5 ms·

Other than the visa-related benefits, what type of monetary benefits do foreigners get for moving to China?

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Pay is pretty good (about 70% of Seattle) while living costs are low. I was able to save about 30-40% of my take home over almost 10 years.
- kbwt 9y ago
  So China pays much better than Western Europe? Is this actually true?
  - baby 9y ago
    If you're in HongKong probably.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Hong Kong doesn’t pay programmers as well as Shenzhen outside of a few banking related jobs. Not a good comparison. HK is more of a business/banking center, so programmers don’t have as much status as they do across the border in Shenzhen.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Western Europe sans Switzerland doesn’t pay very high, so ya. You’ll see more Europeans working tech in china than Americans. Likewise, Japan, Taiwan, and Korea also generally don’t pay programmers as much as China does, so you’ll see foreigners from those countries working in China (and the fact that they are next door).
  - richardknop 9y ago
    Yes. HK, Shenzhen, Beijing, Shanghai pay on par or better, especially if you are in finance / fintech / AI.
- dcldcl 9y ago
  I've spoken to tech workers from Beijing and my impression from them is the cost to purchase homes was on par (if not higher) than SV (and Seattle). Is rent that much cheaper?
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Yes! You can rent an apartment that retails for a million dollars for $1500/month or less. It is just a huge property bubble, actual residential demand isn’t that strong.
  - baybal2 9y ago
    Yes, but.... there is a lot of but there: Technically speaking (literally), a shack in Gangxia, Shenzhen can have market value from $1m to $2m, but nobody will ever sell it. They have no value other than of land under them. Rents for a room there were around CNY400 per month 5 years ago. 80ies era apartments - also cheap, but quite a lot of them are in even worse shape than property in villages. post 2000 housing - gets better, actually livable somewhat. Look for 4k CNY in good locations. Western like proper highrise apartments - no less than 9k, availability is smallish. Everybody is looking for then. I was looking for one in Huafu area, but they just go too fast to even get sense of a price
- Slansitartop 9y ago
  > while living costs are low. Are you sure? From what I've seen, Shanghai real estate is comparably expensive to SF.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Only if you buy. Rents definitely aren’t. Shanghai and Shenzhen are worse than Beijing on rents, but not incredibly so, you won’t find $4000/month one bedroom apartments unless it’s some kind of luxury skyscraper. $2000/month for a nice two bedroom is easy, you could probably go lower than that and still be in a decent location.
    - cromwellian 9y ago
      I had a place in 老西门 that was about $3000, not a luxury skyscraper, but owned by a French landlord, I think the closer you are to large ex-pat populations, the more expensive.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Ya, if you are in the French Concession in Shanghai, it can get a bit pricey I guess. Beijing really has nothing like that, well I guess you could try living in Sanlitun or something.

Pay is pretty good (about 70% of Seattle) while living costs are low. I was able to save about 30-40% of my take home over almost 10 years.

kbwt 9y ago
So China pays much better than Western Europe? Is this actually true?
- baby 9y ago
  If you're in HongKong probably.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Hong Kong doesn’t pay programmers as well as Shenzhen outside of a few banking related jobs. Not a good comparison. HK is more of a business/banking center, so programmers don’t have as much status as they do across the border in Shenzhen.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Western Europe sans Switzerland doesn’t pay very high, so ya. You’ll see more Europeans working tech in china than Americans. Likewise, Japan, Taiwan, and Korea also generally don’t pay programmers as much as China does, so you’ll see foreigners from those countries working in China (and the fact that they are next door).
- richardknop 9y ago
  Yes. HK, Shenzhen, Beijing, Shanghai pay on par or better, especially if you are in finance / fintech / AI.
dcldcl 9y ago
I've spoken to tech workers from Beijing and my impression from them is the cost to purchase homes was on par (if not higher) than SV (and Seattle). Is rent that much cheaper?
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Yes! You can rent an apartment that retails for a million dollars for $1500/month or less. It is just a huge property bubble, actual residential demand isn’t that strong.
- baybal2 9y ago
  Yes, but.... there is a lot of but there: Technically speaking (literally), a shack in Gangxia, Shenzhen can have market value from $1m to $2m, but nobody will ever sell it. They have no value other than of land under them. Rents for a room there were around CNY400 per month 5 years ago. 80ies era apartments - also cheap, but quite a lot of them are in even worse shape than property in villages. post 2000 housing - gets better, actually livable somewhat. Look for 4k CNY in good locations. Western like proper highrise apartments - no less than 9k, availability is smallish. Everybody is looking for then. I was looking for one in Huafu area, but they just go too fast to even get sense of a price
Slansitartop 9y ago
> while living costs are low. Are you sure? From what I've seen, Shanghai real estate is comparably expensive to SF.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Only if you buy. Rents definitely aren’t. Shanghai and Shenzhen are worse than Beijing on rents, but not incredibly so, you won’t find $4000/month one bedroom apartments unless it’s some kind of luxury skyscraper. $2000/month for a nice two bedroom is easy, you could probably go lower than that and still be in a decent location.
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    I had a place in 老西门 that was about $3000, not a luxury skyscraper, but owned by a French landlord, I think the closer you are to large ex-pat populations, the more expensive.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Ya, if you are in the French Concession in Shanghai, it can get a bit pricey I guess. Beijing really has nothing like that, well I guess you could try living in Sanlitun or something.