6 ms·

No.1 SMOG SMOG SMOG No.2 No google available Bring ten foreign maids won't fix that. I'll just pass.

by ausjke 9y ago

bsaul 9y ago
About the smog, i'm in shanghai right now, and i can tell you that the air is far less polluted than Paris, France. It's actually quite weird, because i thought the exact same thing as you regarding smog, i thought i would have to wear a mask for the duration of my trip. I was amazed at the number of electrical vehicle here (not a single motorcycle running on gas). Note that it may be due to the chinese new year holidays (although it's been over for two weeks now), or to the price of real estate that rose to such a level that nobody can live downtown anymore... I'm not sure the reason, but i was really really surprised.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  The city should be almost deserted during CNY. But right now at the moment of this post, Shanghai is worse than Paris: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/ https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/ (95) http://aqicn.org/city/paris/ http://aqicn.org/city/paris/ (66)
  - carlmr 9y ago
    It also depends on where in Shanghai and where in Paris. Also Shanghai and Beijing is a bit different.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      The AQICN pages with readings have maps so it’s easy to explore different areas if you want. The outskirts of Paris are mostly in the green(better air), the outskirts of Shanghai are yellow or orange (worse air).
  - bsaul 9y ago
    Thanks for the link, i was wondering if maybe shanghai had a different kind of pollution that i wouldn't notice (i can't really tell from the graph, but i think maybe pm10 is something that you'd feel more). Although they're both globally in the "yellow" range.. CNY is really over now. Some shops were closed last week, but everything's been back to normal for the last three days.. Also, Paris is experiencing a unusual freezing temperature, so maybe there's less activity. Do you know if there are some historical data on the site ? i'd be really interested to compare the days i left Paris with the day i arrived in Shanghai, because the difference was really amazing. EDIT : looking more closely at the shanghai map.. If the location is really precise, then it seems that the indicators are all set close to the huge circle roads surrounding the central city. If you want to compare that with the paris equivalent (and not the indicators next to the river), you'll find the same kind of values.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      CNY isn’t really over for another week or even two. The lull in traffic usually lasts for around three weeks. Even if the shops are open, many haven’t returned from vacation yet. Pm2.5 is the big killer that everyone is worried about these days. PM10 is larger particles like dust which should be less of a problem in SH. Historical data is included on site, but no easy way to compare them. There isn’t a place in shanghai that isn’t next to a major road, it’s a city of 10 million. They used to try and game the system by putting AQI stations out in the suburbs but these days those places actually have worse pollution.
      - bsaul 9y ago
        The big circles around shanghai are a completely different beast than just "major road". Just like Paris "périphérique" is in a league of its own. I've had a 6h foot walk just 2 days ago in shanghai (inside the first circle, travelling all around the city), and i can tell you the amount of dust i inhaled was nothing compare to what i'm feeling when i walk inside Paris. Now maybe CNY is a huge factor indeed, unfortunately i won't be there anymore to see for myself... All i can say then is that it's a great time to visit the city ! :)
- devy 9y ago
  Chinese New Year holiday week does indeed bring down traffics on the road just like what Thanksgiving night does on America's road. However, China's transportation electrification has been going on for at least half a decade, as this Deutsch Bank white paper indicated in 2012[1]. Anecdotally, I think the electrification transition started as far back as a decade ago (disclaimer: I visit China annually since 2007). [1]: https://www.db.com/cr/en/docs/China_GreenCars_080712.pdf https://www.db.com/cr/en/docs/China_GreenCars_080712.pdf
dbomhof 9y ago
Ha! - In the article that smoggy image was worth a 1000 clear breaths on this side of the pond.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  I guess you've never been to LA on a hot, windless summer day.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Moved to LA from Beijing, no comparison unless there was a forest fire going on.
  - kurthr 9y ago
    You can't even fairly compare LA in the 80s (where I lived) to Beijing (or Hebei) today, much less the "smogless" wonderland that is the valley of today. The winter smog (ignoring outliers like CNY or political events) is worse than you can imagine. Typical PM2.5 is in the hundreds... a bad day in the week might be 500, and once a year they break the instruments with 900+ measurements.
    - miketery 9y ago
      I can't infer whether 80s LA was worse or better than Beijing today from your comment.
      - kurthr 9y ago
        Sorry for the confusion, on the worst single day of smog I observed in Pasadena during the early 80s, the visibility was about as bad some 5-10 days I have observed in Beijing and multiple other cities in the last 2-3 years. It's not getting better, and it is so much worse than it was 15 years ago! I thought it was getting better in China this year... I really did, but then winter came and you could barely see across the street at midday. Southern California meanwhile went from months of missing mountains to a day or two here and there during the summer over the course of 10 years as catalytic converters became standard.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

No.1 SMOG SMOG SMOG No.2 No google available Bring ten foreign maids won't fix that. I'll just pass.

by ausjke 9y ago

No.1 SMOG SMOG SMOG No.2 No google available Bring ten foreign maids won't fix that. I'll just pass.

About the smog, i'm in shanghai right now, and i can tell you that the air is far less polluted than Paris, France. It's actually quite weird, because i thought the exact same thing as you regarding smog, i thought i would have to wear a mask for the duration of my trip. I was amazed at the number of electrical vehicle here (not a single motorcycle running on gas). Note that it may be due to the chinese new year holidays (although it's been over for two weeks now), or to the price of real estate that rose to such a level that nobody can live downtown anymore... I'm not sure the reason, but i was really really surprised.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
The city should be almost deserted during CNY. But right now at the moment of this post, Shanghai is worse than Paris: https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/ https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/ (95) http://aqicn.org/city/paris/ http://aqicn.org/city/paris/ (66)
- carlmr 9y ago
  It also depends on where in Shanghai and where in Paris. Also Shanghai and Beijing is a bit different.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    The AQICN pages with readings have maps so it’s easy to explore different areas if you want. The outskirts of Paris are mostly in the green(better air), the outskirts of Shanghai are yellow or orange (worse air).
- bsaul 9y ago
  Thanks for the link, i was wondering if maybe shanghai had a different kind of pollution that i wouldn't notice (i can't really tell from the graph, but i think maybe pm10 is something that you'd feel more). Although they're both globally in the "yellow" range.. CNY is really over now. Some shops were closed last week, but everything's been back to normal for the last three days.. Also, Paris is experiencing a unusual freezing temperature, so maybe there's less activity. Do you know if there are some historical data on the site ? i'd be really interested to compare the days i left Paris with the day i arrived in Shanghai, because the difference was really amazing. EDIT : looking more closely at the shanghai map.. If the location is really precise, then it seems that the indicators are all set close to the huge circle roads surrounding the central city. If you want to compare that with the paris equivalent (and not the indicators next to the river), you'll find the same kind of values.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    CNY isn’t really over for another week or even two. The lull in traffic usually lasts for around three weeks. Even if the shops are open, many haven’t returned from vacation yet. Pm2.5 is the big killer that everyone is worried about these days. PM10 is larger particles like dust which should be less of a problem in SH. Historical data is included on site, but no easy way to compare them. There isn’t a place in shanghai that isn’t next to a major road, it’s a city of 10 million. They used to try and game the system by putting AQI stations out in the suburbs but these days those places actually have worse pollution.
    - bsaul 9y ago
      The big circles around shanghai are a completely different beast than just "major road". Just like Paris "périphérique" is in a league of its own. I've had a 6h foot walk just 2 days ago in shanghai (inside the first circle, travelling all around the city), and i can tell you the amount of dust i inhaled was nothing compare to what i'm feeling when i walk inside Paris. Now maybe CNY is a huge factor indeed, unfortunately i won't be there anymore to see for myself... All i can say then is that it's a great time to visit the city ! :)
devy 9y ago
Chinese New Year holiday week does indeed bring down traffics on the road just like what Thanksgiving night does on America's road. However, China's transportation electrification has been going on for at least half a decade, as this Deutsch Bank white paper indicated in 2012[1]. Anecdotally, I think the electrification transition started as far back as a decade ago (disclaimer: I visit China annually since 2007). [1]: https://www.db.com/cr/en/docs/China_GreenCars_080712.pdf https://www.db.com/cr/en/docs/China_GreenCars_080712.pdf

dbomhof 9y ago

Ha! - In the article that smoggy image was worth a 1000 clear breaths on this side of the pond.

craftyguy 9y ago
I guess you've never been to LA on a hot, windless summer day.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Moved to LA from Beijing, no comparison unless there was a forest fire going on.
- kurthr 9y ago
  You can't even fairly compare LA in the 80s (where I lived) to Beijing (or Hebei) today, much less the "smogless" wonderland that is the valley of today. The winter smog (ignoring outliers like CNY or political events) is worse than you can imagine. Typical PM2.5 is in the hundreds... a bad day in the week might be 500, and once a year they break the instruments with 900+ measurements.
  - miketery 9y ago
    I can't infer whether 80s LA was worse or better than Beijing today from your comment.
    - kurthr 9y ago
      Sorry for the confusion, on the worst single day of smog I observed in Pasadena during the early 80s, the visibility was about as bad some 5-10 days I have observed in Beijing and multiple other cities in the last 2-3 years. It's not getting better, and it is so much worse than it was 15 years ago! I thought it was getting better in China this year... I really did, but then winter came and you could barely see across the street at midday. Southern California meanwhile went from months of missing mountains to a day or two here and there during the summer over the course of 10 years as catalytic converters became standard.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]