that matters to quite a few people.
- yusuke10 9y ago
  FAKE gdp. most likely 0% gdp growth, if not negative. China’s 2015 GDP Was Exaggerated By Fake Data, Analysis Shows (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/china-s-2015-gdp-puffed-up-by-fake-economic-data-analysis-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/china-s-2...) Another Chinese city admits 'fake' economic data (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-data/another-chinese-city-admits-fake-economic-data-idUSKBN1F60I1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-data/anothe...) This Is How China's Regions Fare in the Fake GDP Data Stakes (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-how-china-s-regions-fare-in-the-fake-gdp-data-stakes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-h...)
  - ShorsHammer 9y ago
    Two of your links suggest gdp growth of around 6% still. They fake data to move gdp fractions of a percent. Outright lying doesn't help further your argument. There's some excellent independent estimates of Chinas gdp out there.
  - dang 9y ago
    This account has only used HN to engage in political battle—in this case national battle about China. Regardless of what you're battling for, that's an abuse of the site as explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, so we've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break the site rules with.
jjaredsimpson 9y ago
Anonymity paired with speech is a new modern invention which didn't always exist. I don't this it is necessarily true that that kinds of speech is always for the ultimate good. I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. It just seems like the modern version of sitting around a fire face to face and not being an asshole.
- zentiggr 9y ago
  > I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. If only that surveillance didn't open up avenues for exploitation, targeting, and suppression even more. And I'm pretty sure we've got a little too much "cpmpliance" monitoring as we are right now... I'm ready for ALPRs, Stingrays, and a bunch of other LEO practices to get curtailed or even stopped outright.
  - jjaredsimpson 9y ago
    We can't only experiment with structures and tools that have only upside positive consequences. The existence of a bad outcome is something to be avoided and guarded against, but I don't see why any possible tool which has a potential to be abused should be avoided.
- gurkendoktor 9y ago
  Echo Show is not an anonymous broadcast platform. Using it to talk to friends is the modern version of doing it face to face; why do we suddenly need to have corporations or the government in the middle? It is true that societies are experimenting with policing what people say online; Germany's attempts to combat hate speech and fake news come to mind. But that is (hopefully) different from punishing political dissent. Do you honestly believe that it is better for society if people can't openly say "I disagree with removing presidential term limits"?
- gaius 9y ago
  I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. A listening device in private homes is a genie that won't go back in its bottle. Are you willing to stand up and say, I trust every official, elected or otherwise, for the rest of my life, and the lives of any descendants I might have? Because you have just written a blank cheque that says exactly that.

api 9y ago

China's GDP is doing great, and GDP growth is the only thing that matters to quite a few people.

yusuke10 9y ago
FAKE gdp. most likely 0% gdp growth, if not negative. China’s 2015 GDP Was Exaggerated By Fake Data, Analysis Shows (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/china-s-2015-gdp-puffed-up-by-fake-economic-data-analysis-shows https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-01/china-s-2...) Another Chinese city admits 'fake' economic data (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-data/another-chinese-city-admits-fake-economic-data-idUSKBN1F60I1 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-economy-data/anothe...) This Is How China's Regions Fare in the Fake GDP Data Stakes (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-how-china-s-regions-fare-in-the-fake-gdp-data-stakes https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-19/this-is-h...)
- ShorsHammer 9y ago
  Two of your links suggest gdp growth of around 6% still. They fake data to move gdp fractions of a percent. Outright lying doesn't help further your argument. There's some excellent independent estimates of Chinas gdp out there.
- dang 9y ago
  This account has only used HN to engage in political battle—in this case national battle about China. Regardless of what you're battling for, that's an abuse of the site as explained at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html, so we've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break the site rules with.

jjaredsimpson 9y ago

Anonymity paired with speech is a new modern invention which didn't always exist. I don't this it is necessarily true that that kinds of speech is always for the ultimate good. I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. It just seems like the modern version of sitting around a fire face to face and not being an asshole.

zentiggr 9y ago
> I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. If only that surveillance didn't open up avenues for exploitation, targeting, and suppression even more. And I'm pretty sure we've got a little too much "cpmpliance" monitoring as we are right now... I'm ready for ALPRs, Stingrays, and a bunch of other LEO practices to get curtailed or even stopped outright.
- jjaredsimpson 9y ago
  We can't only experiment with structures and tools that have only upside positive consequences. The existence of a bad outcome is something to be avoided and guarded against, but I don't see why any possible tool which has a potential to be abused should be avoided.
gurkendoktor 9y ago
Echo Show is not an anonymous broadcast platform. Using it to talk to friends is the modern version of doing it face to face; why do we suddenly need to have corporations or the government in the middle? It is true that societies are experimenting with policing what people say online; Germany's attempts to combat hate speech and fake news come to mind. But that is (hopefully) different from punishing political dissent. Do you honestly believe that it is better for society if people can't openly say "I disagree with removing presidential term limits"?
gaius 9y ago
I'm fine with societies experimenting with more surveillance with the aim of improving people's behavior. A listening device in private homes is a genie that won't go back in its bottle. Are you willing to stand up and say, I trust every official, elected or otherwise, for the rest of my life, and the lives of any descendants I might have? Because you have just written a blank cheque that says exactly that.